Tfw there are actually people who think that salvation is through works

And you faggots have the gall to say atheists are "just in love with their sins". You're the faggot who refuses to take responsibility for your own actions,preferring to pretend that your magic space-jew absolves you of your own crapulence.

Christianity is such a revoltingly amoral religion.

muh fefes read sarty u fucking KEK

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

ALL have sinned. If you commit one sin you are already a transgressor and ineligible to heaven. One sin.

If you so much as looked at a woman with lust, you committed adultery and you are already condemned.

No, you "good" people (according to yourselves and according to man), you can't earn your way to heaven. Only by grace through faith in Christ Jesus can you get there.

>impress God
>self-conceit
>half-assed good
>You're the faggot
>refuses to take responsibility for your own actions
>free absolution

A lot of projection you've got going on there, satan.

Calm down. Read clearly.

The two posts you quoted are by two different anons. And yes, if you think yourself to be good, you are DEEPLY self-conceited.

Quote the right person next time

>Do what you wilt is the whole law, because Jesus already saved you

thanks satan

Why do you think I am Satan? I'm arguing for sola fide.

>And yes, if you think yourself to be good, you are DEEPLY self-conceited.

Putting words in capitals doesn't make them any more true.

Prove your statement, though. Prove conceit is overlayed on every act done in good intention.

Hebrews 12

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

This means that once you are saved, God will see to it that you get punished for your sins, whereas lots of unbelievers get away with their sinned that they committed their whole life
But its far better to be chastised on this earth and go to heaven, than to never be punished on this earth and go to hell for eternity.

>HURR

Except I live with and ow up to my failings, /you/ simply pawn them off on a dead jew. Scapegoating is an abominably immoral doctrine.

>Quote the right person next time

I did, moron. Learn how to read you useless sack of shit.

"muh faith alone" is an illusion. If you don't prepare your spirit for the state after death, you aint gonna be in a good place. This is basic metaphysics 101.

Its shame Protestantism did away with all aestheticism and metaphysics.

Because it seems to suggest how you live is completely irrelevant, so long as you accept Jesus is Lord and died for our sins.

It's not even saying sorry, it's almost like passing the buck of your actions onto Jesus so you can live scott-free. It doesn't seem to promote self growth or responsibility.

You're talking about yourself. The irony is ridiculous, but this is what happens when you tell people they can live in their bubbles without consequence. Their minds literally warp to the point of absolute delusion.

How do I pawn my sins off to Jesus? Quote where you got that implication.

OP here
I know you guys aren't smart enough to know which person to reply to in this thread or which person is replying to you, but the concept of salvation is so simple that even you can understand
John 3 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5 24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

>How do I pawn my sins off to Jesus?

By "repenting" and promising him you won't do it again. Of course, when you DO do it again, you just "repent" and promise not to do it again....

This is called "having your cake and eating it too", and is the main cause for your moral imbecility.

Matthew 19:17
"Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good;

Ephesians 2
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Psalm 52:1 Why boast you yourself in mischief, O mighty man?

What's the alternative? Sin and kill myself?
Or sin and be boastful and not-remoseful of those sins?

Which do you prefer, satan?

That is exactly how it works, yes. Whether that all life long is 21 years or 31 years or 81 years or 120 years, that is exactly how it works.

Your rhetorical question is amusing, because Christ has done all that is necessary to be done, has made all of the preparations necessary to be made, and has indeed already established your eternal dwelling place, whether it is in heaven or hell. He is indeed the author and finisher of salvation.

So which is it going to be?

Heaven or hell?

Yes, be papist and ignore the bible completely, and misunderstand what they tell you in "mass".

Roman 4
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Have you said out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead?

In the Western and Eastern Churches there is the sacrament of “Confession”, “Penance”, or “Reconciliation”. Algis Uzdaviny’s explains in his “Philosophy as Rite of Rebirth” that beginning with Egypt, and flowing into Hellenistic Philosophy, especially among the Stoics, that a particular pagan practice, as part of their method for initiation, ascent, and “returning to the primordial state”, included public confessions of their “sins” (for practical purposes, let us substitute the word “privation” for “sin”, as “sin” too has lost most of its meaning, signifying to contemporary minds silly sounding infractions against wanton formalism, such as eating meat on a Friday; whereas the Church had, and the Eastern Church still mostly does, regard sin on a “sliding scale”–that is, the spiritual damage of an act, or act of omission is proportional to the way in which it limits ones spiritual progress, which is why there once were “confessors”–elders advanced in spiritual gymnastics, and learned in life, who could assist one in assessing the impact of such matters. Ironically, while such a notion is repugnant to modern minds, they will spend fortunes on “therapists”, “life coaches”, and “councilors” to express their “inner demons”, in exchange for nothing but more profane information, and drugs that provide no remedy!).

>Works help, of course,

Who? Who do your works help?

>good acts are only done to boast, therefore, nothing is good and no good should be attempted

This is what the blackened hearts truly believe

Until you come to grips with your own fallen and depraved nature, and stop making excused for yourself, you'll never understand why God needed to die in order to save you.

No, that's nonsense. Jesus paid the price of your sins; there's double jeopardy attached.

The chastisement/discipline God provides his children is direction and guidance.

You're so off. See .

You need to repair your spirit after you sin. "muh faith" isn't enough.

Your brothers and sisters.

I don;t make excuses for myself and am very well aware of my animal nature, thank you YOU'RE the one who refuses to accept your own nature, instead pretending that you have an invisible magic jew who will make all the bad things go away. It's pathetic and utterly immoral.

>YOU'RE the one who refuses to accept your own nature, instead pretending that you have an invisible magic jew who will make all the bad things go away. It's pathetic and utterly immoral.

I think your fresh reddit ass just likes repeating that line, when the people you're speaking to are in favour of works and repentance.

Patience is finished with you. gb2kys.

That's the entire nature of his sacrifice. And as pictured in the sacrifice of the lamb.

You take your perfect spotless lamb to the priest, and he inspects it so see that it is acceptable. Then you put your hand on the lamb's head, the lamb's throat is slit, and bleeds out.

Your sins transfer into the lamb, and the lamb's innocence transfers into you. This is atonement, and it is good for a short time, say one year.

When Jesus sacrificed himself as the Lamb of God, he died once and for all. Anyone who wants to can go to the cross and put their hand on his head, and as he is there dying, you can have his righteousness imputed to you.

I am righteous not through my own actions, but because the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to me by my belief and confession that Jesus is who he says he is; that he is God, died for the sins of the world, and rose from the dead on the third day as he said he would.

You may not like how that works; you may not like the bloodletting and scapegoating.

But without it, you die for your sins. Period. You spend an eternity in a dark lake of fire surrounded by other evil men and demons, forever.

Take the pardon. Go to the cross. Have your sins nailed to the cross with my sins, and the sins of all those who have ever lived, and believe.

That's all he's asking you to do.

Believe.

Yes, all pagan religions have man made rites and rituals to attempt to clean people up to the point where they can behold God.

They all fail.

Which is why Jesus says "come as you are; though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white as snow."

I'm not off; people thinking they can confess to pedophiles and be clean are off. And completely ignorant on how sins are forgiven, and by whom, and when, and for whom, and why.

Indeed.

So let's get saved first, and then after we're saved, walk through the good deeds God lays before us, for the betterment of our brothers and sisters.

But let us be sure that we are saved, first.

You're mistaken about your nature. You do not have an animal nature. You are a human being made in the image of God, not an animal descended from a missing link.

And no, until you approach Jesus and his holiness, you have no idea how filthy human beings are. It hurts. I'm not going to sugar coat it for you. Approaching Jesus will hurt. When you throw yourself on the Rock, you will be broken. But you will be in the hands of your Creator who is going to make something better out of what you give him than you are now.

But not approaching him will pulverize you.

Of course it's only through Grace that you are saved. No real Christian would deny that.

When we Catholics talk about works, we are talking about the whole "Faith without works is dead" part in James. Also, Christ himself said that if you love him, you will keep his commandments. Loving your neighbors as yourself is a work. Believing as a child would is a work.

Simply sitting back and saying "OH I just love Christ! I'm saved!" Is not enough. Sanctification and Justification are not the same, and I encourage you to read up on the difference between the two.

Well said brother

Not sure if you've ever been to Confession, but that's not how it works.

Christ said "Go forth and Sin no more." You don't get to repeatedly commit the same sin and walk it off. Penance increases with each occasion of sin.

On top of that, you cannot judge the state of a man's soul. A man may truly feel disgusted with his actions and be repentant, but may be unable to control his actions due to a defect in his will.

>"Faith without works is dead" part in James.

You've been taught this wrong your entire life.

First, I have no idea why you think James and Paul are anywhere near the same level. James was not a disciple, not an apostle; he didn't even believe his own big brother was the messiah until after the resurrection.

And then when suddenly he's a big shot because his brother was Jesus, now he lords it over the new church by preaching the gospel in the Temple. With no problem from the Jews. The Jews had no problem with James the half brother of Jesus preaching in the temple. And why?

Because James was Judaizing people. He was doing the exact same things that the Jews were. Take a mikvah, a baptism, and wash away your past, and start new. And refresh your dedication to follow the Law of Moses. And keep kosher. And go to the synagogues to hear Moses preached.

When Paul taught the gospel, the real gospel, the Jews hated him. They would not let him speak, they ran him out of town, frequently stoning and beating and imprisoning him. Because he was not Judaizing people.

Paul was telling people the same thing Jeremiah tried to tell them; the New Testament God is going to make with Judea is completely unlike the Old Covenant.

So when James says "show me your works, and I'll believe you have faith", he's talking about the WORKS OF THE LAW. Keeping the sabbath, tithing, all of the things the Jews of his age were doing, but for the animal sacrifices.

When Paul wrote of his meeting with the so-called pillars of the faith, Peter James and John, he said that they added NOTHING to his faith. And said in very plain language that if you wanted to follow James and pretend to be Jew Lite, or New Jew, that was a different gospel than the gospel Jesus told Paul about, and was therefore accursed.

If you want to be accursed under the Law, follow James in your Church of Peter as you have been, and be accursed.

Thank you.

Did the woman Jesus tell that to ever sin again?

Do you have any concept that Jesus was teaching the Old Covenant, the Law of Moses?

That he directly referred to it during that incident?

If you think Christians "go and sin no more", you have no deep relationships with any Christians. I am no more capable of living a sinless life now than before I was saved.

And if you think telling a pedophile how you wanked to your aunt leads to forgiveness, you are an absurd person who should never tell anyone about anything religious, ever.

Why is James in the bible if its not valid?

You got to notice that in the book of James, he is constantly referring to the reader as 'brethren', meaning that its written to people who are already saved
And if you get saved, and you do any works, then you did not use the Holy Spirit within you to do any works for Christ
This means that your faith is dead, like a tree without fruit
The book of James is written to people who are already saved, telling them to get off their asses and do some work for the Lord

Because it really is a letter James really wrote.

You have to contort the ever loving hell out of it to get it to say the truth, because it is true in exactly one instance.

When James says "show me your works", you have only one way that makes sense.

Jesus said earlier that the work of the Father was to believe in Jesus. So if that is the work that you show James, then you will be correct, and James will be correct, because that is indeed believing in the saving power of Jesus Christ.

If you take James to mean "the old and new covenants are not only compatible, but must both be practiced", you do not understand the Law, at all, nor its failure to ever make anyone righteous, not even once.

Just think about this for a moment.

The Jews had no problem with the gospel according to James.

The Jews killed Jesus for the gospel according to Jesus.

The Jews killed Paul (yes, I believe he died and was raised) for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

See how one of those things is not like the other? One of those things just isn't the same?

>And if you get saved, and you do *NOT* do any works
Meant to say this, sorry

Especially in that day and time, when the Temple was about to be demolished, Rome was about to attack, and 10 waves of persecution were about to be launched.

If you didn't stand up to be counted then, your faith and salvation meant less to you than your life.

Oh man. This is some prime heresy right here.

"JAMES IS BULLSHIT BUT PAUL IS RIGHT!" If the New Testament is divinely inspired, how the hell can James be wrong? If he is wrong how can you be sure other parts of scripture are correct?

This is what happens when your arrogance takes control. You think you know better than 1700 years of church precedent and history.

I see how your purposefully misconstruing biblical events to support your ridiculous interpretation of the bible.

Paul was killed by Nero, not jews

>he Jews had no problem with the gospel according to James.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James,_brother_of_Jesus#Death

>According to Josephus James was stoned to death by Ananus ben Ananus.[77]

>Clement of Alexandria relates that "James was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple, and was beaten to death with a club".[20]

>Hegesippus cites that "the Scribes and Pharisees placed James upon the pinnacle of the temple, and threw down the just man, and they began to stone him, for he was not killed by the fall. And one of them, who was a fuller, took the club with which he beat out clothes and struck the just man on the head".[20]
Details

It sounds like they had a few problems with his theology.

I told you the one instance in which that line from James is correct.

If something is true under one condition, it is not false.

If you think James and Paul did not have a conflict, your study of the NT is non-existent.

And you're on the side not of the greatest apostle to the entire world, but Jesus' half-brother who is clearly and obviously Judaizing people.

Paul was ultimately killed by Nero.

Paul died and was raised before he was killed by Nero, and spoke of his experiences in the third heaven.

So no, I am not misconstruing anything. I am saying when the bible says they beat Paul so as to death, it was to death. But death is no barrier for Jesus; he simply raised Paul and Paul continued on his journeys.

Yes, James was martyred as well as Paul. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Perhaps like Peter, James' understanding of his error, and his growing understanding of the New Covenant, caused him 10 to 20 years later to realize that Paul had been right all along.

You're again omitting the part in the bible where James is teaching in the temple.

Without any problems.

You're kind of a lying sack of shit, you know?

No it doesn't, it suggests that the only thing that can save one is faith. The rest is glaze, so to speak.
Everybody, including oneself.

But that does not save. One could, theoretically at least, kill every last person and still be saved while many if not most victims are not.

>just ignore what the bible says.
This is what antichrist papist actually believe.