Communism

I see, well thanks though user.
I'm not very left wing (in fact i used to follow marxist ideals, switched to right wing conservatism, went down into anarcho christianity) but now i find myself in the center of the political compass. I most certainly don't believe in redestribution of the wealth but higher taxes to pay for things such as good healthcare are important to me.

In short i'm mostly asking to see if people can tell me something i don't know or thought differently before. I support populist movements but with the left and right wings both seemingly collapsing into authoritarianism it's hard to find solid ground in the political world where there are no wrongs.

I still stand on Tolstoy's ideal that i should follow what i believe without having to follow everything from said affiliation but it's hard these days to like communism what with its degeneracy (mostly in the united states aparently)

Is there an author or philosopher you would recommend to help me in this confusing political world?

Yeah, I've jumped sides about four times in my life. At one point I was very exactly what you are at the moment, at another I was very critical of the stance of religion in society(still am kind of), and another time I'd rather not talk about.

At the moment I am indeed a dreadful commie, but I have problems with my ideology because of how improbable and hopeful it is. As any self respecting person, letting yourself be spoon fed beliefs is a horribly dumb and regrettable mistake. I am obviously left leaning and liberal, but I despise Islam, have no problem with strict immigration, and other right ideals. It is very concerning how absolute the American political compass is these days.

Well, in the author department, it would really be up to what you're looking for. Rosa Luxembourg is perfect on learning more about the final stage of the transition to communism, definitely.

What do you mean by, "but it's hard these days to like communism what with its degeneracy (mostly in the United States apparently)? I am having trouble with your grammar, not to be man or anything.

Mean*

Mobile is hard.

>High schoolers have a stronger grasp of basic economics than the average hipster SJW faggot
Really makes you think

Communism now is communism then. It's the same existential rage of prophecy and destiny: treachery, redemption, utopia and we all live happily ever after. And it's always soon and because capitalism is always in its final stage.

Soon, gomrade.

Communism is basically just the idea of distributing stuff to people with equal rations or taking from a common pool of goods/services instead of using money to get things from other people. For example, for food there may be something like a town dining hall where you go to get fed, and for exercise a town gym that anybody can use.

In terms of work, generally everybody will be asked to contribute some portion of the time to maintaining the facilities of the town/state/province/whatever, say everybody in town works about 4 hours a day to keep the food growing, the energy working, etc.

Imagine a hippie commune on a grand scale and you've got communism basically. In modern theory a lot of people assume all of the stuff people would normally work on is automated, and people can dedicate more of their time to leisure activity.

Imagine all of society like a college, a monastery, a jail, or a psych ward, but with more freedom and fewer bills.

utopian faggotry, prototypical of people living in communes. lenin rallied the peasants under such nonsense and then gave them the slip with an otherwise banal dictatorship. everyone else did the same.

>It is very concerning how absolute the American political compass is these days.
huge understatement my friend. political discourse is on it's deathbed and violence in politics is becoming regularized more and more. add to that the tendency for the internet to create hyper polarized echo chambers, and you have a crisis looming on the horizon.

Am the big poster above, this. A lot of revolutions were just ploys to gain power, not actually change.

I wouldn't say the revolutions themselves were, but you get a lot of "Napoleons" that'll sweep to power in the chaos of a revolution and subvert some of the original goals

Of course not the revolutions; everybody behind the leaders believed in the cause. The leaders were often malicious. I.e., Fidel Castro, Deng, Mao, Stalin, e t c

Rosa Luxemburg? i see, but wouldn't she easily pass as one of Marx's "Bourgeoie Socialist"?

What i mean by the degeneracy in the US is basically pic related, anything and everything to do with modern left wing movements such as their sheep-like mentallity, hypocricy, and utter violence on anyone who slightly disagrees with them.
Communism has changed a lot, what i'm not exactly asking for is the means not the ends (those have stayed the same)

Are there big differences in the ways people thought about communism back then to now? Would you reccomend something to read about this subject?
I agree with some of these things but always disagreed with the view that all work should be paid equaly and/or all are paid with social services instead. I like Smithian economics in that regard only not in the mass industry.

Technically isn't today's society basically like a college compared to how it used to be? Don't we already have all the privileges, syndicates and social services 1800s communists dreamt of?

What do you think user
shroo, is there better ideals than communism to you?

unfortunatelly this, too much this.

>We owe all these nice things we like to X
>We must fight on, we owe it to X who fought for these nice things we don't have

i meant this pic,
working peasant girls are just fine

Rosa Luxembourg represents the dedication and devotion to the communist idea. Every communist at this moment is a socialist as well because no communist government exists and to create one there must be a stage of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, or state-owned means of production. It is not possible to turn an entire country stateless overnight.

Now, Rosa was part of six different socialist political parties: that is a feat of its own, then you take into account that they spanned over three different nations. She had something going for her. She was clearly dedicated to pushing Karl's idea.

And yes, the American left is quite literally retarded. I myself, grudgingly, support the man that punched Richard Spencer, and well, anything that hampers a man like Donald Trump I am in favour for, simply because he is a capitalist in power. We almost had the DAPL cancelled, but through executive order he reinstated it. At no point had I ever felt such hate for a man than that moment. I wonder how many favors banks owe him now.

>Capitalism is bad and hateful. I'm against it.
>I mean look, hatred and bad isn't really that bad because capitalism is bad and Trump owes favors to banks
>I mean, favors aren't bad, bad is worst then bad banks and that bad.
>fuck it. Kill em all.

Sorry, what you said about Rosa flew straight over my head.

Yes, Rosa is indeed a bourgeois socialist. In a sense, this is very communist thought, although the most hypothetical and hopeful version of it. She wanted smooth transition by simply not having a working class at all, which soon could be very easily accomplished with all the automaton nowadays; the extremely productive point where society no longer needs money or social class because everything is automated and there is no need to oppress. Rosa obviously didn't imagine it that way, but that was more or less her final goal.

Why are you associating the french revolution so strongly with communism
The french revolution spawned all sorts of ideologies, mainly social liberalism and this isn't necessarily linked to communism

What. I said banks owe favors to Trump, not vice versa.
Capitalism isn't bad and hateful, it's just what the majority of the world has to work with. The only reason why I hate capitalists is because their greed overlooks the well being of others; DAPL, the entire middle east, businesses keeping manufacturing in China where they can use child labor etc.
That said, we shouldn't resist change; chances to reform give us all an opportunity to grow as a society.

Would you know of any writtings from earlier on than that? (perhaps some socialist authors from the early 1800s?)

I would read some of Rosa's things but as it stands i can't see her in a nother way than the "I'm a left-wing, vegetarian, pacifict and therefore i'm better than you and everyone is wrong but me but i know this because i had an easy life not like those patriarchal solder man eww"

I simply can't like her, i understand the plight of the socialists in various eras but she to me just looks like a snobby girl virtue signaling.

I see a reocurring theme when people speak of communism and it is the idea that a government should be taken away from the land. I strongly disagree with this and love the way americans have established a wonderful republic in the 1770s, i love the French idea of the communes, administrating and helping the needs of the local people at its discretion and i also very much love Codreanu's "nest system" in the 1930s.

Also, why would you support the man who punched someone you disagree with? I am not american but i like Donald J. Trump and although i didn't support Barrack Obama on all his views i still believe his right to power is a testament to freedom of speech and without the ability to have differing opinions we would not only have violence on others but (no offence) people would think it's ok just because they disagree with the victims and therefore think like brainwashed nazi citizens.
i see i see,
I honestly don't like the automation of industry (nor the mass mobilization of human resources) because i love my irrealistic 'craftsman's economy' such as was in england before the industrial revolution.

I dislike the machines taking over jobs at McDonald's the same way i dislike illegals taking college jobs away from actual college students, but this is mostly because i don't trust technology.
Oh, didn't realise there was a difference, could you tell me more about social liberalism?

When I said social liberalism it was mainly to specify the social aspect of the liberalism that spread after the french revolution ("social liberalism" isn't an actual ideology)
The reason is that liberalism was already very present in the UK at the time, but it was during the french revolution that the "all men are equal" and the "divine right to rule of the people" truly spread, thus creating a wave of liberalism that spread through europe and mainly focused on the political and social aspects, rather than simply economic which was the case in the UK prior to the revolution

This also allowed for the uprising in the nationalism that arguably Napoleon was responsible for, which later on shaped europe into what it has become today

Communism didn't exactly start with Marx, but as a coherrent movement he was mostly responsible since he was one of the first and the most famous to properly write a communist manifesto (the first iirc but I'm not certain)
I'm not very educated on this topic but Marx had a very specific idea of the french revolution, though I can't remember if he said it was mainly a proletariat or bourgeois revolution (in reality it evolved very quickly so you can't actually easily distinguish proletariat from bourgeois as much as Marx likes to)

I'd also like to specify that liberalism is COMPLETELY different to communism, and is not inherently left or right wing since it depends heavily on the period you're studying (unlike what americans think liberalism does not traditionally support welfare or increased security)

Writings that took power away from bourgeoisie and gave it to the people?
Magna Carta is the only thing that comes to mind.

I see what you're getting at with the whole snob thing. I just overlooked it and listened more to what she was trying to push, instead of thinking about virtue signaling.

>I see a reoccurring theme when people speak of communism and it's the idea that a government should be taken away from the land.
Well, communism literally is the non-existence of class, state, or business, so I would hope it were a reoccurring theme. From what I've gathered here, I think you're very "good" thinking person. More on that; you are all for financial stability for all, right? You wish to take the system in place and perfect it, by making it more like the French communes where autonomy and collectivism bolstered the strength of the community, while allowing a free market. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What this is is a very realistic, good way of going through with it, except big business of today(corporation, no single owner) almost makes this impossible.

As to why I support the punching of Spencer, is because he literally advocates for ethnic cleansing. That's not freedom of speech, that's a threat. People like that need to be put in their place before they get powerful; Hitler was not put in his place and he lead a country to commit one of the worst mistakes of mankind.

I do not support violence against people I disagree with. I do not support violence against you, Donald trump, or anyone else really, save for murderers and rapists.

I hope that's clear.

nice, the liberal ideals of the revolution are actually exactly what i'm looking for, i absolutely love the declaration of the rights of man and citizen and other such progressive documents from the time but i can't find much on this other than the jacobins fighting with the girondins and both hating each other and fighting for good boy points.

I'm about to finish a book on the revolution but the lack of solid statements as in what their beliefs are is frustrating.

Do you know any good philosophers from the time who supported the revolution?
absolutely right, a big misconception but one of my ideas behind this thread was (to put it my way) "what does left-wing socialism do diferently than mine?" ya feel?

>Magna Carta
gonna look into it thx

When it comes to Rosa i know i'm being prejudiced and judging her on first (and second impressions at this point) so i'll take my veil of autism off for a moment and read what she has to say.

>you are all for financial stability for all, right? You wish to take the system in place and perfect it, by making it more like the French communes where autonomy and collectivism bolstered the strength of the community, while allowing a free market
Precicely, and i know about the large corporations making this impossible but at this point what can one do (even with a small, relatively succesful business) against such goliaths.

If that guy unironically supported genocide then yeah, he kinda deserved it. I really hate how a lot of hatred is being spread these days but in the end 'ITS JUST MEMES'

Last point was clear thx, i was afraid because you were starting to sound like the college campus liberals who support the beating of opposing protesters but i was wrong i see

>Do you know any good philosophers from the time who supported the revolution
The revolution was the beginning of a huge social transformation in france, as far as I know there wasn't much of literary or philosophical work during the revolution itself

However I do strongly recommend reading works by/about philosophers/writers during the enlightenment in france (les lumières), such as Rousseau, Voltaire and Diderot

Voltaire wrote some very enjoyable and accessible works, he was one of the best satirists at the time
Read either his short stories or a work like "Candide", they're rather funny and insightful for what kind of thought allowed the french revolution, which ultimately was about removing the social hierarchy of the aristocracy and clergy

Ultimately, the french revolution was mainly about removing the "ancien régime" which is why it's no longer present in Europe, with a few exceptions (notably the UK that had a rather exceptional political transition)
Movements such as socialism and later on communism emerged from this radical change that grew over europe, however the french revolution did not create these movements, rather it allowed them to emerge a few decades later

Have a nice night/day, mister/misses. I've got to get to sleep, midnight here. I think there was another thing like the Magna Carta, called the English Parliament, it was similar to there bull of rights. I've probably misnamed it.

shroo, i had a hard time finding works during the time specifically, i've read some from Voltaire and was told before i should look into him and so i think i finally will, thx also for the others.

Good night, friend.
it's 3am here i should sleep too but i probably won't because i'm in the mood of reading Faust.
I'll also see what the brits have to say, sleep well there bud.