Where do we place the real end of the Roman Empire? Maybe after Justinian's death?

"Rome" ended several times.

It ended when it went from the classical SPQR Republic into the Caesarian Empire.

It ended when Paganism was out of fashion and Christianity was in.

It ended when the WRE fell to Barbarians.

It ended when Byzantine fell to the Turks.

It ended when the Holy Roman Emperor ended.

It ended when then Reformation made Europe break away from Rome's grasp.

Once the Vatican and Papacy is destroyed, then Rome is truly dead.

>"Roman" Empire
>Without holding Rome for most of its span
>Without Rome as the sole capital city
>Without the Latin language

The Sea Jews aka Venetians, and shitposting Turks.

>Without Rome

Nigger Rome wasn't even the capital of the late empire, it was an irrelevant shithole. Constantinople had been the new capital since Saint Constantine decreed it as such.

Gibbons please go

The Roman Empire as a concept: Never
The Roman Empire as an actual stable empire: Probably the Crisis of the Third Century and Diocletian, once your capital's not Rome it ceases to be the Roman empire

t. Mehmet Ali Papadopolos

>It ended when Paganism was out of fashion and Christianity was in.
You put this but not Diocletian? How retarded are you? Why is this board this obsessed with religion?

>He doesn't know the Western empire transferred its capital from Rome 200 years before the West fell

Idiot

The Romaboos are jealous that their city fell to butt-naked German savages while Byzantine stood tall for centuries, rich and wealthy.

>WE WUZ ROMANS

Rome was not the capital of the late WRE. It was Milan and Ravenna. Venice ruled both of those cities for a while.

Looks like we've established the real end of the Roman Empire, then.
Thanks, Constantine, for allowing the Eternal City to fester and rot its way towards irrelevance.

Misquoted:

Constantinople = capital of the ERE
Milan and Ravenna = capitals of the WRE

Rome still exists. Emperors became Popes.

Rome was still strong throughout the Medieval ages. It wouldn't be until the Protestant Reformation that ties were truly broken with the Eternal Roman.

>Milan and Ravenna = capitals of the WRE
Then it's not the Roman empire, if it were Italians would be called Romans today

Not

An

Argument.

And furthermore, genetic studies have shown that modern Greeks are very similar to classical age Greeks, and cherrypicking some picture (note the light skinned people in the background) doesn't change that.

Pontiff and Emperor have always been separate jobs... since before Christianity

/thread

Milan and Ravenna could never replace the Eternal City. That is why the West fell.
The Roman Empire is only Roman if the highest authority lies in Rome, and I dare you to prove me wrong, plebeians.

This. The Roman Empire ended when the last Emperor of Rome was disposed.

>Cuckstantine moves capital to Rome
>dies
>Empire splits again, Rome capital of the Western Roman Empire for most of the period from the end of Constantine's united Empire to 476AD
>NO CONSTANTINOPLE IS THE CAPITAL FOREVER BECAUSE MY FAVORITE EMPEROR (Saint, lol) MADE IT SO FOREVER AND EVER

Byzantineboos are absolute fucking cancer. Go and admire the Byzantine Empire, I don't care. Just don't call an Empire whose people and rulers spoke only Greek, worshiped like Greeks and lived in fucking Greece "Romans."

>All these Roman dickriders
>They think they'd even be plebs in Rome

90% of Romans were slaves. I don't get why people think they all lived in Marble cities and were close to developing electricity

>Rome
*Cuckstantinople

>90% of Romans were slaves.
Roman citizens couldn't be slaves dipshit. Go suck Ottoman dick.

>Rome, Milan and Ravenna

All part of Italy today.

>Constantinople

Part of Turkey.

Greek niggers btfo.

>90% of Romans were slaves
Are you a Fucking retard?

Also this entire thread is just retarded hipsters going
>xdDxxxD yea fuk da byzzantenes teehee

>90% of Romans were slaves
Verifiably false. Slaves were generally foreigners, specifically prisoners of war and trophies of conquest that were captured during legion campaigns.

>Marble
You mean cementum, pleb. Marble was purely decorative and aesthetic, cement concrete was the prime building material of Roman architecture. Not only was it extremely advanced for its time, but even in the present era we're having trouble reaching its strength and reliability with our own cement mixes.

>were close to developing electricity
No, but they were close to developing steam power.

Liking the Byzantines is literally the most hipster contrarian thing you can do. Literally anyone with half a brain can see that Ancient Rome was better. Byzantineboos are cancer on par with Deus Vult LARPers, in fact half of them are retarded /pol/posters.

Fuck off Jupiter and Sol Invicta not Christ and Constantine.

>the capital of your vast sprawling empire has to be a certain city or else obese neck beards on a tuvanese throat singing website will shit their pants and cry
Yeah fuck the the fact that Constantinople was richer and larger than Roma ever was.

>ridiculing greeks is hipster

its byzabooing itself which is contrarian. popular consciousness recognizes it as a degenerate WEWUZer meme empire

>Letting your capital city fall into irrelevance and replacing it with a shiny new fad city because you're too lazy to maintain your capital's infrastructure
Gibbon's book should've been all about this and nothing else.

You're assuming that just because I think the later Roman Empire (Byzantium) was interesting that I hate every other period of Rome's existence? Are you autistic? People admire the Byzantines because they were able to maintain the institution of the Roman Empire through so much adversity. People always cheer for the underdog you autistic nigger

>Hehe, if I constantly say the word cuck maybe he won't notice my argument sucks ass.

It was the eastern half of Rome, it had majority Greek speakers as far back as the Seleucids and that continued when Rome conquered it, and it carried on Greco-Roman culture and learning as well as many of Rome's institutions. Sure its very differently politically, but its Rome, and in the absence of the Western half it is its natural successor.

Said shiny fad city did extremely well for itself faggot

>popular consciousness recognizes it as a degenerate WEWUZer
"popular consciousness" on historical matters is meaningless. Pic related.

Every major historian considers it the uninterrupted continuation of the Roman Empire

>popular consciousness
Maybe popular consciousness of the >H>R>E

Not

an

argument

>Using the word "degenerate"

Gee wiz, you must be truly """redpilled""" my gentlesir.

>they were able to maintain the institution of the Roman Empire through so much adversity

The Roman Empire wasn't a quasi-feudal rump state.

>it had majority Greek speakers as far back as the Seleucids and that continued when Rome conquered it

Are you saying the Roman Empire had a Greek speaking majority or just the Eastern half?
Because there's a huge difference between an elite and sizeable subject population being able to speak Greek and an entire Empire made up of a Greek speaking majority, lead by dynastic rulers whose first language was Greek instead of Latin.

It was good for slowing down the rot and decay in the system, but not for recapturing and holding what was lost. Even Justinian could not truly restore the Roman Empire, considering Rome itself was only held for a very brief amount of time, and both Hispania and Gaul remained out of his hands.
Constantinople should have stayed an economic trade hub, maybe a provincial capital, but nothing more.

>different language
>different religion
>different customs
>different art
>different architecture
>different people

Yeah it's totally the same thing lmao.

This Greek WE WUZISM got so pathetic in the end that even feudalistic slavshits started calling themselves "Third Rome" because they bought the title from the Byz*ntines. Fuck's sake. Byz*ntines aren't Roman, """""Holy""""" """""Roman""""" """""Empire""""" isn't Roman, R*ssian Empire isn't Roman, T*rks aren't Roman. FUCK OFF.

Mehmet II was a ceaser of the Roman empire. If you claim Byzantium was Rome you have to at least accept that Mehmet who was descended from emperors was Caesar

Good thing I don't claim Byzantium was Rome, then. See and especially the picture.

Who are you to decide that lol

who are you? I dont care about your opinion.

haha nice one reddit

476.

But Justinian sounded a deathnell for the death of the ERE with his retarded over-extended conquests and bankrupting of the nation that had been handed to him in rather good condition.

>Outside empire destroys and deposes and emperor
>Hurr Durr it's the same line of succession

>Roman Empire after certain periods
You mean the Greek Empire?

It is the same line of succession though.. he was related by blood. The Byzantine empire isn't exactly an "inside empire" either

>ethnically, linguistically, religiously different Greeks want to LARP as romans
>this is fine

>ethnically, linguistically, religiously different Turks want to LARP as romans too
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

the autism of byzaboos everyone

It wasnt even the same state from one day to the next. People just care about imaginary titles too much

Blood has literally nothing to do with succession

The reason mehmet was not a Roman empire was because he was a complete outsider with his own empire and destroyed another.

This isn't hard to understand

Notice how Byzantinefags immediately go on the defensive the second you ask them how the "mantle" of the Holy Roman Empire is transferred. Please enlighten us as to why Greeks can be Romans if they control what you claim to be the capital of the "Roman Empire" since Constantine, while the Ottomans cannot.

>line of succession
A parade of coups does not a line of succession make.

>this triggers the t*rkroach

If I'm not mistaken, weren't a few Emperors Pontifex Maximus as well?

Two separate offices, but usually held by the same individual.

...

>WAAAAAAAEEEHHHHH MOMMY I POOPY IN MY DIAPER WWWAAAAAAAAAEHHH MOMMY IM RETARDED WAAAAAAEHHHH
Okay dude.

Who are you to decide who an outsider is? How are any of the Greek Byzantium royal families not outsiders?

Pretty triggering how the sword is sheathed upside-down.

How is the continuous Romanness of the ERE larping? You don't know what larping is and throw the term around like its pennies.

Peaceful and intentional transition of power, you mong.

Veeky Forums roman succession threads in a nutshell. The funny thing is that Mehmet had more claim to he original rome as any of the Greeks did.

Is that a rule you made up? Nice try

>romanness is being different in every possible way but keeping the name "Roman"

>Peaceful and intentional transition of power
>In the Byzantine Empire

They were worse than post Julio-Claudian Rome.

There goes the claim of the entire Roman Empire from being legitimate.

>LARPing
>Live Action RolePlay
AKA pretending to be something you aren't. Just like the Byzantine Empire after Phocas usurped the Justinian Dynasty.

It's not because they control a certain city you autistic child they were the literal continuation of the Roman state. An alien culture with an alien religion occupies your territory, does that make them the exact same state? That's what the turks slowly did to the ERE

Rome ended at the Year of the Four Emperors confirmed.

How?

>An alien culture with an alien religion occupies your territory

Greeks aren't true Latin Romans.
Orthodox Christianity isn't the true Latin Roman religion.

Come on, it's not that hard, just admit that by your own standards the Byzantines weren't Roman.

How were the Romans themselves not just pretending? Its not like them declaring themselves to be Rome has any weight to it since empires are not physical things.

My guess as to why Western fags are so salty about ERE being legitimately Roman? It takes away from the neopagan fantasy that Christianity was the cause of Rome's decline.

> literal continuation of the Roman state

But this is wrong, WRE and ERE were separate states.

Roman Empire ended in 610 AD: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius

>He was responsible for introducing Greek as the Eastern Roman Empire's official language.

/thread

This thread is proof that Catholic larpers are still butthurt that the true Roman Empire was in the east while they were getting assfucked by German Barbarians lol.

>different religion
>different customs
>different art
>different architecture
>different people

No.

The Romans themselves were Romans though. Phocas, the Heraclians, the Isauros, etc. were all Greek and of Greek origin.

They were both the Roman Empire you fucking meme

>implying

more to do with Greeks pretending to be Roman whilst not in communion with the Roman Church

This is the part people get wrong though. Mehmet referring to himself as "Caesar" once in a letter is somehow tantamount to "The Ottomans considered themselves as the successors of the Roman empire"

They fucking didn't, no idea where people get this stupid idea

>Lol salty butthurt goymans #truerome
Guys, save us from the Muslims, please.

So you would consider Phocas to be the last Roman Emperor, wew.

>reducing 900 years of history into christian squabbles that began in the last 100

They weren't, they were separate governments controlling different parts of what was regarded as one state

>deny evidence because orthodox LARP fantasy

Claim it as an idea or something spiritual if you like, but all of those things were different.

And one retained everything Roman while the other gradually eschewed those things.

So technically anyone who owns rome or is a roman who rules from rome can make the claim?