I'm a Muslim, and know quite a bit about the religion and its history. If anyone has any legitimate questions...

Why should anyone believe Mohammed?

>everytime
From a purely religious perspective, it could be argued that God had forsaken the Fatamids, who ruled Jerusalem before the First Crusade, for their decadence, heretical nature, and harassment of innocent pilgrims- a belief commonly applied to the Umayyads after their failed assualt on France. After the Fatamids were defeated, perhaps God favored those Muslims who continued to fight for the holy lands, leading them to victory. Of course none of this is known, and the Quran warns against claiming to know God's intent for the people on earth.

How did the prohibition against alcohol work in regards to long sea voyages for things like Chinese trade?

All you need to know about Islam:

>Detailed Documentary Exposing Islam (3 hours)
youtube.com/watch?v=qk_VwZxN9bA

>Muhammad the World's Most Evil Man?
youtube.com/watch?v=efRRknDAuHc

>Evidence Muhammad was Demon Possessed
youtube.com/watch?v=FywOhaY-GEA

>Original Sources Koran Stole its Stories From
youtube.com/watch?v=ZhaLDYo0Kl8

>Allah = Satan
youtube.com/watch?v=qTi1FZkoEsM
youtube.com/watch?v=86PL9wueH-s
youtube.com/watch?v=TLoUq8vybzY

>Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret
youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

t. ex-Muslim

For as long as Israel exists, there will be conflict between Muslims and Jews. In the event of Israel's fall, either tensions would ease as local Jews would integrate back into Muslim countries, or they could get even worse, if a terrorist group like Al-Qaeda seized the territory. I fear that the latter may be true (except it being Al-Qaeda themselves taking it, they see not to quarrel with them much...), but wish for peace between our peoples

The Sunni are too pure for this.mpeg

Is Allah outside morality?

I won't disagree with that, the Muslims did have stratigic advantages later on

We believe that the Quran contains miracles, and that the Prophet it had been given to was granted the gift of prophacy. It is thus because of the Prophet's miracles in life, such as the victory over the Makkans, and the miracles in the Quran visable to believers, which says we must follow the example of the Prophet, that we embrace all that we can know of what he said and did as law

How do you see the future of Islam? Any new conquests you guys want to lead? Do you hope the Muslim countries will unite into one powerful caliphate?

To be honest, I don't know. I don't know much about post-Rashidun Arab history, when a lot of the trade took place, and I know little of the livelihoods of traders

Europe will accept Islam. The current Europeans don't like it. Their children will tolerate it. And their children will pray to Mecca 5 times a day and accept that there is one God, Allah and that Mohammed is His Prophet.

Nothing can stop this trend at this point. We are looking at the dusk of Christian life in Europe.

That's more than I can watch in a night (it's 3:00 am here), but I'll look at what you've provided when I am able

What about Eastern Europe and Russia itself? India, China, Southeast Asia in general? What about the Americas?

A lot of Sunnis are getting ridiculous with the exessive traditionalism in recent times- it's the Salafist influnces being spread by Saudi Arabia. I am a Zaidi Shiite

Well no, Allah is the creator of all things, and thus created the morality we are born with

At current, the future is bleak. It is prophesied that near the end times, all Muslim nations would be ruled by unjust men, and as no leader of any Muslim nation seems to be adhering to Shariah themselves, this time seems immenent, if not upon us already. Nonetheless, I believe Muslim armies will defeat Israel eventually, and perhaps India too. A united caliphate is a wonderous vision, but Muslims will likely not recieve a legitamate leader of all until the Mahdi, who will unite Muslims near the last day

The future is tumultuous and uncertain- a few leaders and cultural shifts could change that. If people desire to convert to Islam, I'm all for it, but I don't have any desire in particular to see Christian Europe fall

>the mahdi
>all of Islam is anxiously waiting for a black Ethiopian dwarf

It's so funny to me

Don't listen to their lies, they wear them to protect their hair and skin from the Sun, the Israelites were a standing army in the desert who couldn't keep pigs there.

The Egyptians before them did the same thing, they don't drink wine as it dehydrates you, these cultures were different in the most ancient times as they climate of the Middle East was a lot more habitable than it is the last 2000 years.

Mecca is Disneyland for Muslims invented by Jews and Americans.

is it really acceptable to marry first cousins?

Exactly how common is marrying 9-12 year old girls in Islamic culture? Like is it more of a universal tenant, or just more of a cultural locality kind of thing?

wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

Care to explain?

That's why the wives would have worn them in the first place. Extreme traditionalists just interpret from that that it was also a show of submission to God. The Quran also says what is righteous is what is good for you, and hence what is unrighteous, like alcohol, is bad.

Yes, we see it as something permitted by God in opposition to other forms of incest

Shouldn't this be stopped? The prophet didn't do this did he? Seems like a no brainer? Is it just the perception of being considered "modern" that stops people speaking out about this? Seems like this practice would be clearly detrimental to the group...

It's unfortunately regular in the Middle-East. This is accepted by many because it's been taught for generations that Aisha, the Prophet's youngest wife, was around 9 when they married. This doesn't make historic sense, however, as she was reported to have fought in full battle regalia alongside the Prophet. It would be downright silly to imagine a 9-10 year old in armor (which they did not make for children) rallying troops with powerful speeches and attacking enemies on camel-back. She must have at least been in her teens at the time of marriage, thus making child marriages outside the fold of Islam.

So why do you suppose the idea pervades even today then? Gettin's just too good or something?

Apologises to those I haven't answered, but I'm actively falling asleep now. I will return tomorrow

Lying =/= good

You stupid Muslims come to the most rain soaked lands and demand that people dress desert style, you are above all others, the most backward people on the planet.

...

I have two questions

First does the Qur'an or Allah promise wealth or greatness on this Earth/in the physical realm?(as in not just an after death paradise system) If so what explains the generally weaker social/geopolitical standing of Muslim countries today?

Second, is there any aspect of man/creation not created by Allah? If not then is Allah guilty of all sin having created both man's nature/mind and that which he reacts to?

Thank you

A lot of those are just assumptions based on what is written and excessive nitpicking. The Quran does draw on analogies that would be sensible to the people they were revealed to, like sunrise-sunset; we wouldn't likely call someone who mentions a sunset as scientifically illiterate just because we know the sun isn't actually 'setting'- the Quran was given to us to achieve salvation, not just to describe the nature of the universe

Do you believe Islam as a majority religion is compatible with a liberal democratic society? Im grappling with the question myself

I believe the Prophet may have, but I'm uncertain. It's never really been a problem- inbreeding tends to only be a big issue after multiple generations of it in terms of birth defects. It's never been a very relevant issue, it's just something that there's no rule against

Tradition rules in much of the Middle-East, and people tend to be very much against adjusting to new change there. Several major Sunni and Shiite scholars and imams have embraced the idea of Aisha having been in her teens at marriage, but the Salafists have been the most resistant, and their scholars and the government of Saudi Arabia still promote it as fact

That's 90% Salafist doings. Attempting to maintain tradition is honorable, but they take it to ridiculous levels on questionable grounds

>people are still posting this horrendously incorrect image that compares like 30 different Arab campaigns to just the First Crusade

How does Islam view Animal Cruelty?

First, to an extent; the greatest promises for the righteous are in the afterlife, but God may grant boons to those who act justly during their time on earth. This could be anything from vast material wealth to simply a comfortable mind- God knows what gifts will be best used. As for the Middle-East, it is prophesied that Islamic lands will suffer terrible leaders and great poverty near the end time. The abandonment of Shariah by Islamic leaders can be attributed to this

Next, all things, including the human capacity to sin, were created by God. God does not desire puppets for followers, but wants mankind to prove its strength against the influence of Satan

I don't think so. Liberalism by its nature encourages people to act upon what their body feels, which is in contradiction to Islam's teaching of conservatism. It is better when Muslims keep to our own communities, under our own laws

Strongly against, with harsh punishments. We believe that animals too have souls, and must be treated righteously. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is reported to have treated his cat with such respect that he would not disturb it from his robe when it slept, and always ensured his camel recieved lavish treatment. Nonetheless, hunting and the slaughter of farm animals is accepted as being a part of our position in the world, so long as it is done humanly

>I believe Muslim armies will defeat Israel eventually, and perhaps India too
>nd perhaps India too
you do t see anything hypocritical here and reason why religion of peace is written with quotation marks

Do you hate niggers?
fds.duke.edu/db/attachment/1220

We are not a religion of peace, that's just what a lot of liberals have taken to calling us. We are a religion of justice, and will shy from no fight to achieve this; that is nothing to be ashamed of. And indeed, for as long as Israel and India attacks Muslims directly or inadvertently, we will fight

So when in your opinion justice will be completed and all muslims outside of arabian peninsula dead or expulsed?
It is something to be ashamed of, you pride yourself that you are powerful and willing to fight, but in truth only reason you exist is morality of powerful.

No- though some have promoted ideas of racial supremacy, they have no basis; ethnicity has no bearing in Islam

What do you think of the idea of developing robots until they become an everyday item then activating a piece of encrypted code causing them to kill every human in sight except those with a special electronic tag?

Muslims really are just the worst

Genocide is never just. The majority of Islamic expansion was done by the Umayyads, who were unjust leaders who ignored the Quran. Nonetheless, most of the people today who live in those regions are now Muslims, and are no less afforded the same protections as all people. Our fight is to prevent something like that from ever happening again; vengence against innocent inhabitants of land over an empire long past is pointless

The sunnah states that Muslims should try to leave non-Muslim lands and emigrate to Muslim lands because living under the rule of non-Muslims in a non-Muslim land is conductive to sin. Do you then support the reemigration of Muslim from the West to Muslim lands?

Well, I can't say I'd approve of that...

In that case...
Can a Muslim be Vegan?
Basically, decide to not consume any animal or any bi-product of animals like eggs or milk etc'...

Or, is that not allowed?

So if Umayyads were unjust when will you do justice and go back to arabian peninsula, or will you following your own logic to prevent something that happened do same thing that that they did.
>Vengence against innocent inhabitants
So do you support Hamas and palestinian terrorist attacks?

I think it's better for Muslims to remain in Muslim lands, as it's better functionally and reduces ethnic and religious tensions- I'm generally opposed to immigration unless it's absolutely nessecary as a whole. However, that still leaves the issue of converts, like myself; I think we should generally stick together and help influence each other positively, but still maintain the cultures we were born into

It's allowed, and very common among Sufis. It's just not particularly encouraged

...

That would be awkward. Imagine being the only one not sharing the meat of the mutton slaughtered by your family for the Aid el Kebir.

The Quran says that Allah leads people astray from his religion
I forgot the exact sura, but it's in there. How is this moral?
This is why I say YHWH and Allah are different.

The locals are the ones who converted under the Umayyads; it's the same people who were living there before, just with a different religion. You can't kick them out of their own land with any justice- the Arabian Peninsula is foreign to them

And I do not support terrorist attacks against anyone, but one thing must be made clear; Israeli settlers in West Bank are foreign invaders under the guise of civilians. Palestinians, like anyone else, have a right to defend their homes

I'm not quite sure how they do it. It's commendable, I suppose, to so staunchly defend animals, but I think it's ultimately unnecessary

Mufti?

You are correct on the verse; it is they themselves who fall astray through sins, but as a grave punishment for those who have fully forsaken God, then God removes their sight to see divine truth, and redemption becomes almost impossible. With divine inspiration, they will lead difficult, tiring lives, making a clear example of what rebelliousness against God brings. Sometimes people need harsh punishments so that others may see and avoid that path- this is in line with what is spoken of God in the Bible. God is the most merciful, but when punishment is needed, there is no more effective ones than those from God

Fair enough case for West Bank, what I wanted to point more is why India, when first war was started by Pakistan, and Muslims as all other religions have equal rights in India as opposed to Pakistan where others are constitutionally discriminated, should muslims have more rights than people of other religion?
Also you surely support reintegration of parts of Turkey to Armenia.

If your asking what they are, they're sort of regional high priest for Sunnis- similar to bishops in Catholicism, I think

Muhammad was supposedly given a unique exception by God where he could have up to nine wives at the same time as opposed to the usual four, one of whom was nine years old. Awfully fortuitous, wouldn't you agree?

Do you think apostates should be executed according to the Hadith? If not why not

Why did God wait over 500 years to rectify the supposed distortion of His word and reveal himself to an illiterate desert merchant and proceed to change laws and add doctrines like the existence of jinns (desert devils)?

How do you justify the fact that there was a schism immediately after Muhammad's death before the Quran and Hadith were even written down? (Ali is clearly the successor to Muhammad btw)

No sir. The Christian God would never close your eyes to see him. It's counterproductive to his plan of bringing everyone to his religion you understand?
Allah effectively damning people to hell for eternity is immoral and downright evil I'd say.

I'm no great supporter of Pakistan, and agree they've acted unjustly throughout their history. My concern is for the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir, who have been discriminated against and forced from their homes in many cases, as well as the people along the Bangladeshi border, who are suffering extreme poverty due to the poorly-made, heavily militarized border. I'd be happier if the Indians and Bangladeshis traded lands peacefully to allow Muslims and Hindus/Buddhists to freely move through to their respective countries, and for Jammu and Kashmir to become independent, but I fear that would simply be unachievable in the current political atmosphere. And, if the residents of certain Turkish areas had desire to join with Armenia, I'd support it so long as no regions preferring Turkish rule would be forced along

God has granted exceptions to prophets throughout time; I do not question these special exceptions. It is believed by many that all of the wives were accepted because they, like the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), all presented opportunities for the Prophet to express the laws of God in their interactions with him

The Hadith calling for their execution is questionable, in my view, and wouldn't be in line with the Quran saying there is no compulsion in religion. The reasons for their apostacy or what they intended to do afterwards, especially in the early period of Islam, could invoke harsher punishments

God is aware of all things, and chose that time perhaps because it was the best time for Islam to achieve victory. The Arabs at that time were a pitiful group, constantly fighting tribal wars or serving foreign powers. God revealing the Quran to the Arabs first, in the Arabic language, was a means for the Arab ethnicity to redeem itself and stand with honor

And we do not believe he added anything, he simply provided what had been lost. The Jinn were fairly irrelevant to everyone else, so it's sensible that they only need be mentioned to the ones who already knew of them in their culture

I would agree- I am a Shiite. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) prophesied that Muslims would divide themselves into sects, and that those who encourage division are deviants. After the death of the Prophet, the companions of the Prophet, including Hazarat Imam Ali. However, they all convened while he was building the tomb of the Prophet, and elected Abu Bakr without Imam Ali's input. Imam Ali wanted unity, and though feeling disenfranchised, accepted Abu Bakr's rule. On his deathbed, Abu Bakr chose Umar to be the next caliph, not even considering Imam Ali, but again he accepted it. On Umar's deathbed, he set a number of candidates including Imam Ali, and asked them to cast their votes. Imam Ali was narrowly defeated in votes by Uthman, who only received his votes because some of the voters despised Imam Ali without just reason.

Imam Ali did not swear loyalty to Uthman, but did pledge to continue to defend the Caliphate which he still felt he deserved in the first place. Uthman was displeased, and upset Imam Ali was preaching against him from his mosque in Kufa, so he seized all of his property except the single mosque, and all of his money. From his home in Medinah, Uthman was beginning to grow worried about unrest due to his habit of drinking and committing adultry, and was convinced Imam Ali was the cause. Nonetheless, it got to be more than he could handle, and he called on Imam Ali to save him when a mob trapped him in his mosque. Imam Ali refused, and Uthman was stoned to death.

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At this point, rumors that Imam Ali had been responsible for killing Uthman began circulating. The widow of the Prophet, Aisha, promoted them strongly; she'd always had an unusual disdain towards Imam Ali, something the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had warned her against. In his life, the Prophet said one of his wives would betray the Ummah, and would be given a clear sign through hearing a barking dog at a specific town in the desert. Aisha raised an army to march against Imam Ali, and as she marched through that specific town, she heard the dog. She knew she had heard it, but ignored it, making the other generals under her very worried. However, they would not turn against Aisha, and marched on.

Aisha would lose the battle despite her superior numbers, and kicked off the First Fitna, with Muwayiah taking her place to take the Caliphate from Imam Ali. The division still exists today; had she just heeded the warning of the Prophet, or had the council choosing the first caliph been fair to Imam Ali, we would not be divided- but perhaps it was fate. Of course, note Sunnis would tell a very different story- I only tell as I know. Sorry for the walltext

This is pretty neat. Real Islamic/Arabic lore/history. Don't really hear much about the Eastern side of the world since Western culture is so centralized around itself (not to say that that's a bad thing necessarily).

Interesting read.

That is the Shia version of events. Sunnis would describe it differently

I appreciate this thread and the civility of discussion. I myself have a question for you:

How do you deal with the various minor (and some major) details that the Qur'an gets wrong when retelling biblical tales? E.g. that Mary is a member of the Christian Trinity

Also, when looking at the prophets behavior historically, he committed acts that, although acceptable at the time, would be unacceptable today.

How do you reconcile this with Islam's claim to universal truth?

Why do you worship a demon?

Why is there still an issue between the shiites and sunnis even after 1400 years ago? Should that be fixed by now or is there no way to fix it?

The rules have been made clear, and we're given full oppertunity to follow them to the best of our abilities. The path of rebellion harms those around us as well; the deviant wishes to harm the believer's faith only to bring them down. The sight of the deviant is not taken until they would happily discard of it themselves. You must recall the result of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah- there is a limit to the chances we get

How do you, as a Christian, reconcile the extremely different personalities of the God of the OT and the God of the NT?

what does the arabic in this pic mean?

Thank you. This is, of course, very abbreviated and simplified, but I definitely agree Arab history is too often overlooked

From my understanding, and what I was taught, the OT God was acting under the covenant of Abel, which was enacted in blood and murder. He showed himself as a more wrathful God because that was what the people needed. They were dickheads worshipping idols and shit so they needed a firm hand.
The NT God was acting under a new Covenant, the covenant of JC, which redeemed humanity and brought them back to God.
It's hard to explain, but I tried.

aka this

I'm personally amazed- most Islam threads on other sites are 75% hostility or just regulated to the point that hardly anything can be discussed.

Now, when talking about Quranic references to Christians and the Bible, recall the Hejaz area, especially Makkah, was a hot-bed for heretics and syncretics. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) declared the trinity to be a heretical concept, but in the region were more than one group who belived in a trinity- even the Prophet's family worshipped a god and two goddesses above the other local deities. One particular group, whom I forget the name of, did believe in a trinity with Hazarat Mariam among it, and a priestess of this group is reported to have spoken with the Prophet at one point. The message of not equating humans with God is universal nonetheless, even if that example was directed towards a group which never grew to any prominence

(1/2)

(2/2)

The morality of the modern word has been shifted and warped with political happenings, clearly illustrated by the divide between the old and young on issues like gay marriage and marijuana legalization. The actions of the Prophet which would be most likely seen as against modern morals would be execution of war prisoners, accepting religious conversion as a means of avoiding execution, and marrying a young teenager. On the first to, it should be kept in mind that Muslims were in a state of total war from the seizure of Makkah and Medinah until the Prophet's death. Prisoners released would almost certainly just reinforce the enemies again, causing more harm to Muslims whom they were attacking. Conversion was accepted as a surrender, as that would condemn them in the eyes of their former clans, and served as an effective pledge of allegiance. Finally, Aisha may have been around 13, which at that time would mean she'd have long-since begun puberty. The discrepancy over life-span from then until now would place a 13 year old as nearly a mature adult; the law may put the age of consent at various specific ages, but ultimately what's really important is mental and physical maturity when it comes to morality

Your view on this matter is not in the majority, sadly. Two questions:

1. Do you think Muslim parents should encourage their children to scrutinize the texts and come to their own conclusion?

2. Do you believe Islam is in need of a Reformation to rectify coercive practices by many Islamic authorities?