Why do people reject the african origin of ancient egypshans?

Why do people reject the african origin of ancient egypshans?

Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/amwkim
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt#Neolithic
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393
meeting.physanth.org/program/2017/session05/schuenemann-2017-ancient-egyptian-mummy-genomes-suggest-an-increase-of-sub-saharan-african-ancestry-in-post-roman-periods.html
anthromadness.blogspot.com/2014/12/ethio-somali-is-farce.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

HOL UP

Because "my whate supremacy "

they were africans but not black

It's bullshit. Egyptians were Near Eastern folks.
Dynastic race theory was right and crying RAAACIIIISSMM isn't gonna change that.

By black I guess you mean Bantu.

Don't worry insecurities are safe, no one is trying to KANGZ this in favor of black Americans.

Black is an umbrella for many different ethnicities, it is not monolithic, so yes they were black, not amero style black, but black nonetheless.

They were not black buddy. They had zero drop of Black African DNA. Now find something else to obsess about.

Do Ethiopians count as sub-Saharan in this "study"

Semites from Africa not black/African ok buddy.

Pic is former Egyptian president.

Why are whites childishly insecure about this?

>egypshans

why would you post an irrelevant picture

Yes. This guy is tweeting about soon to be published research from SAA2017

twitter.com/amwkim

>ancient Egyptians basically lack SSA affinity beyond other Eurasians until Roman times

OUCH. This KILLS the Afrocentric racist. All those years spent on racist theorizing about Black supremacy and it just gets debunked like this. I almost feel bad for you guys.

Egyptians have Maghrebi African DNA and Arab. Not black african
Copts are the closest representation of what Egyptians were. In most ways Copts are same as ancient Egyptians

No they're not. Ancient Egyptians had zero drops of Black African blood in them while Copts have a few.
But sure, Copts are mostly descended from them despite the mixture.

So Ethiopians do cunt as sub-sahran in this study.

Why bring black Americans into this, nobody is trying to KANGZ this for them. They have their own history. Why do they make people feel so insecure they have to bring them up out the blue?

That's what an Egyptian looks like. If you saw this man on the street, you wouldn't see him as white.

By this logic, Middle Easterners, Libyans, etc. are "black".

Black Americans are the ones who make racist websites like Egyptsearch full of black supremacist drivel. Egypt is something very important to them and many still insist that only West Africans would have been capable of creating Ancient Egyptian civilization.

Looks like a sandnigger desu, exactly like modern Egyptians do.

honestly, id see them as brown. kind of vaguely blackish I suppose.

because farming was invented in Anatolia and the Near East during the Neolithic revolution, and later moved into North Africa at around the same time that the first vestiges of Egyptian civilization sprung up.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt#Neolithic

>Studies based on morphological,[17] genetic,[18][19][20][21][22] and archaeological data[13][23][24][25][26] have attributed these settlements to migrants from the Fertile Crescent in the Near East returning during the Egyptian and North African Neolithic, bringing agriculture to the region.

Oddly enough, this article has posted the SAME image OP uses to attempt to assert an African origin of the ancient Egyptians

in short, this was all an elaborate ruse.

How is that irrelevant? Nilosaharans were probably closer to that look that anything.

Sorry ghanafags

Many of them are.

Pic related is a Saudi general. The line between black and Arab is blurry.

>one modern Egyptian represents what all Egyptians, past and present must look and have looked like

you do the vast ethnic diversity of ancient Egyptians a great disservice.

>posts le stormfag btfo meme

brainlets never learn.

Those are fringe elements no mainstream black american believes shit like this. They have their own history that involves west Africans and Anglo colonists.

The point is black is an umbrella term. Black people come in all shades and phenotypes.

Pic related is black Americans. Not related to semetic blacks(Egyptians).

It's a retarded umbrella, just like "white" is a retarded terminology. It's only (((useful))) in american census forms because the population has actually no idea of where they come from, so short of DNA testing for ancestry pigmentation is the only indicator they have. All that nordcuckism and Kangzism bullshit come from amerifats, as most types of cancers usually do.

Yeah thats because they have varying degrees of mixture. The average black-american is 20% white (more or less depending on region).

But I suppose you are right in that the word "black" has become very broad now with this weird black-white dichotomy we have.

If we brought an average Ancient Egyptian to America, they would probably be within the range of "black". However, if we ourselves time-travelled back to Ancient Egypt and called them something like "black" or even "african", they would be like what the heck are you talking about. Thats why its anachronistic to project these post-colonial constructs into the past. So its just how we look at it I guess

Let's end this debate once and for all.

Because AE straddled 3 continents it was a multicultural society. Caucasions came from the north and encountered semetic black tribes that had lived there forever. These two groups worked together to create the ancient Egyptian golden era. It was a head and body relationship, with Caucasions being mainly leadership and planning, and the locals being the bulk of the workforce. Over the years a lot of interbreeding happened so eventually you got Egyptians of all colors and phenotypes. The people of egypt today are the result of millennia of race mixing. So the race of the ancient Egyptian is more complicated than most racial purists understanding of race on both sides.

Pound for pound the closest living relatives of the ancient working class Egyptians are semetic blacks. They still live in the Nile region and remain relatively unchanged to this day.

That should settle the debate.

>Pic related includes black Americans

fixd

You're nuts. Those "Caucasions" were the Semites. The natives of Egypt weren't black either but brown.

Nobody knows how they would feel about racial classifications, that is pure speculation. The probably had entirely different ethnic classifications than we do today?

By black you mean pure Bantu.

Point is you don't have to worry, are insecurities are safe, nobody's trying to KANGZ this in favor of black Americans, but East Africans fall under the umbrella terminology, "black", maybe we should change our terminology to be more specific to reflect the complex and nuanced nature of race. Maybe we should get rid of the terms black and white altogether when it comes to ethnic discussions.

>what are lightskinned black people?

no thats wrong. All the invasions that Egypt went through only accounts for around 15% of their gene pool at most. While noticeable, its not enough to significantly change their phenotype.

The closest relatives to the Ancient Egyptians are modern-day Upper/Southern Egyptians still there today. Its clear from the art that the brown type was the dominant. Copts are probably the closest modern-day relative to the "lighter" phenotype that was around during that time as well (more north/lower egypt) as the art shows that women would be drawn that way.

My personal theory is that during the Hellenistic period, the center of power moved North and perhaps their population increased substantially which is why the lighter Egyptians are more prominent today. But to be clear, Arabization was mostly a cultural event; not very much genetic. And not enough genetic to affect phenotype much. Modern-day Copts have 0 arab mixture and dont look too different from the majority.

Try to comprehend that East Africans have nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.

>Ancient Egyptians
>Semites
>black
How about no to both

Southern Egyptians are semetic blacks, we are in agreement. Pic related is southern Egyptians.

So then why did King Tut have red hair and that Queen have tobacco in her sarcophagus?

They thought of themselves as equally distinct from fair asiatics and black nilotics alike. they thought of themselves as their own distinct category. thats why calling them black is anachronistic even though they might be considered black in 21st century America or Europe

They still have the same customs, clothing, tradition, even language. Semetic blacks are ancient Egyptians closest living relatives by far.

Doesn't change the fact that they were biologically Near Eastern.
Brits pretend they aren't European but they are(at least some of them).

That's an oversimplification, but in the absolutely broadest of terms there is a little bit of truth. Egypt was actually fairly "closed" geogrwphically as opposed to other near-east civilisations. Which is why they were able to boom so quickly and never were conquered/invaded by foreigners until the hyksos fiasco of the 14th to 17th dynasties. After the 1st intermediate, pharaohs grew wary of nomarch (the original martial aristocracy in egypt) political influence, particularly when it came to control of the royal army. So they started to recruit frontier people instead from the 12th dynasty onwards. Mostly nubians at first and later libyans during the 18th dynasty. They also exoerienced some minor canaanite migrations during the hyksos period but maybe it was just a shift of 5%, and mostly contained to the delta. However RamsesII was a fairly multicultural whore and wanted to cement cultural unity in his newly acquired canaanite colonies and encouraged migration. Something Thutmoses III (the egyptian napoleon) did also to an extent some 200years earlier. So in reality egyptians became "multicultural" only halfway through their history and it only truly peaked during the 18th and 19th dynasty...and in terms of egyptian periods, it all goes down during the 20th and 21st dynasties (with the later ones being controlled by berbers, nubians, persians and eventually greeks - and levels of admixtures with these ruling elites is debatable). So yes and no, there has been ethnic bracing, but probably not to the extent larpers would like it to.

You're right. Black is too modern and simplistic of a classification

Afro-Asiatic and Semitic people originate in the Levant and spread to Africa from there. Ethiopians are basically half Afro-Asiatic half native East African. Ancient Egyptians weren't mixed with native East Africans.

Yeah well we should cut to the chase and say "South/Upper Egyptians". No need to "semitic blacks" or post a picture of an ethiopian. im an ethnic ethiopian myself and I have no desire to we-wuz egypt lol.

>So then why did King Tut have red hair
You mean Ramses. And nearby north african populations have red hair today so its not out of the ordinary. im sure there was plenty of moving around at the time. Ramses likely had nearby ancestry.


>Queen have tobacco in her sarcophagus

Probably due to the handling but thats a mystery thus far. not sure what that has to do with anything

Because people don't know shit about Africa
Stop you stupid fereng.

Caucasian is an extremely loose term that has encompassed everyone from Jomon to Native Americans and Polynesians. It's a silly phrase used for political purposes as well as a "miscellaneous pile" for those with phenotypes that don't have an extreme climatic adaption many others have.

The Egyptian people before as now are the descendants of the Neolithic Subpluvial, those include North Africans and Fulani and Haratin and many, many other people.

These groups of the last great Aqualithic existed in two main pulses that pushed them to oasises and river bottom lands and as time continued forward groups from both the Sahel and Southwest Eurasian (themselves being on a continuum of admixture) augmented these disparate populations.

Semitic is A LANGUAGE NOT A RACE, Caucasian is A PHENOTYPICAL RANGE not a true race. Habesha are considered Aethiopid, categorized under Mediterranid or whatever yet the very definition of Aethiopid is one that includes components of "negroids"

Of course we know now the Horn had been populated by a back crossing people over 30k years ago, just as we know in Tunisia some 20+kya East Africans founded the oldest continued lines in the region

Do not simplify African biodiversity but also do not limit phenotypical plasticity.
Shut up, you haven't said anything of any grounded research. Get over it.
Except that Wikipedia and we know Nabta Playa aligns with Neolithic Subpluvial sites further east and archeologists have only just now taken East Saharan research seriously.

When you don't take Saharan origins as an option of course Natufian influenced society will be taken as the source. Because Natufian were influenced by African populations
It's fringe. Most black americans will say Egyptians aren't white, they are closer to us but I'm not Egyptians.

False your study simplifies African admixture erasing ethio-somali components

The brits dont reject their european heritage or ties, they reject the idea of "pan-europeanism" as a political project. It's a fallacy both pro-EU and anti-EU camps fall prey to.

Because ancient Egypt was ruled by white caucasions for most of it's history, but the average everyday working class Egyptian that made up the bulk of the population, was semetic East African. This is what is meant by "the Jews were slaves in Egypt".

There is no Ethio-Somali component. They are mulattoes between SSA and Afro-Asiatic.

Ancient Egyptians were not mulattoes, sorry if you don't like the facts. Maybe you can still hold on to the thought that Nubians were mulattoes because that one might be true.

I have a question for you. Why do people like you comment on things that they haven't done any level of in-depth research about? im seriously wondering. do you feel smart giving one-shot and inaccurate answers to people who genuinely want to learn?

Southern Egyptians, Sudanese, and Ethiopians are all related Nile based ethnic groups, and are Semites.

Semites originate in the Levant.

>The Egyptian people before as now are the descendants of the Neolithic Subpluvial, those include North Africans and Fulani and Haratin and many, many other people.
THIS
Thank you for putting it in clearer terms. Ancient egypt literally boomed because many ethnic groups that used to reside in north africa and saharan swamps rushed to the Nile valley following the aridation of the saharah. Geology studies have shown how the size of the Nile also grew following that process and it effectively made it the hotspot of the region. Once all those ethnic groups found themselves in the nile regions, they were "locked" between desert from the west, sea to the east and swamps from the south. This forced admixture and gave them a new cultural identity from which ancient egypt was finally born.

Fuck off. There was no admixture. Ancient Egyptians were Near Eastern folks.

You've been vaccinated recently, haven't you?

No they don't, they originate in Ethiopia. Modern Jews just hate the notion that they originated in Africa so they push this levant crap.

>Ancient Egyptians were not mulattoes,

Unique among humanity.

Sadat had Nubian, aka black, ancestry.

yes but South Egyptians are likely the closest relatives of the "Ancient Egyptians". Perhaps we could throw in north-sudanese/nubians since they literally were Egyptian at points and there was no doubt population movements. I just dont see the point in including ethiopians; I mean I guess we are related distantly but we are still very distinct from the aforementioned.

>Black supremacist fairytales

Go back to the Black StormFront you came from.

Claiming that there was absolutely no whiteness in ancient Egypt is just as dumb as KANGZing it. Ancient Egypt was multicultural.

>the aridation of the saharan region between 7000BC and 4500BC didn't cause mass migration towards the Nile

Come home Jew.

Ohh yeah

>the ptolemaic dynasties represent the majority of egyptian history
Kys softly, my lad

This is false
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393
Wrong.

King Tut was the same paternal Haplogroups as R1b Chadians and Ramesses III E-v38 which is absolutely East African specific

Clearly you're biased

This is what the scientists say. They are saying that black DNA present in modern Egyptians appeared after Roman times and that before this, Ancient Egyptians were Near Eastern folks.

meeting.physanth.org/program/2017/session05/schuenemann-2017-ancient-egyptian-mummy-genomes-suggest-an-increase-of-sub-saharan-african-ancestry-in-post-roman-periods.html

What they didn't mention was that it was originally pretty much nothing at all. The guy tweeting from SAA2017 showed proof of this.

No they originated in Eastern Africa since that's where most of the AA languages are located and Semites sprang out of the mixing between them and Mesopotamian and Levantine "causcasoids".

Cushites like Bejas (not convinced of the connections to the Medjay), Afar, and Somalis probably resemble the Kemetians at an earlier time. Siwi people are also probably close. The ancient Kemetians traced their origins to Punt.
Semitic Africans are either Arabized Nubians and Cushites (i.e. Bejas) and Ethiopians are ancient South Arabian culture mixing with East African culture.

Even Nilotes exhibit admixtures predominant in West Africa (E1b1a) and East Africa (E1b1b) and the unrelated haplogroup B. They like Cushites tend to also be pastoralist and similar food taboos like fish exist across Afro-Asiatic people.

Another side note some tribes originating in Niger-Congo regions arrived in Beja and possibly Oromo lands as well and ended up assimilating to their culture so some people in those tribes exhibit Niger-Congo features.

>muh multicultural deflection
ive studied their art autistically. The vast majority of them (including most of their royalty) consisted of the brown type you see in Southern Egypt today with a lesser but significant fair component best represented by modern-day Copts. Throw in sprinkles of south nubian blacks and nearby fair berber-like people and thats pretty much what you have. My personal theory is that during the Hellenistic age, the fair type you see up North became the majority and culturally dominant which accelerated even more with cultural arabization.

I mean I'm an Ethiopian Jew and I even have to disagree with this. Judaism formed in the boomerang crescent from the Levant/Sinai/Arabian red sea Coast.

There are Midianite and thus Cushitic traits and DNA in Jews from that but it's not Ethiopian.

I know Roger Blench and a few others believe in an Ethiopian origin for the Semitic languages which is what you might be conflating

Except your abstract doesn't show methodology and you are saying it exists without saying how inspire of DNA testing showing otherwise

>scientists are wrong but ancient egyptians were totally black because egypt is in africa and shit

Just fuck off cretin. You can go obsess about the Black Olmecs or whatever now until that too is debunked.

>anthromadness.blogspot.com/2014/12/ethio-somali-is-farce.html

>Judaism formed in the boomerang crescent from the Levant/Sinai/Arabian red sea Coast.

Before or after they were slaves to the Pharaoh?

Not all Semites are Jewish you know. But you're right anyways.

You're a dumbass because the research has clear biases.

King Tut is the same haplogroups as Chadic speakers

Ramesses III is E1b1a

That literally pushes the idea of recent admixture back a couple thousand years. I've been researching Neolithic Subpluvial populations and post-dessication population for the better part of six years. I'm not stupid and won't take your abstract at face value until I see their methodology, their samples and the groups they use to represent "Africans" and Eurasian.

Show it or shut up. I post the ethio-somali study so now you do the same

Oh god, I know him. He isn't a scientist and he hangs out on race forums.

All he does is try to attach himself to Eurasia.
They are related to the Shasu mentioned by Egyptians. Shut up troll.
Duh, I know that.

not him but that obviously never happened. That narrative is probably based on vague folk recollections of the hyksos expulsion. The hyksos were prob Canaanites and the Israelites were canaanites who separated themselves from other canaanites.

Haplomemes are irrelevant and guess what dumbass, this Chadic haplomeme entered Africa from Egypt.

The fact that there was no Black admixture in Egypt kills Afrocentrism.

Why would they recall another peoples expulsion as their own founding myth?

>King Tut is the same haplogroups as Chadic speakers

R1b, still have no idea how the fuck that happened.

>All he does is try to attach himself to Eurasia.
or you maybe dont like the results

they were probably the hyksos (though not "jews" or "israelites" at that time obviously.. Or among them. It makes perfect sense.

Why?

Sub-Saharan Africans still developed agriculture and built cities and worked with iron.

Then their origin is in the Nile region.

How did they get subsaharan admixture then? Let's be honest Africa is a brutal place with brutal people no ethnic group moves back there or into their at all not en masses anyway. Africa has always been a starting point, never an ending point.

I'm talking about the "Viking kang Eric the Black was an Olmec from Egypt" shit.

Black Egypt is now literally Black Olmec and Black Viking tier bullshit.

That occurred at the time of the Neolithic Subpluvial to some time before then into an already densely populated Nile Valley.

The peoples of the southern Levant have extremely interwoven history with Northeast Africa as noted by Mashubians and Natufians. These people went West, mixed more and migrated East and South.


Stop simplifying history because you don't like it, genetics has shown complex layerings whether you like it or not.
Well dude idk why you're surprised, lake Chad is just one bottleneck but it occurs all over the periphery of the Sahara.
No, all the Habesha researchers myself included already tore his work to pieces long ago. People only post him now are Eurocentrics but the study work has gained greater ground and honestly that's what matters.
Stop using sub-saharan as a legitimate category/division and then I might explain to you.

It depends how you define "black" do you mean specifically Bantu?

but they came from the Levant originally.

Look at this monkey chimp out everyone!

>No, all the Habesha researchers myself included already tore his work to pieces long ago.
sauce?

Humans are divided into two groups.
Out of Africa and not out of Africa.
It just happens that genetically Ancient Egyptians were ~100% inside the Out of Africa group despite Egypt technically being African.

Bantus, Kenyans, Khoikhoi and whatnot have no relevance.

Oh, so theories put forward by cranks?

Black Egypt describes the time that Egypt was ruled by people from what is now the Sudanese-Eqyptian border, who were what we would call black, though they were not Bantu. Your mistake was only reading conspiracy theory sites.

Why didn't they record that part of their history? Why claim god was leading them to a new land?

Don't you ever find it odd that both of these groups developed agriculture and iron-working within two thousand years of each other?

This is stupid

There are two broad groups

Paleo-Africans and Afrasians. All humans today are predominately Afrasian, most African groups have paleo-african inputs as well but none dominate.

Where the fuck did you get your education?

Also when the fuck was Kenyan ever a ethnic or socio-cultural category

Nubians aren't the people who created Egyptian civilization though. Afrocentrists always insist that Egypt started out Black but that the Romans and Arabs changed it all by raping Black women.

It can be speculated that the people referred to as Nubians by the ancient Kemetians were of Nilo-Saharan origin but another possibility is the Omotic people whose language is classified as Afro-Asiatic and they seem to represent the confluence between Nilo-Saharan and Cushitic cultures. Hamer women seem to preserve the fashion and hairstyles of the men featured in the depictions of Nubians in the Book of Gates.
The Nubians which managed to still exist in the region today might not be completely representative of the people of ancient times since they went through multiple waves of cultural change, first through Egypt/Kemet-isation, then Christianisation, and finally Arab/Islam-isation.