Alexander & Temujin

While they were brilliant, Greek civilization and culture has been proven to be much more influential and longstanding.

>Temujin was from an inferior culture and dragged down the development of superior cultures

Not so superior then

because of racism

Slavery is literally forbidden by Zoroastrianism

The mongols pillaged cities, libraries, and destroyed to kill time

Name 1 good thing mongols brought to the conquered lands

Influential doesn't necessarily mean better

Just look at the world today

This.

Macedonia was irrelevant like Sparta in other areas aside from military. They were arguably less civilized than the Romans at the time even.

Anime

>Influential

>Longstanding

Only because it was " revived " by 18th century LARPers who was obsessed with Greek civilzation and was convinced Muh ancestors built it

The ultimate WE WAZ

>Macedonia
>not hellenic
Culture was all that mattered at the time, many greeks from city-states looked up to Macedonia as a force to unite Greece and stop the infighting

It turned them into bodypillow-fucking weebs. Try again

Romans >>> M*cedonians

Macedonia was inhabited be Geek people right?

Why were they considered other?

fvck off

They got banned from the olympics at one point IIRC

Do you not realize the effect Platonism has in almost every modern religion?

They used to speak a different language and were uncultured barbarians compared to the rest of Greece.

Macedonians were originally not greek, they are a different tribe, they adopted hellenic culture later

If it wasn't for them uniting Greece, hellenic culture would eventually vanish, as the city-states would fall to an asiatic power sooner or later

So Macedonians were like a Greek equivalent of the Irish...

No. The Romans would come into picture later. Macedonians didn't do anything except establish a bunch of shitty kingdoms in the middle of nowhere.

Both are shit and both are liked in their countries.

In this scenario Romans would look at greece with disgust and convert them to their culture, as it is macedonians who made greek culture releveant

Iron Maiden made songs about both so they are both remembered as great men

They were levys from all over the empire. Not unified in culture , language or faith.

Romans were being Hellenized to varying degrees for centuries before they decided to venture into Greece. That's what a double dose of Etruscan and Magna Graecian influence will do.

The Middle East is full of barred lands bcause Temujin chimpout, thats why.

Sushi.

Mongols invented firearms, bombs and other assorted explosives. All of that arrived in Europe through Mongol expansions.

Daily reminder that Alexander's imperial government collapsed instantly without him but Chinngis' system of taxes, trade policies, infrastructure programs, and adaptability of local government allowed his heirs to rule over the largest empire in history for nearly 200 years.

> Why is one remembered as great, and the other as horrible?

Because Alexander killed like 1 million people and the Mongols wiped out 40 million.

Alexander is judged by his sack and enslavement of Tyre or the burning of Persepolis, yet that was the average Tuesday for the Mongols.

They were like locusts, barely human.

> Mongols invented

lol no, they took it.

Wrong. Alexander's Empire was divided up among the diadochoi and survived for centuries after that.

And it's not about longevity, if it were then Chinese art would be the best in the world. When in reality it's pure shit.

>LARPers

Asian American femboy detected

- Roman Law.
- Trivium/Quadrivium system of education.
- Latin being lingua franca of the West for millenia.
- Roman Catholicism.
- Western Philosophy.
- Greco-Roman art and architecture.

I could go on and on Chang. Just put the damn wig and dress on.

>inferior culture
Persians didn't fuck boys until Islam, greeks did it since forever

>Superior culture
>Being so orientalized that supplicants aren't allowed to openly breath in front of the Padishah.

lol

Perspective.

I assure you Genghis Khan is still revered in Mongolia.

And Turkey

Alexander didn't have any (notable) children but Khan spread his seed and thus kept the empire in the hands of his family. Alexander's empire was split amongst his generals.

Persians also didn't have a notable philosopher, scientist, mathematician, or artist to speak of. Greeks had them since forever.

Blown the FUCK out.

Almost all of the "Islamic Golden Age" philosophers, mathematicans and artists were persians.

>post-Alexander
>post Islam
Exactly my point.

Didn't have, or didn't record? Big difference.

You have to remember that all this history was recorded by the Greeks, and that's pretty much all we have. There are very few primary resources from ancient Persia, it's all Greek.

>and that's pretty much all we have.

Recorded middle eastern history is much older.

If Persians didn't even record their own history, that automatically deducts major points from them being a "superior culture" to the Greeks.

>progeny are what sustains empires and not institutions

Congrats on drinking imperial coolaide.

I bet you think Zeus is the reason it rains

Didn't record, or didn't survive? Big difference.

>Alexander
>Spreading Roman law
>Spreading Latin
>Roman Catholicism
>Western philosophy

>I'm obviously full of shit but if I insult the masculinity of this other poster I can distract everyone from how retarded I am

Not from the Acheamenid Persians.

Mongols invented shit. They were thieves that looted and murdered, similar to Arabs and Turks

It's impossible for nothing at all to survive, especially not if it was even remotely influential. The closest we get to Persian philosophers pre-Islam are those who tried to reform Zoroastrianism again and again.

Ogedei, Guyug and Möngke ruled all of the empire even after Genghis Khans death and if Kublai didn't settle down in China they would have another Great Khan.

He said the influence of classical civilization was a LARP, I proved it wasn't.

>Western gentlemen

Is that what they call being gay now?

>egypt
>pile rocks on top of each other to worship a man claiming to be god

>mesopotamia
>get forcibly cucked by a man claiming to be god

>persia
>become a soldier to protect a man claiming to be god

>athenes
>democracy, philosophy, mathematics, drama, painting, sculpture

If greeks were so great then how come that they were one of the first nations to mass convert to a semitic religion that said jews are the chosen without a fight?

Jewish mindtricks are more powerful than western democracy.

Just look at the united states.

Persians did have records but they mostly focused on results rather than details or feelings.

Persians wrote history like a sports teams season record. Accurate but simple,boring, and dry.

Greeks wrote history like an athlete's autobiography. Very exciting because it's filled with drama and gossip, but it can be incredibly biased and sometimes unreliable.

>mongols
>inventing anything

the civilization you're looking for is China. In any case the mongols were less civilized than all 3 major groups they fought (europeans, muslims, and chinese) all of which were sedentary people's being invaded by nomadic savages.

And Alexander invaded the cradle of civilization (middle east) and put hundreds of thousands people into slavery.

Wow really makes you think.

LOL

Alexander invaded as the superior culture instilling superior values. This type of conquered is always well-liked by history in comparison to the type of conquerer who comes in with an inferior civilization and destroys the achievements of the superior culture. See: muslim conquests, horsefucker conquests, barbarian invasions of Rome, etc.

If you can't see the difference you're an idiot.

>superior culture

Greece wasn't superior to the middle east lol.
The middle east was superior to that hilly terrain and a collection of islands that calls itself Greece.

Writing was developed in the middle east.
The first mathematics were developed in the middle east (Egypt)
The first human rights were developed in the middle east. (Cyrus Cylinder)
The first fucking empire in the world was in the middle east (Akkadian Empire)

The only thing that Boyfuckers did better then them at the time was conquering and thats it.

Alexander:
>patron artists, poets, and philosophers
>restored Cyrus' tomb
>respected his subjects and adopted their traditions
>was open-minded, when he reached the Indus he picked up a bunch of Brahmin into his posse.
>treated Darius' mother and wife with intense suspect, that the former referred to him as son and cried upon his death
>forced Scytho-niggers into centrally planned cities, bringing civilization to the area without whiping them out
>was a hero to his troops, often being in the front lines and leading charges motivating them

Ghangis Khan
>just killed a lot of people without building anything in return
>despite collecting taxes, there's nothing notable in his home province that shows he ever built it up substantially.

>The first human rights were developed in the middle east. (Cyrus Cylinder)

>The Cylinder gained new prominence in the late 1960s when the last Shah of Iran called it "the world's first charter of human rights".
>The Cyrus Cylinder was dubbed the "first declaration of human rights" by the pre-Revolution Iranian government,[95]

Nice try, Mahmud.

Genghis Khan wasn't even the reason his tribe did so well.

Make me some Yoghurt and Tzaziki, mr. Aristoteles Papadopolous Megos.

Jebe Muwali and Subutai were put into their positions by Genghis, who knows where they would be without him.

not that guy
but just because a civilization was great and powerful at one time doesn't mean they'll be the best forever. Almost every major civilazation had their capital sacked at one point or another.

By the time Alexander came around the Persian empire was a shrinking shell of itself and suffering from internal revolutions and power struggles. The Macedonians had just conquered and united Greece with the most advanced and well trained military of that time. Philip and Alexander were both great military commanders and inspiring fair leaders to the people they conquered. While Darius III wasn't that great of a warrior and was hated by the people on the fringes of his empire.

Superior is a strong word but Macedonia was rising while Persia was falling.

>Writing was developed in the middle east.
And it wasn't used to write anything meaningful other than documenting tales / hymns at palaces and diplomatic treaties. Meanwhile only China and India can only rival Greece's literary tradition, but they also pale to the variety that Greece had and the fact that most of the shit (outside of hymns of-course) were just preserved and written out of individual interests, and not some King's court or by clergy.
>The first mathematics were developed in the middle east (Egypt)
And nothing notable besides for baby-tier mathematics that showed up independently elsewhere was developed there.

>The first human rights were developed in the middle east. (Cyrus Cylinder)
Propaganda. Cyrus cylinder doesn't contain such, you're just reiterating a myth pushed by the Shah to ward off allegations of human rights abuse: spiegel.de/international/world/falling-for-ancient-propaganda-un-treasure-honors-persian-despot-a-566027.html
>The first fucking empire in the world was in the middle east (Akkadian Empire)
and nothing notable came out of it with no lasting legacy. Akkad was completely forgotten until cuneiform was deciphered and Mesopotamia was anthropologically investigated.

>an Iranian craving superior Hellenic culture
lmao an age-old tradition

>Greece's literary tradition

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

>the literary history of Gilgamesh begins with five Sumerian poems about 'Bilgamesh' (Sumerian for 'Gilgamesh'), king of Uruk, dating from the Third Dynasty of Ur (circa 2100 BC).

>And nothing notable besides for baby-tier mathematics that showed up independently elsewhere was developed there.

They laid the foundations, greeks just took and improved it, if i remember right there was some egyptian Pharaoh that contributed to the building of Athens.

>and nothing notable came out of it with no lasting legacy.

Nothing notable came out of Greek states created by Alexanders generals in Asia.

Veeky Forumstorians like to wank about the importance and contributions of Greco-Bactrians kingdoms and alike and yet if you ask asians who live in those areas they don't know what the fuck they were, they only remember Alexander, but they have no problem explaining who the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians and Persians were.

>MUH GREEK STATES ARE REMEMBERED BY EVERYONE!

Except they aren't kek!

>We wuz PHILOSOPHERS, MATHEMATICIANS AND ALEXANDERS!

But today we are the slaves of the EU and the Turks and we only make Yoghurt and Tzaziki now.

>We wuz ZOROASTRIANS, CONQUERORS AND CYRUSES!

But today we are the slaves of the Islamic Republic and the Arabs and we only make pilaf and kebab now.

you keep dodging the issue but the fact remains that at the time of the conquest, all of those scholastic achievements had already been topped by the greeks regardless of who did what first, so there's no getting around the fact that when Alexander invaded, he brought superior culture. Not to mention he's the literal proto-enlightened despot, showing cultural tolerance, open-mindedness, and the type of behavior that all future great men would be compared to and aspire to. Ghengis Khan is your typical villain of history, destroying cities, genociding millions of people, and contributing nothing but the addition of tax collectors to harass the people.

The two men are polar opposites as far as how they treated their enemies, whether or not they improved or ruined the civilizations before them, and how long their influence lasted. Alexander's empire may have split up but they were all still macedonian-style kingdoms heavily inspired and influenced by Alexander's original conquest. Alexander would lay the foundation for both European and Persian cultures for hundreds of years, whereas the Khan brought the black plague, destroyed countless historical cities, libraries, and monuments, and was shortly overthrown and pushed to the dust bin of history. The mongols would influence virtually nothing. The cultures they destroyed merely got back up and kept doing things their way, and mongol culture retreated back to the steppes where they would be conquered by Russian gunpowder armies and never again have any influence over world affairs. Mongol influence lasted maybe a couple generations, alexander's influence lasted hundreds of years until it was replaced by roman influence, which in itself was inspired by alexander. All the great roman generals looked back and wanted to be the next Alexander. Even Persians looked back on him with envy and respect. You don't see the Egyptians changing the name of alexandria for instance, they know how important he was to them.

Freedom of religion.
Banned kidnapping woman.

Sometimes I like to wake up in the morning and just
yell at Persians on the internet

Because western tradition is still dominant. Mongol tradition isn't anymore.
I suppose Khan was a bit cruder, that may also account for it. Who caused more suffering? I'm pretty sure it's Khan but would love a source on it.

>Macedonia
>Superior to anything other than Thracians

Alexander was raised by Aristotle. He was about as "Macedonian" as FYROM.

>persians
>having internet

>Aristotle
>Anything other than a Barbarian

Also

>Aristotle
>Anything other than an invention by the Romans

This. The answer is really simple; racism. Racism permeates our society, social structure and history. Our imperialist eurocentric view of history basically says that white guys are the best thing every and everyone else are barbaric savages.

>humans
>having internet

Diplomatic immunity

>khan and Alexander even come close to similarity
Liberals are historically retarded.

>lol I said it again

I bet you think Tengri leveled the Steppe and milked the first horse

Don't trigger the Bulgarians

Those were Athenian accomplishments, not Greek. There wasn't a "Greek Culture" because all the Greeks did was fight each other.

yeah but so are conservatives. Anyone that tries to look at history through a partisan lense is going to make wild stupid claims like that because it fits their "whites are the devil" thesis. It's just as retarded when /pol/ shits try to streamline history through their reactionary lense.