When I was a kid there was a big controversy over a couple of essays written by students in regards to world war two, and everybody was exhausted after that and I couldn't retain any information regarding the Ottomans.
Basically I just have a few questions:
Who were they, ethnically?
What was their religion?
Who came before them?
Who came after?
Whose ass did they kick?
Who kicked their ass?
Did the islamic empire come before or after?
What about the Turkish empire? How did it relate to them?
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C'mon guys, the wiki article is too dense, I just need a summary so I can fill in the blanks in my world history knowledge.
The ottomans got btfo at the end of ww1. Not quite sure how there can be a "controversy around them in ww2" since they didnt fucking exist anymore.
no, i mean we had to study the ottomans after ww2 and the essay controversy, and we were so sick of people coming in with their parents and shit that nobody was really able to pay attention
Fine, I'll bite. What was the essay controversy?
Well, some second grader wrote an essay about Einstien, and how he had died with dozens of protesters outside his austrian home who held him responsible for the creation of the atomic bomb, and people got upset and told him to rewrite his essay.
He then wrote another essay that said something to the effect of "Hitler did nothing wrong" claiming that Hitler had a mental illness and that it was the people who followed him who were the ones actually pulling the trigger and following through on his orders.
They made him go back and rewrite the essay AGAIN, and this time he wrote an essay about how Truman was a hero because he dropped the atomic bomb in order to save lives and keep the war with Japan from dragging on.
You cant fucking study the ottomans after ww2 because their empire was broken apart in 1919. Maybe that is why the parents chimped out because courses/essays on ottomans being around after 1945 would literally be alt-history. Am I being trolled here? You make no sense. Controversial essays after ww2...wtf?!
Why would a fucking physicist write an essay on Hitler? Are you dense? Are you retarded?
We weren't studying in chronological order. I'm not even sure we were supposed to be studying world history.
This was like, 30 years ago, and it was a charter school, so, you know..
The kid was like, super young, and it was kind of a "school for the gifted" type deal. I think he got kicked out after that.
Jesus, I didn't know the standards on Veeky Forums were so low. This makes /pol/acks look like great intellectuals.
I think the teacher was just desperate to shift the focus away from world war 2 cause parents kept coming in and going apeshit cause they thought we were teaching them how to be nazi's or something.
We had this german woman come in and explain that in germany there was quite a bit of controversy over the nuremburg trials and censorship regarding world war 2, but she was not allowed to talk about the holocaust.
and, you know, this was right during the fall of the Berlin wall, so tensions were kind of high in that regard.
We also had a veteran come in and monitor the class to make sure we weren't "propagandizing" the kids, it was huge clusterfuck, the poor kid hadn't slept in weeks, we even made it into the local newspaper under some sensationalized headline.
>Who were they, ethnically?
They were not part of any known related ethnicity, as they reproduced by having males fucking each other in the ass. That's why Kocek's, the male equivalent to belly dancers, were far more popular than the female.
>The köçek (plural köçekler in Turkish) was typically a very handsome young male rakkas, or dancer, who usually cross-dressed in feminine attire, and was employed as an entertainer.
>Famous poets, such as Fazyl bin Tahir Enderuni, wrote poems, and classical composers, such as the court musician Hammamizade İsmail Dede Efendi (1778–1846), composed köçekces for celebrated köçeks. Many Istanbul meyhanes (nighttime taverns serving meze, raki or wine) hired köçeks. Before starting their performance, the köçek danced among the spectators, to make them more excited. In the audience, competition for their attention often caused commotions and altercations. Men would go wild, breaking their glasses, shouting themselves voiceless, or fighting and sometimes killing each other vying for the boys' sexual favors
>Köçeks were much more sought after than the Çengi ("belly dancers"), their female counterparts. Some youths were known to have been killed by the Çengi, who were extremely jealous of men's attention toward the boys.
>What was their religion?
Ayullawullulllahullulah!
>Who came before them?
The Byzantine Empire
>Who came after?
Modern Turkish "people"
>Whose ass did they kick?
Mostly each others. They spent a lot of time shoving all sorts of things up each other's asses.
>Who kicked their ass?
Lots of people, but the Turks liked it.
>Did the islamic empire come before or after?
>What about the Turkish empire? How did it relate to them?
I'm not even sure what these two mean.
>what religion were the ottomans
Get out
t.balkan rapebaby
No, I mean I literally don't know ANYTHING about that section of history. Everybodies brain was fried and everytime I go back to study that era I just kind of zone out. Its almost like I'm afraid that if I learn about the Ottomans I am going to have to push some vital information out of my brain in order to memorize it.
I mean I can tell you about the main 3 chinese dynasties, I can tell you about apartheid, I can tell you about the colonies and the civil war, I can even talk about the french revolution, but all I ever really studied was American and European history.
Like this is what I know about Egypt:
There were some pyramids, some pharoes that dressed up like god kings, 2000 years pass, then arab spring.
Its sort of like this "mud huts" idea, where if you weren't some vast, sprawling empire, you generally weren't that important.
plus some stuff during world war 2 involving the desert fox and the movie casablanca... waitaminute-
doesn't casablanca mean "white house" in spanish?
Casablanca is set in Vichy Morocco.
Is that in Africa or the Middle East?
/thread
that's all you need to know OP
Portugal
Portugal is not a continent.
I guess the middle east isn't either, but neither is europe.
are you sure it wasn't a portugese colony? I thought portugal was a part of Spain
>he doesnt know about the subtropical portuguese continent
get out
Do you guys actually know anything about world history, or do you basically rehash the same time period over and over again?
>Kocek's
any relation to cossacks?
they are pronounced the same, phonetically
Its in Africa
The Wikipedia article exits but basically
Turks
Sunni islam
Arabs and the Fatimids mainly
Arabs and the Sauidis
Armenian
Define empire
Same thing, Muslims just name empires after their founders
Low quality b8
thanks bro.
what kind of arabs?
I thought they were bashing heads with europes
You'd think an large empire that lasted 5-6 hundred years would at least make a dent in the history books.
a couple of other kids wrote essays as well, one of which was basically a love letter to Hitler. I think that was the one that got us in trouble and the teacher had to stop the kid from reading it aloud during class.
You have Mohammed, then four caliphs, then the Umayyads, then the Rashid caliphate, then the abbasids who control everywhere. But then Turks appear taking everything but Egypt. However turk just means ethnicity not a united nation. So yeah ottomans started as just one of the many Turkish tribes in Asia Minor, then they conquer Anatolia, then Byzantium then the whole ME basically
Reminds me when my friend got a love letter from a gay boi
We were a catholic school as well
I think they don't generally want to teach that because islamic students might get offended. Religion has weird effects on history.
I once wrote a letter to this girl in school I had a crush on, my friend said he would hand it to her. I didn't know she had a boyfriend so when he invited me to play basketball i didn't know he was going to knee me in the balls.
Yeah, school back then was basically just one humiliating, traumatizing event after another. So its really no wonder I grew up to be queer.
But, anyway, how bout those Ottomans?
just like how you can't really discuss the crusades until you are well into highschool because of christian loonies.
OP did you respond to yourself
I'm a schizophrenic and so am I
Kek
>Who were they, ethnically?
Originally some turkic tribes.
>What was their religion?
Tengrism first, i think, then obviously islam
>Who came before them?
depends where, in Anatolia the Romans, or the Greeks what ever you want to call them, in the Balkans a whole host of tribes, Bulgars, Slavs, Greeks e.t.c.
>Who came after?
Independence
>Whose ass did they kick?
First pretty much everyones, Bulgarian, Serbian, Roman e.t.c. but by the time they arrived all three were minor fractions of their former strength and were fighting each other, the Serbs fought among themselves e.t.c.
>Who kicked their ass?
Basically themselves by being corrupt, lazy and inneficient. After the decline pretty much every great power could 1v1 them.
>What about the Turkish empire? How did it relate to them?
What Turkish empire?
...
>What Turkish empire?
I looked it up on wiki, some people call the Ottoman empire the Turkish empire.
>any relation to cossacks?
no
>they are pronounced the same, phonetically
Cossacks is pronounced Kosaks, and Cocek is prounced Chochek. "Ch" as in Chelsea.
>I looked it up on wiki, some people call the Ottoman empire the Turkish empire.
Ah, that they do, but they're wrong, it was the Ottoman Empire, the ruling class considered it offensive being called Turk, that was for lowly Anatolian peasants, they referred to themselves strictly as Ottomans, after Osmans royal house.
>Who were they, ethnically?
That's a very interesting question.
They certainly started off as a Turkish 'beylik' (a sort of frontier fiefdom), with armies largely comprised of Turkish Ghazis (warriors who fought infidels), but their starting point was near the Sea of Marmara, so many of their early subjects were Orthodox Greeks.
In fact, many early Ottoman successes can be ascribed to the better conditions they offered Orthodox Greeks when compared with the harsh feudal rule of the Latins who had come to dominate the region in the late Byzantine era. The early history of the Ottomans is littered with examples of Orthodox Christians backstabbing their Catholic rulers in order to ensure that they were replaced by Ottomans.
As they grew they took foreign brides and concubines, so the imperial dynasty was more culturally Turkish than ethnically Turkish.
The regions they dominated during their rise (western Anatolia, southeast Balkans) hosted large Christian populations, and they had to develop a system that allowed for pluralism. The Ottoman 'Millet' system (whereby religious minorities had certain rights accorded to them in exchange for a special tax) was quite enlightened for its time.
Furthermore, in order to counteract the influence of the warlike Turkish nobility, the sultan (starting in earnest with the 3rd Ottoman sultan, Murad I) began using the 'Devshirme' system, whereby Christian children would be taken from their families at a young age and trained to fill the ranks of the military (in the form of the elite fighting corps, the Janissaries) and the bureaucracy.
Depending on the sources you read, this was either a hated practice amongst Christian populations or a privilege (as it offered an avenue to prestige and success).
Either way, those kidnapped were slaves, although they weren't exactly Kunta Kintes, rising as they did to the very highest positions of power and social status.
1/2
In many ways, the rise of the Ottomans was only made possible by these elite cadres of slaves taken from non-Muslim families.
By the time the empire reached its peak under Suleiman the Magnificent, the majority of its subjects were non-Turks.
One could make a very good case for the Ottoman Empire not being a truly Turkish empire at this point.
Its sultan was of very mixed ancestry, its elite soldiers were comprised of non-Turks, many of its top government officials were non-Turks, its population was predominantly non-Turkish, even its official language was a mixture of Arabic, Persian and Turkish.
The Ottomans only really recovered their Turkishness after the Janissaries were abolished and the nationalism of the 19th century kicked in.
But for long spells of the empire's history the Turks were little more than Anatolian peasants and cannon fodder. To call someone a Turk was even deemed an insult at certain points in the empire's history, a little bit like calling someone a redneck in the modern US.
Serbia kicked their ass
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remove kebab
You don't know how Veeky Forums works, seeing how you respond to posts like senior citizens do on pornboards
Are you even 18
Gee, lets see.
Should I call you what you want to be called or what the entirety of western civilization referred to you as for hundreds of years?
bloody fuckin' aristocrats
tmi
just say "sandniggers"
of course, you know, don't tell the native americans that... they might get upset
The Turk, or The Infidel
then also aristocrats are recquirex for a stable society
>What was their religion?
Another interesting question.
The short answer is Sunni Islam, although many of their subjects were non-Muslims and the Bektashi sect of Sufi Islam held enormous sway at various points in history because of the favour they held with the aforementioned Janissaries (who periodically ran the show).
The Ottomans held the Sunni Islamic Caliphate from 1517 onwards, although the extent to which they upheld Sunni orthodoxy waxed and waned with the times.
The ancestors of the modern-day Saudis even led uprisings against the Ottomans for failing to implement a strict enough interpretation of Islam.
>Who came before them?
The Byzantines, the Antolian beyliks (Karamanids, Germiyanids, etc.), the Seljuks, the Mamluks, the Qara Qoyunlu, the Aq Qoyunlu, the Bulgars, the Serbs, the Bosnians, the Albanians, the Wallachians, the Knights of Rhodes, the Kingdom of Cyprus, various Venetian and Genoese holdings, etc., etc.
>Who came after?
Look at a modern map and compare it to a map of the Ottoman Empire at its peak.
That's your answer.
>Whose ass did they kick?
They destroyed the Byzantines and Mamluks, absolutely dominated the Balkans for centuries, conquered all the other Anatolian beyliks, kicked the Venetians and Genoese out of Crimea and the Eastern Mediterranean.
They kicked Hapsburg ass and fought off a few Christian coalitions at their peak. They also kicked British & ANZAC ass during Gallipoli.
>Who kicked their ass?
Pretty much everyone they conquered kicked their ass as the empire disintegrated. Plus the Russians. The rise of Russia as a world power pretty much ended the Ottoman Empire, as Russia was able to break them in the Balkans by supporting nationalist movements there and kick them out of the Crimea/Caucasus.
In WWI they were destroyed in the south by the British, French and backstabbing Arabs, putting an end to their dominance of the Middle East. I often wonder what the world (and the complexion of modern Islam) would be like if they hadn't entered WWI and held onto the Middle East.
>Did the islamic empire come before or after?
The Ottomans were an incarnation of the Caliphate, so the answer to that is before and during.
The Caliphate was abolished by the Republic of Turkey, which succeeded the Ottoman Empire in Anatolia.
>What about the Turkish empire? How did it relate to them?
The Turkish empire is a term that was often used to refer to the Ottomans. As I've said before, it's debatable whether the Ottoman Empire truly was a Turkish empire for long spells in its history.
Lmao. Kids a little troll
maybe, but all his positions were at the very least tenable, if not a bit oversimplified.
Plus, you know, c'mon, he was like 8 or 9 years old. Thats a pretty fucking smart take on things at that age.
Fucking roaches
Best posts in this thread and one of the less biased on Veeky Forums. Basically at the very least what Veeky Forums would look like if it wasn't for /pol/tards.
Read that again lmfao
>The Ottomans only really recovered their Turkishness after the Janissaries were abolished and the nationalism of the 19th century kicked in.
Even then, they were effectively ruled by an Albanian during the First World War.
Indeed. Even with the rise of the Young Turks, the Ottoman Empire never really looked anything like a Turkish nation state. The Empire had enormous Greek, Armenian, Kurdish and Arab populations at the outset of WWI. A little under half of the deputies elected to the Ottoman parliament of 1908 was non-Turkish.
The heart of the empire was rumeli(european Turkey) for crying out loud. Anatolia was just a manpower vault. That's why the balkan war hurt so fucking much for them.
>this what /his should be
>/his should be Wikipedia summarised
Really makes you think
>Veeky Forums should be a place where the only things discussed are ww2,the crusades and how africans are worthless while everyone calls eachother cuck or shitskin
Great idea user.
>implying rejecting your 'good' idea means accepting your bad idea
Nah m8
What I want to see honestly is everything up until the 25 year rule, with WE posting kept to /int