Why does Poland not get credit for performing objectively better than France in WW2?
Poland: >outnumbered 2-1 by the Germans >outnumbered anywhere from 2-10 to 1 in every area of materiel >what materiel they have is qualitatively inferior to German materiel >almost no motorization >attacked from both sides with zero help from their allies >Germans want to exterminate them >still hold back the Germans for five weeks >destroy/cripple 832 of their tanks so that when they attack France a year later they have less tanks than they used against you >inflict 50,000 casualties in initial campaign and inflicted hundreds of thousands of casualties in a guerrilla war over the next five years; lose 600,000-700,000 casualties (mostly POWs) in turn >150,000 troops manage to evacuate and form the Polish Armed Forces in the West >200,000 others fall back behind Soviet lines and surrender without a fight and later become the Polish Armed Forces in the East >tens of thousands more escape the Germans and form the core of the Home Army >become the single most troublesome occupied province of the war >armed forces in exile proceed to fight with distinction on every European front for six years
France: >numerical parity to the Germans >have more tanks and guns than the Germans, though fewer aircraft >equipment largely qualitatively superior the Germans, Germans still using pleb-tier Panzer I and Panzer II 'tanks' mostly >have the most trucks of any army in the world, meanwhile the Germans are stuck with horses >have several allies and only fighting on one front >Germans just want to conquer them >fall in six weeks, barely longer than Poland despite having ten times as many modern tanks and four times as many soldiers >Germans actually lose fewer tanks in France than they did in Poland >inflict 150,000 casualties on the Germans while losing nearly two and a half million (mostly POWs) in turn; casualties due to resistance activity in the next five years are negligible >be one of the quietest, most cooperative provinces occupied by the Germans, and a major source of their industry >only 35,000 troops manage to evacuate (because the British; French troops don't evacuate to their colonies on their own initiative) >all but 7,000 of them demand to be sent back to France to join the Vichy >from then on French military forces in exile are tiny and mostly North African anyway >resistance movement only sprouts in notable numbers when the Americans are already knocking on the Germans' door in Normandy
Levi Jenkins
It does.
Angel Baker
>be polish gov >enough naive for beliving france and uk really want help poland, not just make hitler attack her first to better prepare their defense >don't want cooperate with soviets >thinking they really can def two month even when polish force was almost 2x outnumbered, have 8x less tanks and 10x less aircafts and surrounded from three sides with 1,8k km long border with germany + germans attack from slovakia
like idk what those retards was thinking those days
Jose Gray
Because people still spread idiotic memes, like the "Polish lance hussars charged the German panzers". Some people legitimately think the Polish military was retarded.
Also, at least here in America, we downplay the fact that Stalin invaded Poland.
Jayden Mitchell
its honestly not even a real debate, the Poles out performed the French
but as far as regcognition goes, its because France has more clout on the international stage, it kind of masks how much Poland over achieved and how France under achieved during WW2
the only real thing that bothers me is people always act like the French resistance was an effective direct action force
Samuel Sullivan
Because they didn't.
The only european countries west of the Soviets that have any rights to brag about their war performance against the Axis and germany in particular are greece and belgium. Everyone else are just memeing losers trying to revise history to their favour when in reality they all got stomped into the dirt with trivial ease and waited out the rest of the war while the Soviets did the real fighting for them.
Austin Miller
also, the Poles were more willingly to fight. The decimation of a generation of French men in WW1 was a big factor for them, the Poles on the other hand felt that they were fighting for survival
Jacob Gomez
>be pole >get bullied by every one for centuries >you know you will be fucked hard if they take your cunt >try to resist
>be french >germany exists because the USA is retarded >don't want to waste more mens when hitler will not fuck you hard anyway >let it go
Jordan Ramirez
DAMAGE CONTROL
>We totally meant to let him win haha
Cameron Brown
>germany exists because the USA is retarded
fucking what? Are you claiming that Germany would have been dismembered after WWI without us?
Connor Nelson
He blames you for not sending even more of your people to pointlessly die for french revanchism and Churchills butthurt.
Caleb Richardson
WESTERN FRONT ALLIED EFFECTIVENESS
REIGNING BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS tier >1. a. UNITED >1. b. STATES >1. c. OF AMERICA
marginal power gap
DILLIGENT ALLIES TIER >2. England
POWER GAP
>4. Polish troops in exile >5. O' CANADA
adds numbers to our side i guess
>8. Belgian troops in exile >9. DeGaulle's Free French forces >9 3/4ths. Free French forces not commanded by DeGaulle >10. Dutch troops in exile >11. Dutch Resistance
wut r u doing nigger
>111. Phantom divisions used to decept the Germans before Operation Overlord >112. French Resistance
Jaxon Ward
Western Allies effectiveness scale is the special olympics of warfare, I'm not sure why you bothered.
Tyler Morris
>Letting yourself be conquered by genocidal lunatics because you're lazy and hate America
Eli Myers
it was entertaining desu
Bentley Sanchez
Was there any reason to bring up France other than to stir shit?
Aiden Morris
French need to be taken down a peg here desu
Bentley Martinez
t. Lindybeige
Matthew James
OP here. Yes, there was a point. To demonstrate how hard the Poles fought by comparing them to a major power in an objectively much better situation.
Brandon Peterson
the question isnt "France v Poland"
it should be who was more helpful, Canada or France
Josiah Morales
One has to keep in mind that the Wehrmacht was an unblooded army going into Poland. Fall Weiss taught the Germans a lot of shit, and made it so that the force that would defeat France were a veteran force.
Poland did do much better than people give it credit for though, what with even getting close to turning the situation around at Bzura, even though they were defeated.
Poland did have big kielbasa boners for cav, though, not the least because mechanization was expensive and cavalry was what wrecked the russians in the Battle of Warsaw two decades earlier. They were far more effective than most give credit for since they largely fought as mobile infantry and not meme knights.
Samuel Collins
Objectively Canada. France was a net negative for the Allies, they rolled over for the Germans and provided them with a shit load of industry and resources.
OBJECTIVE ALLIED POWER RANKINGS
Won the War Tier >Soviet Union >United States
Main Contributor Tier >United Kingdom/British Empire
Great Help Tier >China >Poland >Canada
Nice To Have Around Tier >Yugoslavia >Australia
At Least You Tried Tier >Greece >Benelux >New Zealand
They Were There? Tier >Brazil >Ethiopia >Albania >Mongolia
Net Positive For The Germans Tier >France >Baltics >Czechoslovakia
Connor Richardson
Nice argument.
I'd say Greece deserves to be in Great help tbfh
Nicholas Williams
I dunno, it doesn't feel right putting them in the same tier as Australia and Yugoslavia.
Mason Barnes
The UK did basically nothing except moderatly annoy germany. The Soviets did all the fighting in europe and the U.S. helped with material support. If we count actually mattering to the war, in europe we only got the Soviets and the Greeks doing things that actually matter (the greeks successfull resistance delaying Operation Barbarossa was a massive boost in the Soviets chances to regroup and push germany back, without that, Soviets could have easily lost).
Everyone else was on the Western Front and thus irrelevant because the Western Front didn't matter except for not letting the Soviets through that point.
William Jackson
agree with all of this except the baltics
they had a severely underrated partisan force, more effective than the French
Angel Thompson
>Except moderately annoy >What is the entire Air war
The UK not only outpaced German air production, but bombed German factories and starved German's of resources through blocking the Suez and Horn of Africa.
Lincoln Richardson
>don't want cooperate with soviets
WHAT? I've heard about the German option because Hitler really wanted Poland as his ally but with fucking USSR? You're aware of their plans right? And that there was absolutely no way of an alliance with them right? It was literally the one country that was our enemy in every scenario.
Leo Williams
>irrelevant because the Western Front didn't matter ebic
Anthony Carter
I've never understood the dick measuring contest "who contributed the most to the victory in WWII" for those who had to deal with the Soviets (or both the Germans and the Soviets) the war was nothing but an alliance and then fight of two of the worst forces in Europe. I wouldn't treat taking sides with one of them as anything to be proud of. It wasn't a good war. That's why I like reading about the Western Front. It's not as depressive.
Liam Torres
>but bombed German factories and starved German's of resources through blocking the Suez and Horn of Africa. It could only do that because germany needed all its airforce in the eastern front and the other point is just passive resistance not actually fighting germany.
Jayden Nguyen
Not him, but that's bullshit. The Germans never allocated the majority of their fighter force to the Eastern Front.
Wrong again, The RAF outnumbered and outperformed the Luftwaffe by the end of 1940. They had totally ramped up aircraft production. Even with the Luftwaffe's full might, they failed miserably in Britain.
Kevin Jackson
Its neither a challenge to be better than the french or to defeat the germans in warfare.
Ayden Hughes
> Everyone else was on the Western Front and thus irrelevant because the Western Front didn't matter
Total bullshit, starting in mid 1943 the Germans had 40% of their army and the majority of their air force and navy arrayed in the west (and related areas like Italy and the Atlantic). Which got obliterated by the Americans and Brits of course.
Meme unsupported by actual history. The Germans attacked at the perfect time and on schedule.
Aaron Hernandez
>1940s >Polish population is in Poland, Polish government is in the UK
>2010s >other way around
Nathan Sanchez
>>get bullied by every one for centuries
One century really (the 19th). Or two if you want to count the 20th.
And Poland dished out bullying just the same when capable.
Andrew Harris
Depends where. Despite the poles hating the fuck out of the Soviets, at least the soviet satellite states held the Poles in high regard. There was even a rhyme that glorified Polish resilience during WWII
Brody Brown
whats the rhyme?
Jacob Diaz
>Czechoslovakia You're counting countries that didn't even exist during WW2? Bohemia was annexed by Germany and Slovakia was a German ally. The only "Czechoslovakia" during the war period was represented by a bunch of retards renting a hotel floor in London (exile government).
Isaiah Thomas
>I'd say Greece deserves to be in Great help tbfh Yeah they do deserve it.
Jack Peterson
>Great Help Tier >>China
China didn't do shit in the war.
Camden Wright
So, no Norway, Romania, Hungary, etc? Fuck off halfwit.
Benjamin Jones
Yeah, they just kept much of the Nip ground forces busy, to the point that most of the people the Ameriniggers fought in the pacific were garrison troops, no biggie.
Murrica only met elements of the Veterans in China by the time of Philippines and Okinawan campaigns.
Nolan Morris
>Yeah, they just kept much of the Nip ground forces busy
Japan didn’t need more infantry, they needed more aircraft carriers, planes, subs, food, ammo, etc.
Even if Japan not invaded China at all, those additional infantry wouldn’t have made a difference.
In fact, Japan would have been better off demobilizing them and putting them to work in factories.
Caleb Ross
>1 million > 38 millions >>sci
Kayden Cruz
I'm not denying your argument, but we bullied like 5 out of 8 neighbours within 20 years
Charles Evans
So fighting for your independence is now "bullying your neighbors"?
