Tfw you'll never see the unique development of native American civilization

The Summerians were fucking brutal too, but we still categorize them as a civilization

What tech would a society need to make the midwest productive? The tropics in central america required intense manual labor, you'd think that would cause a lot of developments in agriculture, which would eventually spread northward

You would think but that is not always the case. At the risk of speaking too much about stuff that I am not the most familiar with. Remember the Midwest is actually really dry and irrigation is absolutely needed for it to be productive. Also, lacking metal tools to till the soil make farming in the the hard peat much more difficult.

Also, the areas that could support agricultural societies did. Look at the mound building societies of the Mississippi.

>dominated over all of their neighbours.
>cities could supply over a million citizens
>had a written system, mathematics, and an advanced understanding of astronomy
>Developed ingenious aggriculture systems and made notorious projects of engineery to control their capital's environment.
>Had trade routes and stablished law.

>"But muh single fact out of context, that I do not care to research about in the first place is enough to say a group is no civlization".

This is bait right? right?!

>civilization has to be nice

>Plaiins Indian
Whats life like for you, im curious. Got any first-hand knowledge on your culture you can part on us?

why didn't they just write it down?

The great plains had a thick layer of sod so dense you could build houses out of it, built up over endless thousands of years and bison stampedes. The grass itself would grow to as high as six feet tall in certain areas. Its root structure was so thickly woven into the earth that settlers called it Nebraska marble because it was so fucking hard to cut it seemed as hard as rock. The entire ecology has changed from then till now.

At the bare minimum, you need heavy steel or cast iron plows. Hand tools would not cut it (literally).

>I'm plains Indian

Did Aztecs even extend that far north?

It's more likely than not that their civilisation plateaued anyway.

Well, as people have pointed out Mexico is in fact in North America, but assuming by Northern American you mean "in what would become Canada and the United States" ...

There's two answers.
1. They got a later start than the Meso and South Americans. Maize, squash and potatoes etc all come from Mexico etc and South America. They were domesticated there first, and spread north later, and it did take a little while, because there was a big fucking desert in the way. Earlier, more efficient agriculture -> earlier start on the whole civilization thing.

2. There WERE plenty of groups in the US that had what you'd consider "civilization," and the areas with large cities were pretty much the ones you'd expect - making allowances for whether or not the climate allowed for agriculture they largely followed the spread of maize and so on.

If they'd had another few hundred years of development there probably would have been large cities on par with Teotihuacan and Copan and Tenochtitlan in the United States.

Also, I'm sorry, but the idea of any group of Plains Indians regularly raiding the Aztecs is an absolute fantasy. Their trade networks stretched that far, sure, but no group from the Plains was in regular contact with any group in central Mexico.

Also, plenty of Plains tribes practiced human sacrifice too.

I remember plato saying something to the effect that writing made you dumber because you'd never remember knowledge if it was in a book and constantly acssesible.

It's pretty rare for cultures to independently develop writing. Almost everyone just borrows it from their neighbors. We just think writing is trivial because we are all taught it as children.

The mayans did invent a system of writing though

feels good t b h

>pottery and corn
wtf I want to be an indian now

>tfw when the Spanish destroyed most of the Mayan records
WHY?? WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY

if they couldn't do it in however many tens of thousands of years before the white man came, what makes you think they could do it later?

t. Juan 'Montezuma' de Cruz

mayans had no alphabet. The savages deserved it tbqh

Nice try eternal Spaniard

>retarded statements

What did he mean with this?

>plains indians
>hatred with aztec
nigger they had limited contact with the southwest, at most they would have had indirect long distance trade even further north in the plains.
It's very sad, we could have had three major cultural influences, east, west and american.

It was syllabic mixed with logograms and often combined, like japanese writing.

Plains Indians had no contact with superior Mexica, Chief Chugs on Mouthwash.

Development was slow, in the way technology spread but it was advancing. Metal working arrived was just getting started in mesoamerica and the inkas were already a little ahead of them. If they had horses this technology and other ideas would have spread much faster. If the inkas already had bronze, mesoamerica had copper alloys going, an iron age in a couple hundred years was inevitable. Lack of animals was the biggest setback really, it made progression much slower (in addition to arriving on the continent the latest of all humans). If they did have animals though, the disease factor from eurasia would still be devastating in the americas, but it would be equally devastating to people in eurasia and africa who had no immunity to american animals. The threat of european colonialism would be neutralized by the fact that everyone would take a massive hit.

True

>if they couldn't do it in however many tens of thousands of years before the white man came, what makes you think they could do it later?
>horses?
central asia
>cattle?
either india or levant
>writting?
sumerians
>ironworking?
mesopotamia
>architecture?
levant
>ships?
egypt
>astronomy and mathematics?
india
>gunpowder and compass?
china
>science?
greek colonies in turkey

There's a reason Greece was the origin of the Western civilization and not the European regions far from the Asian continent. Mesoamericans were isolated from all those civilizations and developed in an area 1.5 times the size of the Iberian Peninsula and still managed to keep up and even outperform in hydraulic engeneering, medicine, astronomy and genetic engeneering.

Cotton, for example, was independently domesticated in America, Arabia and India. The difference is quite clear.

I couldn't care less, they weren't doing anything, and they got supplanted by something better.

Boo fucking hoo.

>Plainsnigger this triggered by the Mighty Maize

>they got supplanted by something better
lmao

>Tenochtitlan was founded on an islet in the western part of the lake in the year 1325. Around it, the Aztecs created a large artificial island using a system similar to the creation of chinampas. To overcome the problems of drinking water, the Aztecs built a system of dams to separate the salty waters of the lake from the rain water of the effluents. It also permitted them to control the level of the lake. The city also had an inner system of channels that helped to control the water.

>During Cortés' siege of Tenochtitlan in 1521, the dams were destroyed, and never rebuilt, so flooding became a big problem for the new Mexico City built over Tenochtitlan.

>Mexico City suffered from periodic floods; in 1604 the lake flooded the city, with an even more severe flood following in 1607. Under the direction of Enrico Martínez, a drain was built to control the level of the lake, but in 1629 another flood kept most of the city covered for five years.

>Eventually the lake was drained by the channels and a tunnel to the Pánuco River, but even that could not stop floods, since by then most of the city was under the water table. The flooding could not be completely controlled until 1967, with the construction of a Deep Drainage System.

>The ecological consequences of the draining were enormous. Parts of the valleys were turned semi-arid, and even today Mexico City suffers for lack of water. Due to overdrafting that is depleting the aquifer beneath the city, Mexico City is estimated to have dropped 10 meters in the last century. Furthermore, because soft lake sediments underlie most of Mexico City, the city has proven vulnerable to soil liquefaction during earthquakes, most notably in the 1985 earthquake when hundreds of buildings collapsed and 45 000 lives were lost.

mexico is central america

...

You need steel plows to make use of most of the Midwest.

...

>eternal Spaniard
>that's a bad thing
U angry dirty tiraflechas?

>implying the Spaniards didn't do right by letting the spics sink into the earth where they belong

Considering all the great things that were lost yes it is bad.

They weren't spics but injuns.

Civ V has the Iroquois also but i think they are dlc. You could just set up a game where it's only Native American civilizations and just see what the AI does on it's own. Hardly accurate but still interesting.

Actually the Iriqouis confederacy was pretty darn advanced in regards to their level of government. They actually built a lot of a stuff; in fact, they were so effective at deforrestation of the north east that it changed the climate in europe.

I have been wanting to do a mod for age of empires 2 set in precolumbian america. I don't have the skills to do one though and am pretty illiterate computer wise in this regard. I can do accurate concept art, drawing designs and research for the project though.

how does comparing spain with the aztecs explain the differences between the aztecs and the oneota

your spelling of Iroquois was so bad it made me forget how to spell it

Just play AoE III

I want to play as the Incas and Mississippians though. That game only has 3 native civs.

>hydraulic engeneering
>genetic engeneering

lol retard detected

>writting?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing#History
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispilio_Tablet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tărtăria_tablets

>all architecture is from the levant
>all science is from greek colonies in turkey

>ironworking?

Extremely vague term, but modern ironworking methods descend from the Hittite methods (who pioneered purification techniques, but the oldest work of iron we have are nine beads from meteoric iron found in Egypt dating to 3500 BC. The Hittites dwelt in Anatolia.

>cattle
>Archeozoological and genetic data indicate that cattle were first domesticated from wild aurochs (Bos primigenius) approximately 10,500 years ago. There were two major areas of domestication: one in the area that is now Turkey, giving rise to the taurine line, and a second in the area that is now Pakistan, resulting in the indicine line.

Oh wow you're wrong again. I wonder if this could be a pattern.

>horses?

The western part of the Eurasian steppe actually.

>The difference is quite clear.

What difference? Do you think you're being clever?

Aztecs and Maya centuries before them had hydraulic engineering. The Maya built possibly one of the earliest large suspension bridges in the world in the 7th century. Not to mention the engineering of the Andes far south who developed independently.

>>genetic engeneering
>lol retard detected
lol, not an argument

>writting?
oldest literature is still from sumeria (mesopotamia, whatever)

>all architecture is from the levant
the oldest and most advanced one certainly is

>all science is from greek colonies in turkey
western science foundations certainly are

>Extremely vague term, but modern ironworking methods descend from the Hittite methods
who took it from the mesopotamians, citing egyptian iroworking of meteors is as valid as saying native americans developed ironworking for doing the same
you literally didn't even make it past the first paragrapgh of the wiki
>Mesopotamia was fully into the Iron Age by 900 BC. Although Egypt produced iron artifacts, bronze remained dominant until its conquest by Assyria in 663 BC. The Iron Age began in Central Europe about 500 BC, and in India and China between 1200 and 500 BC.

>There were two major areas of domestication: one in the area that is now Turkey, giving rise to the taurine line, and a second in the area that is now Pakistan
so india and levant

>The western part of the Eurasian steppe actually.
here, literally first paragraph of the wiki
>recent discoveries in the context of the Botai culture suggest that Botai settlements in the Akmola Province of Kazakhstan are the location of the earliest domestication of the horse

>What difference?
95% of the world's produced cotton is the one domesticated by mesoamericans

>Oh wow you're wrong again. I wonder if this could be a pattern.
>Do you think you're being clever?
fuck off reddit

Why do white people like to appropriate and destroy other people's culture?

Whites have plenty of culture though

>you will probably finally see the development pf continental Africa
>it will be probably Western-looking shit
>their best buildings will probably be shit skycrapers you could see in any other major western city

FFS

I should reread this, it was comfy as fuck

what about the lombards

Isn't the english language a germanic language and therefore part of the white culture?

Its latin influenced and our alphabet is too.

North American civilization was apparently quite advanced prior to the arrival of Europeans, at least on par with the big three Mesoamerican cultures.

It's just that the spread of disease and other factors caused it to collapse. The Indian tribes that European colonists met when they settled the east coast were Mad Max post-apocalyptic-tier warbands and tribes in comparison.

But you did. Drunken red savages as opposed to sober red savages.

>Europeans
>civilised
The Aztec administration was to them what the Catholic Church was to us in the middle ages. They didn't make you work at the mines until you died a slow and painful death.

>being this triggered over a superior civilization
>Plains Indian

Aztecs died out m80

what were they doing in the plains anyway before horses and euros came?

they did

They were not comapred to the Aztecs

This has to be bait. You know most of the indian groups in OK aren't actually even originally from there right? The US just at one time designated OK as a refugee dump to put the indians that were on more valuable real estate elsewhere.

And that's ignoring the retarded comment about plains indians "raiding" the aztecs lol

Bottom right is the burning of some Cuban chief, but still fuck the Eternal Iberian.