So... Any Mormons on Veeky Forums?

Mormon time.

it's very easy to think very little of mormons, theirs is the largest divergence from anything that can be called christian, and of course it's basically founded by a conman

Yes, Latter-day Saint (also known as Mormon to gentiles) here.

What's up?

Religions and cults are the same stuff.

Poor bait.

You two must not know what "cult" means, choosing to believe the normie definition. A cult is simply a group of people devoted to something. Catholics have cults to Saints.

He's technically right though.

They are though, just because they haven't been LARPing for thousands of years do not make them any less legitimate.

Mormons believe in the MORMON JEEZUZ

JOSEPH SMIIIITH

Damn that nigga in the green is dabbing hard

0/10

What's your argument exactly?

You best be pure Russian ancestry or carry a Russian Birth Cert/Passport or I'm literally going to laugh my ass off at you.

And incase you are; stay the fuck out of Lithuania, Putin. We can be friends if you do

He is absolutely right though, ya dingus. The only difference between a religion and a cult is how socially acceptable it is to be part of it.

He's religious and doesn't like it when people point out the thin line between his form of belief and forms of belief he thinks he is better than.

>still trying to troll this hard

I like Mormons.

I actually kind of like their stories about America being colonised by ancient Israelites, it would make for a fun historical fantasy setting. Shame they're nutcases who actually believe in it.

What do Mormons think of McM*llin

Not one but studied it seriously for about 6 months. I might be able to answer some of your questions

I think you're the one b8ing us.

Mormons are complete cucks so they love him.

>I was damn near close to converting

You're not a Catholic, mate.

he lost in utah by a large margin so that can't be true

"ex mormon" here I grew up in the chuch. I live in Utah county right next to BYU.
I realized it was all bullshit at 13 left and nver looked back.

Nothing against mormons. Magority are great people.
But the Mormon church itself its nothing but a corporation disguised as a "religiion".

Joseph Smith and the old gang plagiarized and dissected the New testament and made there own shitty version that is an embarrassment to Christians.

He was a convicted charlatan. thief and con man and not to mention a polygamist

People will deny this

top lads

I was a mormon once, but i love women more than i love larping about christ coming to the americas so i quit.

Mormon is wrong. But it's only as wrong as other Christian religion or Scientology.

It's like the fact that it's so ridiculous means that Mormons don't take it seriously and just focus on being good people, whereas other Christian sects are fucking autists about everything and do stupid shit like starting civil wars over semantics.

dont forget about us greeks

I suspect most Mormons don't read Doctrine and Covenants very closely because a lot of the dodgy stuff is in there.

What amazes me the most about the church is how fucking lazy it is. They barely try to hide how awful they are, what with the tithing, forcing members to buy special clothes, etc.

>I do admit though I was damn near close to converting
Are you learning-disabled?

I'm currently reading The Book of Mormon. I'm in the Book of Mosiah.
So far, I've read so many absurdities that I can't believe that someone actually converts after reading it, it is so absurd and obviously fake.
And yes, I'm reading in English, as "translated" by Joseph Smith.

My theory is that people marry not because they believe it, but because the mormon church is a safe way to get a stable marriage with a nice woman with good family values. The Molly Mormons.

They have some nice art tho

This is actually some really cool mesoamerican/bronze age mesopotamian fusion fanart, but yeah, I can't believe they actually take it seriously either, especially with what we know about archeology.

>and of course it's basically founded by a conman

So it's a religion? :^)

>what with the tithing, forcing members to buy special clothes, etc
this literally sounds like any other religion.
how is this bad again?
at least they force you to go out and help people for two years.

At that point the only real absurdity is the idea of transatlantic travel.

>My theory is that people marry not because they believe it, but because the mormon church is a safe way to get a stable marriage with a nice woman with good family values. The Molly Mormons.

Mormonism is far too demanding for people to choose it simply as a way to meet women. Mormonism works by focusing on personal experiences with God then constantly repeating them in a friendly and supportive environment through testimonies.

> especially with what we know about archeology.

The archeology is the least damming part of Mormonism

basic rule I examine religions:

was the founder after worldly wealth and power or not?

>mohammed
warlord
"Allah told me your wife has to sleep with me"

>joseph smith
"Jehovah told me your wife has to sleep with me"

>jesus
"“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.....If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?"

Its not that suprising, back during pagan times plenty of conmen scammed people to give free stuff to them through religious nonsense. Some christians saw themselves as better since they tried to put a stop to this but conmen simply subverted christianity for their own gain. Catholics own failure to keep conmen out lead to protestants which led to more conmen to appear through protestant offshoots.

>was the founder after worldly wealth and power or not?

Why do the two need to be exclusive?

>"“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.....If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?"

Doesn't your test kind of work poorly with Old testament prophets?

This is the most autistic thread i have ever seen on Veeky Forums

The hell was your first clue?

It isnt surprising, any position of power draws in those who are most apt to misuse it. Protestants however follow the teachings of Christ (ideally), and should examine the motives of those who claim to be an authority.

>Why do the two need to be exclusive?

Not sure what you mean, they don't have to be exclusive, someone can be after wealth AND power. Or do you mean whats wrong with someone trying to be a religious authority and also after wealth/power? I thinks thats self-explanatory, as in they aren't doing it for the right reasons.

>Doesn't your test kind of work poorly with Old testament prophets?

It works fine, which is why I am not Jewish. Jesus was the fulfillment of a new covenant with God.

>Doesn't your test kind of work poorly with Old testament prophets?

I mean, I'm not sure what Abraham would gain from sacrificing his son. If you aren't religious you would argue he's schizophrenic, but not ambitious

> I thinks thats self-explanatory, as in they aren't doing it for the right reasons.

But that seems like you are holding your understanding of God above the those of prophets.

Why is it that God has to have messengers who dont get wealth or women out of it? Even Abraham followed his callings for what your system wouldnt consider right.

>It works fine, which is why I am not Jewish. Jesus was the fulfillment of a new covenant with God.

Dont you see the problem here though, Jesus's legitimacy is based entirely on fulfilling the prophecies of those figures. If you deny that they were divinely guided by God their you deny Jesus.

Just a reminder that all the events "recorded" in the Book of Mormon never actually happened. The book is a complete fucking lie. It's nothing but a shitty Bible fanfic.

Were you there? No?

Then you need to cite your sources and peer reviewed studies desu

>I mean, I'm not sure what Abraham would gain from sacrificing his son. If you aren't religious you would argue he's schizophrenic, but not ambitious

Remember how he got that son in the first place? Following the voices he heard got him at least 2-3 young wives or concubines which is pretty sweet for a 75 year old man.

lol

Why not? Jesus clearly has.

there's this gold plate I'm reading out of a kaleidoscope that tells me I don't have to, and that your mother was a whore

>Why is it that God has to have messengers who dont get wealth or women out of it? Even Abraham followed his callings for what your system wouldnt consider right.

Thinking about it, I concede some points. Prophets are human, so I guess they must get something out of it, whereas Jesus would be a special case, "son of God" instead of "normal dude who talks to God". I guess I'm just more lenient on OT prophets because they led to Jesus.

I just don't see any revolutionary change/addition that warranted a Joseph Smith or Mohammed, in the way that Jesus was needed

I still think its a fairly good bullshit meter though

Other mainline religions don't fill visitor centers with beautiful women from a large variety of countries to hound you about how great Mormonism is and how you should convert.
It is run like a door to door marketing company.

Established religions:
>Jesus
Ayy, love thy neighbour senpai.

>Mohammed
Persians, I'm CIA.

>Moses
God says to stop being such pussies.

>Buddha
Stop wanting shit.

>Ninigi
Ayy lmao.

>Confucius
Follow the divine order of things, 'kay?

>Laozi
Confucius needs to chill the fuck out.

>Zoroaster
Pray to fire and bang your sister, it's what God does.

>Vedas
If you're enough of a dick, you get to be a god for thousands of years.

American """religions""":

>L. Ron Hubbard
Pay me 3 million dollars and I'll suck out your alien ghosts.

>Joseph Smith
Native Americans are just evil Jews, let me bang your wife.

You realise Joseph was the steward of Egypt, hoarded grain then enslaved the entire population when a famine hit in exchange for feeding them. Yet he's meant to be a hero.

Genesis 47:13-21

>13 Now there was no food in all the land, for the famine was very severe. The land of Egypt and the land of Canaan languished because of the famine. 14 Joseph collected all the money to be found in the land of Egypt and in the land of Canaan, in exchange for the grain that they bought; and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh’s house. 15 When the money from the land of Egypt and from the land of Canaan was spent, all the Egyptians came to Joseph, and said, “Give us food! Why should we die before your eyes? For our money is gone.” 16 And Joseph answered, “Give me your livestock, and I will give you food in exchange for your livestock, if your money is gone.” 17 So they brought their livestock to Joseph; and Joseph gave them food in exchange for the horses, the flocks, the herds, and the donkeys. That year he supplied them with food in exchange for all their livestock. 18 When that year was ended, they came to him the following year, and said to him, “We can not hide from my lord that our money is all spent; and the herds of cattle are my lord’s. There is nothing left in the sight of my lord but our bodies and our lands. 19 Shall we die before your eyes, both we and our land? Buy us and our land in exchange for food. We with our land will become slaves to Pharaoh; just give us seed, so that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”

>20 So Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh. All the Egyptians sold their fields, because the famine was severe upon them; and the land became Pharaoh’s. 21 As for the people, he made slaves of them from one end of Egypt to the other.

Thinking about it, I concede some points. Prophets are human, so I guess they must get something out of it, whereas Jesus would be a special case, "son of God" instead of "normal dude who talks to God". I guess I'm just more lenient on OT prophets because they led to Jesus.

The problem is that your same reasoning works just as well to justify Mormonism (indeed I see Mormons who use it). In that the rather questionable lives and prophecies of figures like Smith and Brigham-Young are acceptable because of the prophets and faith that follows them (Mormonism being unique in that their church is still lead by actual prophets in their belief set)

>I just don't see any revolutionary change/addition that warranted a Joseph Smith or Mohammed, in the way that Jesus was needed

Both were warranted by new prophecies and interventions by God, with both making claims (both in their holy text and without) regarding why God deemed it necessary to do so in that way. Its similar to how Christians made arguments for a messiah different to the warrior type figure who would not change anything doctrine wise expected by the Jews of his time.

>I still think its a fairly good bullshit meter though

I do as well especially when you combine it with whether the groups practices require you to isolate yourself from non adherants/ make you reliant on the groups hierarchy.

However whilst this does protect me from cults it

1. Limits Gods legitimacy by own standards of what a prophet should be like.

2.Generally means rejecting most religions - and all the main abrahamic ones- unless I do as you do and create special and arbitrary exemptions.

3.Gives automatic legitimacy to religions whose origins arent documented. For instance we know nothing about the lives of the men and women who founded the original pagan thoughts of Europe and the Americas or even early "heresies" - hence they by default can seem like angels compared to a lot of modern religions-.

bump

>At that point the only real absurdity is the idea of transatlantic travel.

Nope, at that point whitey jews were becoming nigger.
At that point, they already described animals that aren't natively present in the Americas
At that point, a prophet predicted the coming of Joseph Smith and the church he would raise
At that point a prophet predicted the name and the life of Jesus Christ centuries before he was born in Galilee.

There was a lot of inconsistencies. If you believe this shit, you must be doing some real effort to delude yourself

>The archeology is the least damming part of Mormonism
believe whatever you want, you can't change the facts

Countersignaling Orthodox detected

>Nope, at that point whitey jews were becoming nigger.

How are jews acting violently absurd? The whole old testament is full of that.

>At that point, they already described animals that aren't natively present in the Americas

When Greeks encountered the Hippo they named it the water horse despite how vastly different the two are, likewise the Spanish refered to the bladed clubs of Aztecs as swords in their accounts it makes perfect sense that when Smith was translating an ancient document when introduced to new creatures or things the first impulse is to place them under already existing labels. Indeed as the book of Mormon progresses its clear that Nephites were dealing with a new kind of animal given how they used them.

>At that point, a prophet predicted the coming of Joseph Smith and the church he would raise
At that point a prophet predicted the name and the life of Jesus Christ centuries before he was born in Galilee.

At this point you are being a tad intellectually dishonest as the point of these were to show the prophetic understanding of Lehi and Nephi. What you are doing would be akin to saying Jesus must be fake because hes fulfilling all the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament.

>There was a lot of inconsistencies.
Only one you have raised is with respect to the animals and even then there are plausible explanations.

>If you believe this shit, you must be doing some real effort to delude yourself believe whatever you want, you can't change the facts

I don't believe it, Im only pointing out that your arguments against it are rather vapid and weak.

You create a special a harsher standard for Mormon thought and read their scripture under the assumption it was incorrect by default - not even attempting to consider that in its almost 200 years of existence people might have provided answers to these.

Its rather telling that you neglected what was arguable the most important part of my post

Adding on you forget to respond with what was probably the most important part of my post when it came to understanding the mindset and why people are Mormons at all

>Mormonism is far too demanding for people to choose it simply as a way to meet women. Mormonism works by focusing on personal experiences with God then constantly repeating them in a friendly and supportive environment through testimonies.