Did the Nazis truly view Slavic people as subhumans or was it a more political thing (anti-Communism)...

Did the Nazis truly view Slavic people as subhumans or was it a more political thing (anti-Communism)? I ask because the Nazis did try to cooperate with some Slavs (the Croatians come to mind first and foremost). Indeed, according to Wikipedia, up to 20%* of the Wehrmacht's manpower on the Eastern Front in the initial stages of Barbarossa was foreign, with half being Russian. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_collaborationism_with_the_Axis_powers

*Don't actually know if this statistic is accurate or not.

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The Nazi racial policies were quite based on necessity.

We need to control a messy region, without committing massive numbers of troops? Welcome, fellow Aryan Croatians!

The war with the USSR is going well?

Fuck off Ukrainian untermenschen, we have no need for your wish to form twenty divisions to fight the Soviets!

Latvians and Lithuanians? You are somewhat smelly, you can serve, but in Schuma battalions, and may not be awarded the Iron Cross - here, take this smelly easterner medal.

The war with the USSR has gone to shit?

Congratulations, great nations of Europe! You may now form Waffen SS divisions! Iron Crosses for all!

Definitly racial cultural and geopolitical thing, depending on what person you'll ask.

>I ask because the Nazis did try to cooperate with some Slavs
If ayys come to Earth and try to conquer us, I'm sure you'll find people collaborating with them.

As for the collaborating Slavs Germans needed manpower, so they had no problem with using them, as long as they were not on Lebensraum.

If you read Goebbels and Rosenberg's diaries you'll find that the sub-human (which to be honest is a bad translation of untermensch should be lesser human, like how you have lesser boar greater boars adn shit in warcraft) meme originates from the Wehrmacht propaganda office which competed with Goebbel's own propaganda office. Both Rosenberg and Goebbel's tried to stop this propaganda because it was completely stupid. The army propaganda guy however thought the moral boost was more important and also it made it easier to follow the 'new war' mentality Hitler wanted fought in the east, aka no geneva conventions.

Ultimately, who can say who was right? I tend to side with Rosenberg and Goebbels on this one but its alot easier to do so when you know how the war ends.

sorry I meant to say,

>did the nazis truly view slavic people as 'subhuman'.

The answer is a firm no. The whole meme arose out of realpolitik not a part of the core ideology.

Slavic people who were aryan enough and not asiatic were to be integrated into the reich. The rest moved east of the urals.

>the rest moved east to the Urals
Wow, the Germans are truly great and considered Slavs their equal! You should also add that those 'aryan' ones were supposed to be Germanized.

They actually started doing this in occupied Poland.

Hitler loved importing Slavs for slave labor. I also remember reading something about him touring the Ukraine and being taken aback by Ukrainian qt peasant girls and saying that every German household should have one as a domestic servant and by mid 45 there were hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian teenage girls scattered throughout Germany. 12 year Hans prolly dicked them lel

>The answer is a firm no.

Oh, that's why Russian POW's suffered 60% death rate? That's why they were used as guiney pigs for gas chambers? That's why nazis had no issue with burning Slavic villages by hundreds?

This propaganda worked pretty well. Soviet people were mostly poor and simple peasants. Most of them were illiterate living in terrible conditions. It was easy to convince the soldiers that Slavs are a sub-human race ruled by the Jews.

Here is a quote from Erich Koch who was the Reichskommissar in Ukraine appointed by hitler from August 1941–October 1943:

>"We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than the population here."

>"Ukraine children need no schools. What they'll have to learn will be taught them by their German masters."

>"If I meet a Ukrainian worthy of being seated at my table, I must have him shot."

Also did you know that his wife Ilsa, was known as the "Bitch of Buchenwald" due to her intense cruelty towards inmates?

>Most of them were illiterate
Wrong desu, esecially in the west.

Untermensch literally translates as "under-man" so sub-human is correct.
The idea of the Slavic people being in vastly inferior was not propagated by a single "propaganda guy", it was a widespread belief.
The Slavic population in the occupied lands was to be divided based on how "aryan" they were, that's correct. Those deemed fitting to live normal lives were to be moved to a different part of the country, their names and surnames to be germanised and they wouldbe forced to learn German. The rest (a vast majority in some places) would be either enslaves, murdered or banished; some plans called for expulsion eastwards but some thought it would be a problem later on and proposed sending them off to the Americas.

...

This can easily be countered by the fact that Slovakia and Croatia who are also Slavic were treated like any other normal allies. So the reason for atrocities in the USSR probably wasn't slavicness but something else.

Yes, it can be countered with the fact that they were useful at the moment. And for the Croats, there was a bullshit "theory" about them being Goths which helped with the fact that they were Slavic collaborators.

Sorry but your theory holds no water really.

>This can easily be countered by the fact that Slovakia and Croatia
Those two were not in the way of Lebensraum and they were willing to bow down and serve. Nazis saw Slavs as slaves, so why should they punish good slaves?

>So the reason for atrocities in the USSR probably wasn't slavicness but something else.
Like what? What has USSR and Poland (The two who experienced teutonic barbarity at it's finest) have in common except for being Slavic?

>The rest moved east of the urals

Most of European Russia was not planned to be colonized so they'd rather stay there. As for the area that was to be Germanized (the extent of which is not clear, Himmler's far reaching plans were considered utopian by others), those "unworthy" of Germanization were to be deported beyond the Urals according to a conception of the RSHA; Konrad Meyer's version of the Generalplan Ost is against such a deportation and rather suggests that those natives who have to make way for German settlers should get parcels of kolkhoz or sovkhoz land as private property.

>either enslaves, murdered

Is there a proof of this?

It's not my theory, that's one of the stories they used to excuse their cooperation.

>Is there a proof of this?
It was already in effect. Furthermore, it was planned in Generalplan Ost.

Poles aren't Slavic.

>It was already in effect. Furthermore, it was planned in Generalplan Ost.

A bit more precise? Where does the Generalplan Ost talk about murder/slavery?

ITT retards who never read anything from nazi racial scientists and gobbled up Allied propaganda instead.

Using terms like "blitzkrieg" and "lebensraum" are dead giveaways.

all these german apologists here

Is there any unbiased source about the Nazis? Even the primary sources from the Nazis themselves (at least the crazy ones) I feel would be biased and slanted.

I honestly wonder why people consciously ignore stuff written by Gunther and Rosenberg and instead gobble up literature written by Anglo historians. It legitimately boggles the mind.

Stop acting like an idiot.

Western historians are respectable, while the the Nazi ones are not, because in the west they are not bound by totalitarian regime and are allowed to criticize the state, while in the 3rd Reich you were not allowed to think outside of what state wanted you to think.

Some western historians are respectable, Anglo ones are not. It's a weird combination of seething bias, low IQ and unspeakable laziness.

Maybe because even the Nazis didn't take Rosenberg seriously.

Himmler talks about slavery and destruction of certain ethnicities. And forced labor, kidnapping of children, extermination of polish intelligentsia, deportation of Poles from Warthegau prove that they were planning to do this.

And deporting millions of Poles, Ukrainians and Russians to Siberia would definitely led to millions of deaths.

Poles are not Slavic. See

Nazi Germany racial policy wasn't actually entirely racist, otherwise they would worship Jews as a super-inteligent race worth having around.
But their propaganda and justifications were very much racist.
there were basically two scenarios if you bordered the Reich:
>do you have something we really want for ourselves (fertile land/money)
subhuman scum ought to be exterminated
>do you have something we don't really care for (like if you country is a bunch of useless mountains or is too hot/cold)
become our fascist puppetstate and we'll figure out how to make a story on how you are actually of Aryan origin to keep things going (or else)

This user

is pretty much right.

Hitler was in pretty good relations with Serbia's Prince Paul before the war. Nazi architects even built plans to model Belgrade Fortress in the style of pseudo Greek idealism (like they would Berlin into Olympia). British intelligence did a coup, threw Yugoslavia in front of Heer tanks to buy some time for beady eyed people, and as soon as that happened you have Hitler coming out with proclamation that Serbs are at fault for WW1 and that he will make an example out of that pesky country.

Which he did. Fucking Churchill.

And? There was literary no Polish party that wanted to collaborate with Germans. Polish far-right movements were especially anti-German, while Russians weren't seen as a serious threat:
>Roman Stanisław Dmowski [ˈrɔman staˈɲiswaf ˈdmɔfski] (9 August 1864 – 2 January 1939) was a Polish politician, statesman, and co-founder and chief ideologue of the right-wing National Democracy ("ND": in Polish, "Endecja") political movement. He saw the aggressive[citation needed] Germanization of Polish territories controlled by the German Empire as the major threat to Polish culture and therefore advocated a degree of accommodation with another power that had partitioned Poland, the Russian Empire.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Dmowski