Why does Turkey cause such a uniquely large amount of butthurt here? Is it because of the Ottoman Empire?

Because everyone plays Europa Universalis IV and is constantly fucked over by the Ottoman Empire

>so much cringe

*cringe*

60% recycled /int/ memes
25% recycled /gsg/ memes
15% pure Byzaboo/DEUS VULT LARPer autism

>Conquer some of the weakest provinces in Europe
>zerg = turk
>KEK WE R OMNZ

>heavy decline of eastern mediterranean during their rule
>stagnation of balkans on such scale it becomes worst shithole in europe
>constant genocides near the end of their rule
>destruction of byzantine empire
>nearly no cultural or scientific progress (all artists who made portraits of sultans were europeans and besides sinan you would be hard pressed to find any significant intellectual)
>Islamization of Balkans and asia minor
Are there any positive things about Ottomans?

No it's because they are more masculine than we'll ever be

>implying we're not >>>r/eddit so play ottomans and post caps there

They put an end to a centuries old LARP'ing experience.

Because of Erdogay mostly. I was fucking impressed when I learnt Mustafa Kemal & the turks were the first arabs to embrace democracy and that did it off their own backside right off the bat after ww1, even had to fight the frogs& the bongs to get done asap. Real commendable will to survive & adapt.

But then since Menderes in the 50s-60s, it slowly started to decay, pandering to islamaboos began the norm and so did military coups. Even had a little pogrom in the middle of this for good measure in 58. So obviously fastforward to today and it's pretty obvious why Westerners find Turkey to be a terrible and disgusting failure.

They could have made MENA great again.

Pretty sure the Ottoman Empire was never this large.

it truely doesnt. the saracens were worthy adversaries and these niggers that came after are just eurasian steppe piss basket

Its accurate except they only held those Persian territories for a couple of decades but this is their greatest extent

>I learnt Mustafa Kemal & the turks were the first arabs

arabs

Probably because you held everybody you conquered back a couple hundred years

Touche but you get the point. They were the first muslim majority country to do that.

/thread

>including east Thrace
>not including Armenia

WEW.

I can't speak for westerners, but as a Balkanbro I guess it annoys me that Turks actually believe their shitty, retrograde Empire was a blessing for non-Muslims and that we "betrayed" it when we rose up against it.

I'm not going to try and collectively emotionally blackmail any group, like chinks do to japs or jews do to germans or niggers do to whites in the US, but I'm certainly not going to accept the Ottoman Empire actually contributed much of value to the world beyond a few minor arts and crafts, some copypaste architecture and a puppet show. And its level of brutality makes European colonial empires look positively benign.

This.

I'm not going to spend time pan-handling for sympathy for what they did to us, that sort of stuff is for non-whites.

But it's just that they combined savageness with complete incompetence (huge tracts of land were allowed to go out of cultivation for example), they had a lot of early military successes but they never actually turned it into commercial, scientific or even cultural success.

Their empire literally required an entire class of ethnic Greeks to run it. Turks were so fucking dumb and savage they required GREEKS to run things for them. Let that sink in.

>greeks ran the ottoman empire

is this true?

>Why does Turkey cause such a uniquely large amount of butthurt here?
Success breeds jealousy, friend.

The asshurt is palpable. The Ottomans for hundreds of years were the most advance and most influential power. Fags who cry about their decaying period ignore their god tier administrstive abilities, innovative military prowness and the need to preserve what was before them. No. I am not claiming they were the best or even great, clearly there were stagnation in some areas. But just as a firm truth, the Romans didn't contribute shit either.
establishmentblues.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/the-lasting-legacy-of-the-ottoman-empire/

Tell me about Suleiman, why does he wear the Onion?

To keep the Wallachian's away.

...

>The Ottomans for hundreds of years were the most advance and most influential power
>I am not claiming they were the best or even great
Make up your mind
>god tier administrstive abilities
>lol sultan gets ur land xD
there's a reason it fell apart.
>innovative military prowness
Maybe in the Middle East with gun powder; hardly much innovation elsewhere.

Not him but phanariots basically ran a lot of the major administrative positions, yeah.

>were the most advance and most influential power

Advanced in terms of what? Manufacturing? Engineering? That would be the Northern Italians, as far as the Western Hemisphere is concerned. The reason the Ottomans couldn't control the Eastern Med in terms of naval power is because they couldn't manufacture galeasses as capably as the Venetians and other Italian Maritime states could.

The Ottomans achieved virtually nothing of note technologically, scientifically or otherwise. Even if you want to discuss culture, they left no great literature - no Shakespeare or Tolstoy or Moliere.

>I'm not going to spend time pan-handling for sympathy for what they did to us, that sort of stuff is for non-whites.
Off yourself you balkannigger

>Off yourself you balkannigger

What's your race?

In before you avoid the question.

I am Greek but I hate scum like you

If only we had killed every last Greek communist subhuman after the civil war, we wouldn't be dealing with our present day ailments

Go back to rioting you piece of shit, maybe you can destroy some old man's little business in the name of worker's solidarity. Fuck the Greek left.

>take a european metropolis and turn it into an islamic shithole

ftfy

straight edge

Nothing "edgy" about killing communist nation-wrecking traitors, just normality.

>they left no great literature - no Shakespeare or Tolstoy or Moliere

Come on, how much do most people know about Ottoman literature of all things? This is a weird category to talk about anyway, better keep to technology and science which can be quantified more accurately instead.

But that's pretty much the case for the whole world outside parts of Western Europe since the late middle ages. Other Islamic states and China could barely compete in equal terms on that front in the long-run. By the 16-17th centuries, "the West" was clearly ahead.

And Byzantium overall was poor in that regard, as well. With the exception of the early period, Greek fire, Philoponus etc. little was added. In the late period, they resorted to translating Arabic works into Greek to keep up with the current knowledge, much like Western Europe was doing at the time.

>Other Islamic states and China could barely compete in equal terms on that front in the long-run. By the 16-17th centuries, "the West" was clearly ahead.
>what is the tale of three kingdoms

Underrated.

>what is the tale of three kingdoms

I was talking about science and technology. Wasn't the context obvious?

And sure, certain bodies of literature are more known in the West than others. Maybe they're 'objectively' superior too but it's a harder matter.

Because every Turk on this site thinks that the Ottoman Empire was somehow the pinnacle of Civilization.
Also the denial of foreign influence on Ottoman culture and the Ottoman Court is stupid. Just like most Turkic Conquerers they shed many aspect of their old culture and worked in large parts of Iranian or sometimes Arabic culture. But it seems like no turk realizes that.

Cancerous retarded fanboys. I actually irrationally hate the ottomans now because of the autists from here.

Modern turks are unbearable. This leaves a bad bad taste when all the exposure to the Ottoman empire you get is HUEHR OSMANLI IMPERATURK

Check out the list of grand Viziers, 90% of the time it's a Greek, an Albanian or some sort of Serb.

What they did to Hagia Sophia can never be forgiven

Hah, I find it funny how whenever there's an obvious aspect of Turkish contemporary culture they picked up from Persians or Byzantines, the Turks on Veeky Forums claim it was from "ancient Turks".

>Other Islamic states and China could barely compete in equal terms on that front in the long-run. By the 16-17th centuries, "the West" was clearly ahead.

It was ahead of that long before then. It was a Hungarian who crafted the Ottoman canons that brought down the walls of constantinople remember? And they were defeated at Lepanto precisely because their ships were inferior to European ones.

Other Islamic states and China could barely compete in equal terms on that front in the long-run. By the 16-17th centuries, "the West" was clearly ahead.

>Come on, how much do most people know about Ottoman literature of all things?

If I'm missing some classic of Ottoman literature you're free to point it out. We can also talk about architecture since, you know, their greatest architecture was either an Islamized Armenian or Greek who built in an explicitly Byzantine style, then there's their paintings which are limited to miniatures in a copypaste of Safavid styles etc etc.

Ottomans never accomplished much culturally or scientifically. They accomplished a fair amount militarily though.

The iron-e

Im non white and Im interested too, Is it because they're the only non western people who gets the west the taste of their own medicine? They must be doing something really right to piss western right wingers this much, if they're irrelevant people would just ignore them

I guess this is how western people will react to Asians as well when the time come

You moron, Asiatics and Middle Eastern powers have been attempting to invade Europe for millenia: Persians most prominently. In fact it was Sassanid aggression against Byzantium and the decades-long exhaustive conflict that followed that paved the way for Islam to fill the power vacuum of the Near/Middle Eastern region in the first place.

>I guess this is how western people will react to Asians as well when the time come

Obvious /r/asianmasculinity faggot detected.

In what universe were the Greeks ever as wantonly savage and aggressive as the Asian powers they fought against?

>In what universe were the Greeks ever as wantonly savage and aggressive as the Asian powers they fought against?
Alexander chimped out and set out to conquer the world.

Sparta was a wontonly savage feudal state, people had rights under Xerxes

Alexander and Genghis are like night and day. Genghis didn't build a single city of note or leave any meaningful culture of his own behind. Alexander built two dozen and left Hellenistic Culture behind, whose influence stretched as far as Japan.

>wontonly
>wonton

Obvious Asian American detected.

Xerxes had a river whipped because its banks refused to "obey" him, his courtiers had to put their hands over their mouths in his presence because they'd otherwise pollute his air.

The notion of Persia "inventing human rights" and what have you is a modern Iranian propaganda meme.

>Is it because they're the only non western people who gets the west the taste of their own medicine?

Eh? Non-western people have been committing atrocities against Europeans for much longer than the Ottomans were even a thing. The Arabs in Iberia, or the Golden Horde come to mind.

>I guess this is how western people will react to Asians as well when the time come

About that...

Gaijin hunters aren't the average women, also sauce plz

>aren't the average women

Protip: The average Chinese women feels the same way about White men as you do about White women - i.e. demonstrably more physically attractive than their same-race counterparts.

>also sauce plz

Some amateur porn dump somewhere.

take your interracial cuck fetishes back to

On /pol/ it's the whites\Swedes who get cucked

On \His\t, they do the cucking.

>300 is a historically accurate film
Did you know the Greek city states were massive proponents of slavery, whereas slavery barely existed in the Persian empire

>whereas slavery barely existed in the Persian empire

t. encyclopedia iranica

You use garlic for that you moron

>ruined europe
>had fun doing it

IK you're joking, but to anyway who thinks Achaemenids practised wide-scale slavery...

>The basis of agriculture was the labor of free farmers and tenants and in handicrafts the labor of free artisans, whose occupation was usually inherited within the family, likewise predominated. In these countries of the empire, slavery had already undergone important changes by the time of the emergence of the Persian state. Debt slavery was no longer common. The practice of pledging one’s person for debt, not to mention self-sale, had totally disappeared by the Persian period. In the case of nonpayment of a debt by the appointed deadline, the creditor could turn the children of the debtor into slaves. A creditor could arrest an insolvent debtor and confine him to debtor’s prison. However, the creditor could not sell a debtor into slavery to a third party. Usually the debtor paid off the loan by free work for the creditor, thereby retaining his freedom."
-Dandamayev

It's a legitimate and reliable source:
"not just a necessity for Iranists [but] of inestimable value for everyone concerned with the history and culture of the Middle East"

It's not like it's a biased source, since the Achaemenid period (non Muslim) is [I think] the only period where slavery was not practised, and the encyclopedia notes this.

>Regarding the Achaemenid Empire, there is a great deal of textual evidence for the existence of slaves during their empire. Just as we have several sale contracts of slaves from Neo-Assyrian, Neo-Babylonian, and Seleucid Empires from Uruk (in Babylonia), we also have some from the Persian Period. One such document (Text 143, from Strassmaier, 1890, Inschriften von Kambyses) talks about the "branding" of the hand of a slave in both Akkadian and Aramaic. Similarly, two Aramaic documents from Achaemenid Egypt cite a similar practice of slave-branding (Texts 22 & 41 from Grelot, 1972, Documents araméens d'Égypte). Perhaps surprisingly, the same practice exists in Quintus Curtius Rufus' Alexandrian history. At V.5.5-6, he describes some Greek prisoners of war in the hands of the Persians, and they also have the same branding with "Persian letters." Now, they are not directly named "slaves," but the connection is not difficult to imagine.
>literally nothing more than a semantic distraction

Really fires up the old neurons.

Personally, I never claimed that slavery did not exist at all. I specifically stated "wide-scale" slavery, such as was seen in Spartan or Roman society. This is because it literally says in the Encyclopedia Iranica that the proportion of slaves to free people in the Achaemenid empire was incredibly small. They also made an exception for prisoners of war, who were sometimes used on building projects - I would imagine to deal with the aftermath of war.

The point is, that the Achaemenids practised it to a much, much, smaller extent than what was expected of the time, especially in comparison to their contemporaries, the Greeks.

From what I have seen, there was no equivalent of Helots or whatnot in the Achaemenid empire, but I would be interested to see evidence of this. I wish you good luck in finding some.

Besides having massacred millions of Christians?

I fucking hate when you american faggots think all muslims are goddamn arabs

>massacred millions of Christians
This is a thread about Turks and not k*rds, friend.

They ruined the balkans, they stole christian land and they commited fucking GENOCIDE and wont even admit it.

>A turk denying genocide
HOW SURPRISING

>Armenian Genocide
>Massacre and forced deportation of Greeks from Anatolia, especially Smyrna
All at the hands of the Ottoman Empire, Young Turks, and Attaturk.

Dont forget the assyrians, they went after all christians in the empire

May their memory be eternal.

...

>Armenians used to live in E.Anatolia and Van in particular
>now only k*rds live there
>the same k*rds that massacred them even before the supposed "Armenian genocide" happened during the Hamidian massacres
I sure hope none of you are Armenians and actually defending k*rds. What would little Kayiane think as her sacrifice was for nothing as she was nailed to the cross by those filthy half-apes screaming "BIJI K*RDISTAN"?

Hell, just look at modern Iraq and Syria as the k*rds do the same thing there against the poor Assyrians.
You know, the same Assyrians they massacred in Salma and assassinated the Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East back then.

But keep blaming the Turks and hold hands with them like good little cucks.

Go away Roach.

Literally out of the woodwork comes he.

I thought so.

...

>"Armenian genocide"
This is why people hate you, start facing facts.
>Why are you defending kurds?
Kurds have definetly done some bad shit and are still doing like you mentioned against assyrians but the kurds werent in power, the kurds werent sending orders, the turks did that and it is the turks who hold ultimate responsibility for the genocides but you people can never face that instead you deny it altogether or blame it on the kurds.

>balkanics hate turks
>armenians hate turks
>kurds hate turks
>arabs hate turks
I wonder why?

>They ruined the balkans
balkanshits are always in perpetual butthurt about irrelevant shit that happened centuries ago

>they stole christian land
proper retaliation for the crusades

>and they commited fucking GENOCIDE
every country has committed some genocides or atrocities and took place a long time ago so it doesn't even affect you personally, get over it

Byzboos are such cringy spergs, consider suicide.

I don't know if you've noticed but this board is full of christfags

Everyone hates them, user.

>k*rds weren't in power or sending orders
But that's wrong, E.Anatolia was like the wild west with K*rdish tribal chieftains calling the shots and loosely answering to the Sultan not to lose the power they had. Eventhough the Christians outnumbered them (atleast back then), they still had to answer to K*rdish authority and pay them taxes and give away daughters cause of actually having military control of the region.

They are opportunists to the core and when they saw the Ottomans losing power and "some elements" of government calling for Armenian relocation, they jumped at the opportunity and systematically "relocated" them to an early grave or wooden cross.
Hell, even the exodus from Turkey to Syria was carried out by K*rdish butchers, that I'll admit answered to Ottoman authority but still murdered them rather than go on with the plan as so many still managed to survive the journey and escape establish communities in Aleppo/Deir ez-Zoor.
Even Ottoman soldiers were so disgusted by the authrocities carried out by them that they started to hang K*rds to try stop it.

Hell, it even leaked into Iran with K*rdish tribal leaders there wanting independence of "their ancestral lands" in W.Azerbaijan and started butchering the Assyrians, Armenians and Chaldeans there until the Persians managed to regain control of the region.

So really, I have no problem admitting Turkic incompetence of the whole spectacle but ignoring how K*rds got away with the perfect crime back then just to repeat it today in Iraq/Syria is just like spitting on the face of so many Armenians and Assyrians that died back then. Really bad taste.

>proper retaliation for the crusades
The crusaders didnt get to keep any of it and they never heavily changed the demographics of the area either so it doesnt count.
>and they commited fucking GENOCIDE and wont even admit it.
The last part is what mattered and what you said is therefore irrelevant.

>proper retaliation for the crusades
Which was in response to, wait... yep, Muslim raids, pillaged, persecution, and wars against the Christians. Both Turkic and Aran Muslims.

>bugspray.png

For a board of historical intellectuals that dislikes /pol/ there sure are alot of refutes related to their way of holding debates in this thread.

>tripfaging on an anonymous site
>while avatarfagging
>while unironically shitposting
Please sudoku yourself, Memet.