Romans

Please, present genetic papers that show that the genetic makeup of the italian people was significantly altered post-bronze age.
You can't, of course, but you wouldn't know that because you don't anything about the subject.

Modern Italians are mostly Roman/Italic but mixed with the Middle Eastern people they shipped in

>mixed with the Middle Eastern people they shipped in
wat

>Italians are either swarthy shitskins or Germanics

Make up your mind.

When testing ancient Roman age samples from Britain they found out that one of them was a Middle Eastern person.

They must have shipped in way more Middle Easterners to Italy than faraway Britain.

nature.com/articles/ncomms10326

>Strikingly, one Roman skeleton shows a clear signal of exogenous origin, with affinities pointing towards the Middle East, confirming the cosmopolitan character of the Empire, even at its northernmost fringes.

And no, b-b-but it's just one guy doesn't work as an excuse.

>And no, b-b-but it's just one guy doesn't work as an excuse.
Yes?
If 1000 years of now someone were to fonund a nigerian skeleton in Iceland, would you also state that clearly Iceland had a significant nigerian presence?

Those are Sweedecucks.

Also, interesting how so many of them look chinky. I thought it was just Finns that exhibited this kind of phenotype.

It doesn't work. Middle Easterners were present in Rome and were absorbed in the Italian ancestral population. No reason to think otherwise unless you're retarded.

Whether this was a significant or minor influence is debatable though. Italians could have got their massive load of Middle Eastern DNA from the Anatolian Etruscans and the Phoenicians.

I think if you got a lineup of average people of any ethnicity you'd get pretty similar results.

North Italians got LOMBARDED

South Italians got ARABED

>Middle Easterners were present in Rome and were absorbed in the Italian ancestral population
Then where is the middle eastern admixture in today's italians?
>massive load of Middle Eastern DNA
What?
>Anatolian Etruscans
>Phoenicians
wait what?
Dude, did you mean near eastern by any chance? Like, the levant? Because nothing you're saying makes sense.
Still waiting for those papers, user.

Northern Italians are Mix of Italic and Germanic peoples

Southern Itanians are poop.

>some gladiator guy who was sent to die in an arena and probably didn't spread his genes

Yes, that was the usual fate of the slaves they brought to the empire: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome#Demography

>Roman slavery was not based on ideas of race.[41][42] Slaves were drawn from all over Europe and the Mediterranean, including Gaul, Hispania, North Africa, Syria, Germany, Britannia, the Balkans, Greece etc. Generally slaves in Italy were indigenous Italians,[43] with a minority of foreigners (including both slaves and freedmen) born outside of Italy estimated at 5% of the total in the capital, where their number was largest, at its peak. Those from outside of Europe were predominantly of Greek descent, while the Jewish ones never fully assimilated into Roman society, remaining an identifiable minority. The slaves (especially the foreigners) had higher mortality rates and lower birth rates than natives, and were sometimes even subjected to mass expulsions.[44] The average recorded age at death for the slaves of the city of Rome was extraordinarily low: seventeen and a half years (17.2 for males; 17.9 for females).

>The overall impact of slavery on the Italian genetics was insignificant though, because the slaves imported in Italy were native Europeans, and very few if any of them had extra European origin. This has been further confirmed by recent biochemical analysis of 166 skeletons from three non-elite imperial-era cemeteries in the vicinity of Rome (where the bulk of the slaves lived), which shows that only 1 individual definitely came from outside of Europe (North Africa), and another 2 possibly did, but results are inconclusive. In the rest of the Italian peninsula, the fraction of non European slaves was definitively much lower than that.

Do you even know where the Lombard duchy was?

Leave Bjork alone she is an inuit waifu with a cutes accent.

Um, I known this one! Milan!

I always loved bjork.

>Then where is the middle eastern admixture in today's italians?

Every chromosome.

Some might have come as free men and citizens. Caracalla had very mixed blood and he was an emperor.

>Every chromosome.
Yeah, but it's not recent, that's the whole point. It's older than the romans.

It hasn't been established conclusively that it is from the Etruscans and Phoenicians.
I think the majority could be but it just strikes me as wishful nationalist thinking that the Roman age resulted in no genomic changes.

These look to be roughly speaking equally attractive?

>It hasn't been established conclusively that it is from the Etruscans and Phoenicians.
Well, there's no evidence to suggest that it's recent, so...

But that guy wasn't a free citizen. Gladiators aren't by definition.

Reminder that West Asian admixture is all over Europe and the world, not just the Mediterranean.

What would constitute as evidence?

There just aren't any genetic studies on Ancient Romans. We'd need samples from 1500 BC to 1000 AD to put this question to rest.

There was one on Etruscans which I don't have the link to but they were very slightly leaning towards Northern Europeans compared to modern day Italians.

A Neolithic population from Central Europe, not modern Northern Europeans: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization

>An mtDNA study in 2007 confirmed that the Etruscans were not related substantially to the Upper Paleolithic hunter-gatherer populations of Europe and that they showed no similarities to populations in the Near East. Another earlier DNA study performed in Italy, however, partly gave credence to the theory of Herodotus, as the results showed that 11 minor mitochondrial DNA lineages extracted from different Etruscan remains occur nowhere else in Europe and are shared only with Near Eastern Anatolian people

>Another source of genetic data on Etruscan origins is from four ancient breeds of cattle. Analyzing the mitochondrial DNA of these and seven other breeds of Italian cattle, it was found that the Tuscan breeds genetically resembled cattle of the Near East. The other Italian breeds were linked to northern Europe.

>The latest mitochondrial DNA study (2013) shows that Etruscans appear to fall very close to a Neolithic population from Central Europe and to other Tuscan populations, and are ancestral to the modern inhabitants of Casentino and Volterra. The study also excluded recent Anatolian connection.

This is mostly synonymous with Caucasus Hunter Gatherer but with similar Arabian peninsula and Iran DNA included in the component.

But in Europe it is all Caucasus Hunter Gatherer except in the Mediterranean. Italians aren't just Caucasian influenced like Germans are.

I wouldn't put too much weight on these old mtDNA studies but yes it's possible that the Etruscans and Phoenicians aren't responsible for the Middle Eastern genetics in Italians at all.

The haplos that have a correlation with West Asian admix are J1, J2 and T. There is plenty of it outside of Italy and Greece.

The studies are correct and one of them even detected Near Eastern affinities with Anatolians, but West Asian admix would be mostly from the paternal side. That's why some of them end up different.

Not really plenty and haplogroups don't matter.

We absolutely need to differentiate the CHG that is from Georgian women that Proto-Indo-Europeans from the steppe married and the shit in Italy that is the result of completely unrelated male&female migration.

It's true you retarded fuck...

its false you retarded fuck...

>Not really plenty and haplogroups don't matter.

Other Euros having those haplogroups means they got cucked by West Asians too.

Ugh tired of the meme. Yes trace amounts of mixture exist but it's nowhere near enough to affect phenotype like nordcucks think. The Romans (and greeks too for that matter) were always swarthy.

G is mostly of early Neolithic origin and predates R1b/R1a.

J2 just isn't that common and J1 even less so.

T is a mystery to me.

E1b-V13 is relatively well spread across Europe although at a lower frequency but it's an older subclade which seems to have been in the Europe for a long, long time.

yfull.com/tree/E-L618/

>J2 just isn't that common

It's very common in the Balkans, Switzerland, Austria and France. J1 is the more foreign one that could've come from the Jews and Phoenicians if not during the Copper Age.

The Phoenicians mostly settled in Sardinia and they do not have significant M.E DNA, Etruscans were geentically European, at least those whose corpses have been studied, and that of their Anatolian origin could be a complete legend or at most the distant memory of some Near Eastern merchants settlingalong the coast for trade and setting up some emporiums

Switzerland has 3% J2 according to Eupedia, Austria 9%.

I've always seen Austrians as a Balkan population similar to Bosnians and Bulgars.

Your ideas about J2 men mixing with Europeans just aren't true past a certain geographic and genetic line. A few percentages here and there is irrelevant.

>Austria 9%

And Northern Italy 11.5% as you can see in my pic. Not that much of a difference.

You see people picking J even in Russia and Ukraine. Fuck's sake. How could it have gotten there through recent admixture?

Jews.

Eupedia says 5% J for Ukraine on their site though.

But it's mostly Balkan influence, and Jews.

>this whole thread

Modern Italians are the same as the Romans, just get over it

Most of it is J2. Jews are mostly J1, hence why I said that J1 could be a good tracer of recent Jewish or Phoenician ancestry to some extent.

These maps aren't fully based on sourced material btw.

The owner of Eupedia is quite an autistic mastermind and often gets carried away with his theories so much he can't really distinguish facts from his own fiction.

He has two samples from Sweden and one of them is from Gotland with 0% J2 and the other from all over the country which has 2.5%.
Somehow he imagines it's concentrated in that particular area.

This is why I don't take Eupedia very seriously, but whatever. It's hard to find these haplomeme maps from any other source.

Why does it matter if Romans mixed with Middle Easterners a little? They considered them more intelligent and civilized than snowniggers. That's why there were emperors with Middle Eastern ancestry but none with Celtic/Germanic ancestry. It was the Germanic barbarian rapefugees who caused the collapse of the WRE.

Italians are really not that swarthy though. Some people have Sicilians and other southerners in mind when they think of Italians because of their association with mainstream Italian culture, but the truth is that the peninsula has a bit more variety than that.

...

They were jealous of them

>Then where is the middle eastern admixture in today's italians?

See pic related

>birthplace of Roman Empire & Renaissance

>jealous with eternal Krauts, niggers of Western Civilization

You are not Italian.
How do you know this? Are you a genetic expert?
But acutally, it doesn't even take an expert to realize that your post is retarded.

You know, this isn't a very good way to judge the phenotypes of someone. Ashkenazi Jews are more Middle Eastern than South Italians yet they're much lighter in terms of pigmentation. This should be a good representation of Italians on average as it is a collage of 286 of the 314 athletes that participated in the olympics. The ones that weren't included were just people of foreign ancestry.

Forgot to quote:

if I spam enough haploautism charts I don't understand maybe Veeky Forums will treat me like le serious anthropologist XD

This PCA is outdated as fuck and has been pretty much disproven

It looks like it's correct about where Jews should plot though. I don't have any other one with them on it.

the germans were impious and deserved everything that happend to them. From living in huts, to the HRE getting raped, to the destruction of Germany once and for all post ww2. Romans knew of their evil ways and punished them when they could

germans were lanklets, romans were manlets

manlets fucking hate lanklets

>tfw no Venetian gf

Is she a real blonde btw? She looks a lot like Marion Le Pen; blonde hair, brown eyes, sharp features, etc.

I'm not sure about Federica, but Marion is a brunette. She's just really careful to not let the brown root show most of the time.