Hey, I'm new here. Just wondering if you consider Islamic rule over Spain and Sicily as somewhat positive? Note: I'm making a distinction between the earlier conquests and the conquests by the Ottomans, who had a history of despotism. Which isn't all that surprising given the fact that, well... THEY ARE TURKS LOL baka
Here is my conversation with a Sicilian friend.
Me: You mentioned the Islamic invasion of Sicily and there wasnt any rape?
> Him: No, besides some legends and tales there probably wasn't a lot of it. It was generally a pretty benevolent rule, the Berbers never abused or oppressed the natives. There were a lot of Islamic scholars that traveled to Sicily during that time, said it was a beautiful place. Talked about how Christian women and Muslim women dressed in the same fashion
Me: Was the hijab enforced on christian women?
> Him: I'm not sure if enforced if it just came about naturally. Technically the only thing required of Christians were they stood up when a Muslim entered the room and they couldn't be in the bathhouses at the same time as Muslims
> Him: Yeah it was usually higher probably. I'd say the architecture from that period had Latin/Greek/Islamic elements. The Berbers were very liberal about womens rights as well during that time
Me: Liberal in what sense?
> Him: Women could inherit land and that sorta thing. Laws protecting widows and such I think. A lot of that stuff bled over into Norman Sicily as well. Sicily was probably one of the more functional multicultural societys, but instead of collapsing it sorta became homogenous over time
Join our telegram group pertaining to politics and history if you're interested:
sure I think there was positive stuff. The modern muslim hate is all political bullshit. the positive thing about all religions throughout history is they unite a land and stop the fighting.
Nicholas Ward
maybe it's more accurate to say they unite different tribes under the same creed.
Ian Bennett
I wouldn't say religion was something that "united" Iberia. It certainly united the early arab elites and their berber mooks that would rise up against them. Native leaders adopted Islam, but I'd say that had more to do with the nature of Medieval leadership: they were expected to be military dudes and they didn't want to pay tribute to some other guy, so they wouldn't want to be Christian sheep under Muslim occupators.
For most of the people, life prolly didn't change all that much. Sure, laws were diferent to an extent, but you are still paying into the same protection rackett that is lead by just about the same families, that just happened to take in foreign racketteers.
Did you bother to read anything I said? The conversation was anecdotal, but you can find vast amounts of vindication of the claims. The person is a right wing Italian who is an ethno nationalist fyi, so it's not just some liberal bellyaching propaganda for Muslims. I'll take a read of your link though.
Elijah Campbell
The ideas that they created some Utopia are as big a meme that Christian's were utterly ravaged by Muslims during occupation.
Sure during times of war anything can go wrong but once they occupied that territory I wouldn't say people were rioting in the streets or rebelling all too often. The Spanish themselves that "rebelled" were mostly those from austurias that were just never properly subdued. We could even say Christians in those areas would have contributed greatly to knowledge in the Islamic world.
Josiah Roberts
Culture and scholarship flourished in Islamic Spain, which later resulted in Latin-speaking Europe gaining a huge number of philosophical and scientific works through translation.
Jacob Harris
Depends entirely on the time period you're looking at.
Basically at the height of the Caliphate of Cordoba, I'd argue you probably couldn't find a more culturally prosperous and diverse contemporary civilization. Other periods were shit for Jews and Christians though.
Adam Morales
I don't think you're going to find a straight answer to such a question. The Muslims had Iberia under control for around 600 years was it?
You're going to find positive things and negative things throughout the time period.
Blake Wilson
>The Muslims had Iberia under control for around 600 years was it? lot less actually
Henry Sanchez
The muslim architecture copied lots from the Byzantines
Matthew Torres
And Byzantines from the Romans and the Romans from the Greeks and the Greeks from the Egyptians, and so and so and so on - until you reach some guy painting in a cave
Just give a civilization it's due credit
Angel Morgan
No....Byzantine architecture's domes and characteristic pillars were uniquely distinct from Ancient Rome...but the Muslims ripped off the byzantine architecture almost identically.
Not surprisingly since the Arabs were nomadic tent dwellers until 600AD
Jaxson Rodriguez
Nothing positive comes from Islam.
Aiden Sullivan
True. But pillars, domes, etc are principles of even current architecture. There isn't much to add on to that apart from rare attempts of such futuristic stuff
Apart from that, the interior design is absolutely distinctive. Muslims rely on mosaic/calligraphy while the Byzantines relied on fresco/icon designs.
Nolan Wright
Early Islamic architecture had as much Persian influence as it did Byzantine.
Parker Walker
>whom
Xavier Sanchez
>But pillars, domes, etc are principles of even current architecture.
The byzantine pilllars and domes are distinctive, and if you look at Mosques across the Ottoman Empire or from Muslim Spain you'll find clear knock-offs of Byzantine architecture.
It's not too hard to fathom, the Islamic civilization began it's expansion in the shadow of the Byzantine Empire.
No, that's a Zoroastrian temple converted into a mosque in the 8th century.
Arabs did not have their own architecture.
Wyatt Richardson
Why do you try so hard
Jackson Green
>Arabs did not have their own architecture.
Juan Ortiz
Yes. For both Spain and Sicily: administration and centralization, considering Muslims barely ran feudal governments.
The Normans greatly took over the apparatus of government left by the Muslims after they seized Sicily from them, making Sicily for a short while the most well organized European kingdom.
Spain did it too, to some extent, though not as total as Roger did.
Jose Adams
A lot of new inventions were created, so it did do something right
Bentley Moore
"a temple with an ornate, Greek-style facade, and known as The Treasury."
That facade is Greek architecture. Arabs stealing again. They're tent dwellers.