Let's hypothesize an absurd scenario for history: Ancient Roman forces discover America and attempt to settle it...

>Arminius was actually a genius with probably IQ as high as that of Augustus.
Randomly guessing the IQ of historical persons is silly, for both of them.

Okay, you're right. But when certain historical personality kind of transcends the frames of period/location it really fires up yer neurons. There is no doubt that Augustus was a genius, although very macchiavelian one. Arminius' plan was no less amazing and cunning.

The Romans would annihilate all the inhabitants, as they would be even more primitive and unorganized than whatever the Romans faced beforehand.
>Even if it could be impossible, according to some
They would only need to spend a lot of money and time building much better ships, it wouldn't be completely impossible.
Some Germans were part of the Roman army and citizenry, and Arminius was a military genius, its just that his ''allies'' were raging autists, kinda like yourself.

>implying letting barbarians into the army wasn't the death of Rome

kill yourself G*rm, destroyer of western civilization

Romans wouldn't be able to easily get to the Americas. Shallow draft coastal longships with no keel aren't really transatlantic vessels.

Vikings went as far West as newfoundland but they island hopped in the far north.

In some alternate history where the Romans invented triangle rigging deep hulled ocean going vessels they would have had the means and motive to colonize the new world.

What were injuns doing in the 0-400s?

>Okay, you're right. But when certain historical personality kind of transcends the frames of period/location it really fires up yer neurons.

Not that user, but some historical figures had their time and place figured out as well as we do now with the benefit of hindsight and years of research and discussion.

>colonize the new world.
What makes you think they would have gotten far, before abandoning the effort as their Empire disintegrates back home?

Look, I know I'm being a killjoy here since this is intentionally an absurd scenario, but this is SO impossible that any scenario is closer to fantasy than alt history.

They just didn't have the means to get very many people across the ocean. They also didn't have the need; Europe wasn't nearly as populous at that time. There were huge swaths that they weren't even trying to settle because farming tech wasn't all there yet so agriculture wasn't feasible (which would have been a problem in much of North America as well). And the economic incentive that drove European powers to colonize wasn't yet present.

If we're just handwaving all that for fun ... then fuck it, they would've lost contact with the settlers, who would have interbred with the natives and created a Native American Roman hybrid civilization, and after a few initial plagues they would have inadvertently inoculated them against most European diseases. When Columbus (yes, he still exists in this timeline, fuck you) rediscovers the Americas, instead of hundreds of disparate groups of natives who quickly succumb to disease, it's covered by a sprawling empire based out of Cahokia, which, instead of a big fucking earth mound, has a massive temple in the Greco-Roman style dedicated to the Thunderbird.

Meanwhile down in South America the Aztec-Carthaginian Alliance is up to their old tricks (a ship from Carthage got blown off course during the Punic Wars), and let's not even get into what the Neo-Babylonians are doing over in Polynesia. Who will the Europeans ally with in this four-way clash of civilizations?

Fuck, I started out taking the piss but I kinda want to read this as a novel now.

And yes, I do know the Aztecs weren't in South America, originally that said Inca-Carthaginians but I fucked up when I revised it, shut up.

I want underage retards to leave.

It would take them a long time to realize the empire was crumbling due to the distance, no?

this is neat-o

You're as bad as you say the "g*rmanics" are.

I think he means the empire in its prime, i.e 0-150 AD

Incarthaginians

This. Romans didn't try to conquer the actual Indians because they knew they could not project force that far. It would be a trade relationship. Of course, it would also have caused all the plagues that the Colombian introductions did, but without the one-two punch of invading armies the natives would likely have rebounded as those with natural resistances reproduced into the power vacuum.

Romans visited the Americas

A mysterious man appeared speaking an unfamiliar tongue in the year 443 AD, in his brief time on the Earth he hinted at the existence of a land far to the west before being assassinated. A religion sprung up around him, persecuted by the government of a resurgent and aggressive Eastern Roman Empire they fled to the far west across the sea discovering Greenland and the Americas. The Western Empire has been propped up and retaken parts of its former territory genociding certain communities. As a result many religious minorities and tribals have fled to the west. Soon after, more official missions were sent by states, organisations like the Church and colonies from individual localities. 180 years have passed since the death of the mysterious man and the world has changed massively, though some groups have consolidated their presence in the New World overall the people there cohabitate uneasily with groups of local Natives and each other. The population is low due to the difficulties in crossing the ocean, and direct oversight by the states of the the Old World is impossible.

Exarchate of Novapoli – A powerful city state focused on Novapoli and the site of the Pope's agent in the New World. Roman culture, Catholic. Situated in modern day Cape Cod with large colonies on the nearby islands and along the coast.

Roman colonies on the Hudson separate from the Exarchate, some of them are Arian Christian and at war with one another.

Greek colonies on the St Lawrence River, major power is kingdom of Eschate, a major literary centre and the hub of intellectual activity in the new world. Culture is based heavily on high learning. Poor armies mean they have to hire mercenaries from nearby tribes. Based off of Bosphoran kingdom. Primarily Hellenic religion.

Kingdom of Brythannae in southern Florida centred on the Keys. At odds with two major Briton trading republics on the mainland who themselves are constantly preyed upon by the tribes of the interior. Refugees from Saxon invasions in Britannia, didn't go the same way as reality.

Gaelic pirate states in Nova Scotia, quite technologically sophisticated and renowned slave traders. Not tribal. Most of them are Atlantinean.

Isaurian-Native tribes in the hills of Catskill, mostly Hellenic. Raid their neighbours.

Arian Vandal marshdwellers in the Everglades, small tribes with their own fleets. Have a religion geared around submerging male foreigners in the marshes for piety. Take women as concubines.

Empire of Nova-Carthago in Georgia founded by Berber-Punic settlers. Catholics. Ruled by virginal Queens who claim descent from St Augustine, considered more pure under distorted teachings of St Augustine. Who is the patron of the empire.

Zoroastrian Persian Republic on Chesapeake bay with colonies all around it, deposed their Sassanian governor and became independent.

Followers of the Sons of Romulus near Great Lakes, fanatical Hellenic cultists who want to go back to primordial Roman roots. Have Sabine women casus bellum against any state where they seize many women from them and take them as concubines. Two powerful city states and other smaller ones. Lakeromans.

Saxon-native confederation in the Appallachian mountains, nomads who move between their mountain strongholds and raid nearby villages. Germanic pagan.

Gallic refugee tribes in New England that mostly follow their old Gallic religion.

Long Island fortress of former legionaries.

Colony of Egyptians in north eastern Florida.

Titan cultists in NE Michigan

Jewish petty kingdoms near Lake Ontario

Just my autistic spitballing from a CK2 mod I was contemplating making.

they do it by sending all the migratory people that are entering the empire over seas similar to all the religious minorities that fled there in the 1600s, this keeps Rome together by keeping the population more homogeneous.

>My "creative scenario" would end with the creation of a Transcontinental Railway between Roman East Coast and Chinese California.

oh god

YES

Gee whiz, I have an idea, I'm going to betray the Romans.
How could one man come up with such a masterful, supremely complicated plan?

They wouldn't have the ability to effectively rule the New World territories. If these new city states managed to thrive and be self sustaining. Then they would have separated from the Empire's administration. Then fight among themselves for control the New Empire.

Natives are not a threat. As they are still barely into metal working, and get wiped out by Roman diseases.

Western Rome falls and Europe's history goes on as normal. Except they know about the New World and the New Roman Empire. Eventually Vikings or others try to settling in the New World. This second wave of europeans into the new world is much more advanced and untied by Christianity.

imagine Romans high on coca, coffee, and chocolate, while throwing tomato on EVERYTHING like the Italians they were

>What were injuns doing in the 0-400s?

not much, certainly not as much as the Mexica natives.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_chronology

culturally, Romans would have a lot more common with the later Inca, and i'm sure the result of the synthasis of their civilization with theirs would result in something like them. Oddly well organized, industrious and diplomatic.

>high on coca, coffee, and chocolate, while throwing tomato on EVERYTHING
That actually sounds like modern italians.

Civilizations didn't really sprout until the 800s in north america. Around 400 the first mound builders were popping up. In mesoamerica you have teotihuacan at its height, tikal on the rise in the maya region, the zapotec, olmeca xicallanco (cholulans) and veracruz cultures being other prominent groups. In the andes I think you had the wari and nazca groups I might be mistaken.

They'd come in contact with the natives and spread diseases and horses, then fail, then 500 years later the spaniards would attempt to come over and get their asses handed to them by hyper-aztecs.

And then a post script detailing Livia's horrific death from syphilis

the roman empire is not norway in eu4

They get btfo by the Semi...I mean Natives

I doubt that they would permanently settle the new world displacing Indians but if we give them all history sailing tech they had the means to utilize I could see the Romans trading metal implements and mediterranian trade goods for corn seed, squash seed, tobacco, potatos, and American furs, textiles and spices.

When the empire collapses Americas absorb the settlers like the British isles did.

It would start as trade. As in our timeline timber and tobacco would become important.Natives would be decimated by disease, Europe would get syphillis early.
War would be no contest, stones vs steel.
Retired soldiers would settle in land around a few fort towns on the east coast, depending on their population density they may have continued past the fall of western Rome.
Unlikely they would spread far.

Europeans returning to the Americas during the exploration age would find somewhat romanized mestizos

Indeed

Lord Kalvin of Otherwhen is close.
H. Beam Piper is the Author.