Now, that the dust has settled...

Now, that the dust has settled, can we agree that the Confederates were actually the good guys and that Lincoln's action were both unconstitutional and outright criminal?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/jrYlR6RwRCw
civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/
youtu.be/KqD6Qk9yS-0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
frontline.org.za/Files/PDF/murder_southafrica (5).pdf
twitter.com/AnonBabble

youtu.be/jrYlR6RwRCw

(no)

>there are still people on Veeky Forums that the american civil war was about slavery instead of northern tariffs and the harmful effect they had on southern economy

I like how the abolition of slavery is still being misused to provide some sort of moral high-ground for the Union and it's pillaging, disorganized army that invaded the South, and raped and murdered millions of American citizen.
Fascinating, how effective propaganda can be, even after 150 years.

civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

I like how you are all faggots who have no idea what they're talking about. Here, have a read from the actual secession letters the states wrote. It was about slavery.

Indeed, the effect of propaganda is fascinating.

>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.

Muh states rights
Muh tariffs

>She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
It's pretty clear that throughout history, again and again, the negro has shown his complete and utter inability of leading a civilized lifestyle. Without the guiding hand of the white man the negro will always fall back to his dark, animalistic nature and seek not to create and design, but to destroy and corrupt what others have created before him.
Consider the state of any contemporary African state run by negroes. Take a close look at South Africa: what has once been a proper 1st world country with the standards of living of a high-end European nation, has been dwindled down to a crime-infested, disease-riddled shithole. That is the sad, but predictable result of setting the negro loose.
Slavery might not have been pretty, but it was the ONLY way of arranging the relations between the race of men and the race of negroes, without the latter interfering with the former's vision of establishing a new, free world.

Good point.

It was a war, get over it.

>five of the union states (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Missouri and West-Virginia) permitted slavery
>these fought a vicious civil war to abolish slavery, while practicing slavery

Did you even read what you posted?
>The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

>The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

etc.

The Federal government trampled all over the constitution and the economical and political interests of the Southern States, so they LITERALLY had no choice but to secede.

Started by Lincoln to get away with murdering as many American citizen as he could.

They may not have been the good guys, but they certainly had the better army.

Slavery was wrong, but seceding was right.

You have 10 (ten) seconds to give an argument why slavery was wrong.

>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws stripping the rights of self-determination from both free and enslaved Americans or they will freeze the government process
>accuse the Union of trampling the Constitution

Numales will call you racist, but you're goddamn right. Without slavery there would be no US.

You have 10 (ten) seconds to sterilize yourself and prevent future generations of being brainlets.

>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws stripping the rights of self-determination from both free and enslaved Americans or they will freeze the government process

>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws

What a load of horseshit.

Not an argument.

What is the Fugitive Slave Act?

A rather sensible piece of legislation.

>forcing free citizens to act against their Christian conscious
>in any way justified

The south went full reactionary and wanted to break from the whole modern era. The ruling class could not abide being chained the north that was moving through all the fashionable isms with the rest of Protestant Europe and wanted to be free to pursue its S.P.Q.R esque ambitions without the dead weight of northern liberals obsessed with memes like "human rights" and "equality" dragging them down.

>Lincoln is elected, who maintains a position that, although he refuses to allow the further expansion of a tired and dying system well into it's twilight years, he will make no moves to deprive the South of their already implemented system of slavery.
>South chimps out at the notion, breaks the Union and proceeds to fire on federal property

Is there any group more delusional in this world then Dixieboos?

>Having no respect for another man's property.

That's the best you can come up with?

The CSA were the true successor to the ancient Roman Empire.

Say, you're a farmer and one day all your cattle runs away. Do you want to see your source of income, the only way to feed your family, returned? Or is it suddenly ok, because of 'muh humanity', 'cows are conscious beings too!' or some other liberal bullshit?

>Christian conscious
This got to be b8.

In hindsight, Lincoln original plan to buy off the slaves and ship them back to Africa would have been better than emancipating them. Too bad that the north didn't have the resources and that some southerners weren't willing to give up their property so easily. Also, glad to see some people being red pilled about slavery. Personally, we should bring back slavery but without the race component. Sjws literally only whine about "much slavery" because it was black people being enslaved

>In hindsight, Lincoln original plan to buy off the slaves and ship them back to Africa would have been better than emancipating them.
Tbh, this would have saved the US of countless problems during the 20th and 21st centuries.
Just imagine how beautiful and prosperous the US would be without gang-violence, riots, looting, drugs, disease and welfare. FFS, Chicago and Detroit would still be inhabitable.

>Personally, we should bring back slavery but without the race component. Sjws literally only whine about "much slavery" because it was black people being enslaved

I disagree. I don't want to see white children being enslaved to rich negroes. Imagine OJ buying a whole damn harem of white girls. This can't be right. Whites should always stand out as the masters of all other races, at least in the US.

you forget that one must still be somewhat wealthy to own slaves. After all they are property and one can't own property without buying it first and since most blacks are poor, in practice most slave owners would be white

>the South started the civil war!
Why is this ahistorical myth so popular among modern leftists and other kinds of mental midgets?

Most are poor. But rich actors, rappers and drug dealers would buy a fuck tonn of white slaves, and treat them like dirt, just to "get even".

well yeah there's that unfortunate side effect. But I'm an amoral fuck who is pro-slavery, did you really think I care?

The Confederates were the ones DEFENDING their land from the Northern Aggression. Sounds like a pretty decent cause to me.

*tips pith helmet*

>people being people is "liberal bullshit"
Fuck off dude.

>we should bring back slavery
Slavery isn't a good system economically, slaves aren't going to work as hard as their free counterparts, and will consume less, you want to being back slavery as a way to masturbate about how much dee epik libcucks have been cucked XD!

>but why is slavery wrong?
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

>Slavery isn't a good system economically,
you don't have to pay your slaves, just feed them. Literally the cheapest workforce you could ever find

>and will consume less
>implying a consumerist society is desirable

>you want to being back slavery as a way to masturbate about how much dee epik libcucks have been cucked XD!
actually no, because I said we should bring it back without the racial component a.k.a there would be white slaves too. actually the libcucks would laugh and cheer that FUCKING WHITE MALES are slaves

>Implying Christianity implies slavery is wrong
I bet you turn the other cheek when Jamal fucks your wife, faggot.

>The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
Yes.
>It's pretty clear that throughout history, again and again, the negro has shown his complete and utter inability of leading a civilized lifestyle.
Ethiopia, and Africa isn't a complete backwatershithole (though most of it is, like most continents is a shithole).
>Without the guiding hand of the white man the negro will always fall back to his dark, animalistic nature and seek not to create and design
Prove it. (mugabe deported significant ammounts of his population, it's hardly suprising that could fuck up a farming industry)
>but to destroy and corrupt what others have created before him.
Prove it.
>Consider the state of any contemporary African state run by negroes.
Alright
>ake a close look at South Africa: what has once been a proper 1st world country with the standards of living of a high-end European nation
Which disregarded the basic right of democracy and ability to have a say in government for the majority of it's citizens, give me liberty or give me death.
>has been dwindled down to a crime-infested, disease-riddled shithole.
HDI in dex in 1990 was 0.621, HDI now is 0.666, you're full of shit.
>That is the sad, but predictable result of setting the negro loose.
Improvements to the country and democracy? What a fuckin' tragedy.
>lavery might not have been pretty, but it was the ONLY way of arranging the relations between the race of men and the race of negroes, without the latter interfering with the former's vision of establishing a new, free world.
No, it's not, slavery was, and remains, a shitty economic move, and antithetical to any form of non bastardised morality.

Stop treating the board as /pol/ with dates you fucking newfag, read the sticky you sly sack of shit.

>ITT upset Southlets

youtu.be/KqD6Qk9yS-0

>just feed them.
Spotted the dense fuckwit that's never owned a house before.

>people being people
Again, some liberal mumbo-jumbo.
A slave is, first of all, a means of production. If your CNC-machine goes haywire, do you want to get it fixed and start machining again, or do you want to hear some shitty rant about machines developing consciousness and being free to decide if they want to work or not?

Because building servants quarters is such a HUGE investment, you could build some crappy shack since you're so stingy. Besides, you only have to look at the historic wealthy southerners to know that slavery turned a tidy profit for slave owners

>how are you neutral Johnny Bull?
>we'll settle next with you

*panicked bonging sounds in the distance*

>implying that a sapient machine would let us know that it's sapient

...

Just so we're clear and everyone is on the record the Alt Right are still pro slavery but think that the CW had nothing to do with slavery.

Right, well you clearly don't understand economics
Sras is the ammount of shit people could produce at this moment, AD is the total demand for goods, AD has multiple components Consumption, Investment, Government Spending and then applied to the total sum of those things is (Exports-Imports) Workers who are being forced to work and only being kept alive by the cheapest means possible are simply going to do less work, Shifting sras to the left, meaning a lowering in gdp.
Now, going over the components of AD
>Consumption
Slaves don't consume and paid low skill workers are going to have less work, meaning consumption will fall, shifting AD to the left and lowering gdp
>investment
I don't believe there would be any notable effect here, remains static.
>Government spending
Less legal citizens = less government spending and tax revenue = AD shifts to the left
>Exports and imports
This one's interesting, if we assume that a country is self sufficent in terms of food slavery may increase international competitiveness and increase Exports, and if you're an utter scumbag then food imports will probably go down as cruel slavemasters don't afford their slaves a living standard better than subsitence.
Here, i made a graph for you.

Go to bed, (((Trump))). You have to be up 6am Moscow time

The negro was brought to the Americas for one purpose only: as means of production.
Under the white man's guidance and supervision the negro worked hard, and managed to achieve a respectable level of productivity. He became an essential part of creating the greatest civilization of the second millennium.
Once the negro was "freed" of that role, by the softhearted humanitarian liberal, his entire existence became pointless.
The negro was stranded in a foreign land with no purpose, no aim, no master to keep him fed and warm. He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life. And yet, at the same time, he could integrate into the white man's society, built on reason, respect for the rule of law and thousand year old-traditions.
He had no choice but to turn to vice, violence, alcohol and drugs. Abolition was equally bad for the negro as for the white man.

Just for context, a rectangle with a lower area would be a weaker economy, while one with a larger rectangle would have a smaller area, and i made a few fuck ups and left off the effect on ad, posting fixed version

Whoops

China managed to become the world's strongest economy, because the bulk of their workforce is essentially slaves. People who claim that slavery is not effective, have absolutely no clue what they are talking about.

>not a single valid argument
>"prove it!" (referring to common-sense observations a 6 yo could make)
>le /pol/ boogeyman
Nice one, reddit!

Respond to your replies, asshole.
>The negro was brought to the Americas for one purpose only: as means of production.
Amazing point, slaves were used in the production of goods.
>Under the white man's guidance and supervision the negro worked hard, and managed to achieve a respectable level of productivity
lol no, slaves will never work as hard as paid free counterparts, being allowed to live and no more is not as motivating as "here's some stuff you can trade for literally anything, thanks for doing your work good bye"
>He became an essential part of creating the greatest civilization of the second millennium.
Alright, i'll concede to that.
>Once the negro was "freed" of that role, by the softhearted humanitarian liberal, his entire existence became pointless.
Putting freed in quotation marks is dishonest, the negro was freed, any claim otherwise is simply not true, Humantiarianism and liberalism aren't ideas to be afraid of, and nobody exists for a specific reason, slaves weren't machines, they were people, they weren't born with a purpose, one was thrust upon them.
>The negro was stranded in a foreign land with no purpose, no aim, no master to keep him fed and warm.
As are all free men of age.
>He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life
Not even going to dignify this with a response.
>And yet, at the same time, he could integrate into the white man's society, built on reason, respect for the rule of law and thousand year old-traditions.
There is no "white man's" society, germanic people and irish people had different systems of government to each other, and the nords, the idea of racial unity in europe is laughable.

Fuck off with these terrible posts.

which of your reich wing radio propagandists told you that?

The HDI of south africa improved post apartheid, it's gdp trippled since 1990 when aparthied was still around, from 112 billion to 350 billion to day, you're full of shit.

Can you post any convincing evidence that you yourself are not a lower form of subspecies of negro and actually less effective, less intelligent, and of less value to society? What is your purpose? What is your aim? I don't see it... you adopt a stance of unfounded superiority that begs the question is this literally penis envy or were you somehow duped?

And a lack of any regulation on their industry, and living standards, and a weak as fuck gdp per capita (seriously, south africa rivals it)

There is no such thing as evil from a historical point of view. There are systems that work and systems that don't.
The Roman Empire successfully run a slaved-based economy for 2000 years.

>yeah bad shit would happen, but i'm an edgy retard, so why the fuck should i DEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>argumentum ad hominem
& Humanities strikes again!

I understand being a newfag, you attack yourself to memes to pass your self off as somebody who actually gives a fuck about history, this isn't history, this is your excuse to soapbox about "Niggerz xd!"
Fuck off and take your shitty posts and ideas with you.

anyone who is pro-slavery is and doesn't admit that it's amoral is delusional. But morality is a spook

>Slavery might not have been pretty,

With solid legislation it could be made decent enough. I think we can all agree, that slaves should neither be killed nor abused. Slaves should deserve ethical treatment, but that doesn't mean that the whole concept of slavery is morally flawed.

>i openly advocate for immoral things
Amorallity in the face of an immoral act is in itself immoral.

>Started by Lincoln
>What is Fort Sumter

Duh. I'm not a hypocrite that pretends to be a good person.

Slavery fundamentally strips free men of their liberty, and any means to protect slaves are going to be difficult to expand upon, citizens of a nation who do work require a vote, they require a certain level of living standards, and deserve to be able to partake in markets as they whish, these things are fundamentally incompatible with slavery, wageslavery is a far more democratic, ethical system.

Replying to the second one; fucking mobile versions...

But there's not a lot of pragmatic arguments for slavery at all, an uneducated lowskilled unpaid labout force does not a superpower make.

>I understand being a newfag
I'm sure you do.
>you attack yourself to memes to pass your self off as somebody
What do you mean by that?
>"Niggerz xd!"
That is pretty much the definition of a straw-man.

yeah that's why America is a third-world shithole

>free men
Interesting term. What does it mean?

You've posted two of these shitty "grand" posts talking about how black people are monkeys, blatantly lied about the state of south africa post apartheid, stated numerous times that without the institution of slavery black people had no purpose, you know these posts have nothing to do with the historical aspects of slavery the board isn't /pol/ with dates, attempting to make an argument fot why a historical institution should bhe brought back belongs on a politics board, not a historical board, saying "& humanities strikes again!" is just a blatant way of scoring brownie points, argument ad hominem isn't exclusive to the humanties shitposters on the board (aka, (You))
or anyone on the board, what is you argument? I've responded to two of your posts and i've gotten "You haven't made a point" as your only counter argument, please explain to me without value judgements why slavery is a good thing, or alternatively, take this non historical discussion off the fucking board.

People outside the system of slavery in this disucussion, free from intervention from any third party into non illegal personal matters in a broader sense.

>Fort Sumter
Illegally occupied by Union troops. When told politely to leave, they stubbornly refused to do so. The South had no choice but to kick out the invaders by force.

It's almost like for the vast majority of the existence of the USA didn't have slavery, and of course there are no shitholes in America.

ok what about the Roman empire?

Unconstitutional, bit not immoral.

In fact I wish someone less shitty than the south had Succeeded so secession wouldn't be a dead movement.

It's dead Jim.

>"grand" posts talking about how black people are monkeys
Now he resorts to outright lies. Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

This post sure pissed off lefty/pol/ and the local breed of cucks. Well done.

DELET THIS
But seriously the roman empire fell for reasons unrelated to slavery. Also, ancient Egypt had slaves.

Both of these civilisations existed when practically all work is what we would consider lowskilled work, getting 10 slaves to push a big rock around takes 10 slaves and a whip, getting 10 slaves to become nuclear engineers is going to be much harder.

fuck off

>putting slaves to work on nuclear engineering
Now THIS is retarded.

>unironically bringing up HDI to compare the standards of living
Is this some kind of sick joke? The rate of violent crime in SA has exploded since the fall of the apartheid. Yes, surely "years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more" is more important than the likelihood of getting raped and murdered of the streets of Capetown. Murder rates in SA are higher than in Mexico, FFS.

>Illegal

Why is it illegal for federal troops to occupy federal property?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
The exact opposite is true regarding the murder rate, the 1980's and 1990's were under apartheid, and murder rates shot up, granted recently they've grown, but the murder rate has "Exploded" is frankly untrue, on rape, you're right southc africa has collosal problems, but i would like it if you could provide me with a source for rape exploding post aparthied, instead of being similar during and post apartheid, HDi also uses Gdp per capita, and life expectancy, not just education, and if the murder rate was high enough then the HDI would fall as a high murder rate would lower the average age of death.

Murder rate is heavily underreported in modern SA.
frontline.org.za/Files/PDF/murder_southafrica (5).pdf

Because the Fort was not on Federal territory anymore once South Carolina seceded.