So which civilization was more advanced, Inca or Aztec?

Inca

They had well built roads, domesticated pack animals, larger population from domesticating a more nourishing crop, larger territory from a more advanced centralized government, early bronze working and larger dependence on soft metals like copper in general.

nigga

But Aztecs had a writing system.

Inca had knots.

Also Aztec "writing" being complete is arguable iirc

Incas had their own take on rope-based computers called Quipo. They also knew the secrets of Byzantine Fire or some equivalent. Not to mention somehow built a temple underneath Lake Titicaca, and knew that it looks like a Puma leaping for a rabbit from space. They were arguably more advanced than our own civilization, probably through access to the Akashic Records or some other arts lost to history.

How much time would have taken the Incas to catch up with the Europeans had they not been colonized?

>Not to mention somehow built a temple underneath Lake Titicaca,
It's pre-Incan

>and knew that it looks like a Puma leaping for a rabbit from space.
Bullshit

Current thinking is that the Quipu encode a language and are thus writing.

Aztecs by far, the Inca were one of the first full civilizations in South America but the Aztecs built on millennia of high civilization in Mesoamerica.

>Inca had knots

Quippu is not a writing system.

Aztecs didn't need quippus because they had graphic symbols for numbers, including zero.

>built on millennia of high civilization
That doesn't automatically make them any more advanced than anyone else other than the people they build on.

You mean how much time would it have taken the Europeans to catch up to the Incas. An experiment that's still ongoing.

Titicaca literally means "Stone of the Jaguar."

>Quippu is not a writing system
It kinda is but STFU for a second because you need to remember this next part: It doesn't matter. A writing system does not cancel anything else out, it is not a goal post you get to and are now immediately better at everything.

>graphic symbols for numbers, including zero.
copied from the Maya

>That doesn't automatically make them any more advanced than anyone else other than the people they build on.

Except for the fact that every civilization builds on those that went before, and the longer the tradition of civilization, the higher the technological and social development. So it really kind of does.

>copied from the Maya

So what

Are you implying that the Inca didn't?

Writing systems are a core part of how we define a society as a civilization rather than just a culture. Once you have writing, you have the accumulation of knowledge, and progress begins to snowball.

Didn't what? Benefit from the people before them? Yes of course, but they had a much shorter tradition to draw upon.

>You mean how much time would it have taken the Europeans to catch up to the Incas. An experiment that's still ongoing.

Hahaha good one. The Incas were literally still in the Bronze age by 15th century

I understand that but in this particular circumstance it doesn't make the Aztecs more advanced just because.

It can be used to argue that successive generations maybe would have overtaken everyone else but not that at the time of their demise one was better than the other simply because writing.

But was that tradition better than what the Aztecs had? You can draw from the past all you want but if what you presently have is still shit, it's still shit.

>it kinda is

Unless you consider numeric mnemotechnics to be a writing system, then no, quippu is not a writing system.

I've had this discussion before. Peruvian nationalism is so obsessed about this that some of them have even tried to argue that decorative figures in Inca clothes are an undecifered scripture.

Some of them also pretend the Incas sailed to Australia.

>I understand that but in this particular circumstance it doesn't make the Aztecs more advanced just because.

Sure but it explains why they were. I really don't know what you've been reading if you think the Inca are comparable with the Aztecs, the Inca were at a much lower stage of development in pretty much all areas.

Not even close, no.

Explain yourself by all means.

There's a lot more to Quipu than just tallies and mnemonics, they DO encode linguistic information.

ancientscripts.com/quipu.html

>Peruvian nationalism
Not peruvian, actually if anything I would be a Chicano (really I'm just American), inca just seem more advanced from a cursory glance, I'm certainly no expert. That said however you seem extremely biased on the matter, at least as much as any "Peruvian nationalist" you would deride. I would caution anyone that listens to you to take whatever said with a grain of salt and certainly do encourage you to use citations whenever appropriate.

>Sure but it explains why they were.
In what way? I consider the building of proper roads, widespread use of primitive metalworking intended for tools, domestication of beasts of burden, and domestication of higher yield crops to be greater signs of technology than proto-writing. However as previously stated I'm no expert. I'd be happy to hear what the Aztecs had in comparison.

>I consider the building of proper roads, widespread use of primitive metalworking intended for tools, domestication of beasts of burden, and domestication of higher yield crops to be greater signs of technology than proto-writing.

Well the Aztecs had all of those, plus full writing advanced math, developed theology, a governmental system more in line with feudalism than the absolute god-kingship of the Inca, which is the oldest and presumably therefore the simplest type of government, developed private commerce while the Inca used the primitive redistribution system, advanced astronomical /astrological knowledge as best exemplified by their famous calendar, and on and on. The only area the Inca were more developed was in metallurgy, which can be attributed to a quirk of geology (the Andes are rich in gold and copper while Mesoamerica is metal-poor).

>developed theology
>muh imaginary friend is better than yurr imaginary friend

>best exemplified by their famous calendar
Not theirs and probably not a calendar

>Not theirs

That's my POINT you moron. They had millennia of culture to draw upon, including such things as the calendar systems most famously elaborated by the Maya. This is why they were so significantly more advanced than the Inca, precisely because they didn't have to invent a calendar from scratch because the people before them had already done that.

>Well the Aztecs had all of those
I have never seen any examples of Aztec roads and were they as extensive or as well built?

And as far as I know the Aztecs didn't have metalworking outside of ceremonial or decorative uses.

>plus full writing advanced math,
Math is a given but again the writing is iffy.

>developed theology,
I honestly don't see how this is a plus in an thread discussing technological advancement. Care to elaborate
>a governmental system more in line with feudalism
Or how a decentralized state loosely held together state implied greater advancement.
>absolute god-kingship of the Inca

Not entirely accurate and an over simplification something even I as a layman know.

>advanced astronomical /astrological knowledge
Can't argue against it don't know enough about Incan astronomical knowledge to make a point but I will say that:

>as best exemplified by their famous calendar, and on and on

I'm not entirely certain that was a calendar, is that verified by independent sources?

>And as far as I know the Aztecs didn't have metalworking outside of ceremonial or decorative uses.
Or potatoes, which I also included in when you said the Aztecs "had all of that"

>They had millennia of culture to draw upon
Not that user but I will again remind you that the depth from which you draw your knowledge does not at all equate to your current level of knowledge which is what is being discussed.

That word "Civilization" means "the art of living in cities".

Resume discussion with proper nomenclature.

No, I don't think we will.

Both cultures are similar: both had monumental architecture, advanced agricultural technics, complex government structures... But it is plain that Aztecs had more advanced math/astronomy, and an actual writing system. So i would sat they were more advanced.

Inca had better metalworking, domesticated beasts of burden and delicious potatoes.

What beast of burden is there in Mexico to domesticate?

And Aztecs also developed a form of currency, while Incas never abandoned Barter.

None that I know of but so what? I'm not saying the Aztecs were retards because they didn't have any beasts of burden.

Technological development is non-linear and a comparison of two civilizations of nearly the same technological development is not possible.

>I have never seen any examples of Aztec roads

Looks like a dirt path.

Imo they beat each other in certain areas, but overall fairly even. They had completely different systems to begin with so its hard to compare. The incas leaned closer to collectivist/communist and the aztecs towards capitalism.

this is a road

Aztec civilization was barely Aztec. They had the city of Tenochitlan, and tributary states. The Inca were a real nation.

>History automatically progresses positively

Wew lad

Did the incas even record their history?

Yes, but the Spanish burned most of their records.

are you implying they recorded history in knots?

Yes.

>tfw no knot historians in the modern era or knot language classes.

>all of the anti-knot prejudice in this thread

triggered

Incans performed skull surgery. That's pretty advanced.

So their history is knot accurate?

> The incas were communist/socialist that had no currency/commerce whatsoever
Honestly, outdated theories of the mid-twentieth century, a lot of new information has come to light since then, from rediscovered accounts to archaeological finds, for example now we know how prominent were the merchants, especially the chincha ones, to the inca empire and the use of coins (mostly in the former chimor and the ecuadorian coast) and axe-monies as currency.

The Incans. They actually knew how to work metals and how to handle conquered states. Anyone saying the Aztecs are just mexicans being nationalistic fucks.

The Inca were so advanced that we still can't figure out how they did this or those perfectly spherical rocks.

While based, I'm pretty sure we could replicate the Aztec tearing a guy's heart out, stealing the Mayan calendar or building a pyramid no problem.

>can't figure out how they did this
Mind you, that is just code for "we're unsure how they accomplished X" not, "we cannot do what they did at all! They were so mystically advanced!"

We have much better ways of doing what they did and ours are much more advanced than theirs.

>perfectly spherical rocks
Not "perfectly" spherical also not Inca.

Not really, still means they know something we don't that could potentially let us accomplish things we can't do now. Just because the walls are the only remnants doesn't mean it's the only application of this ability.

titicaca actually means boobies poop

In this thread Mexicans, chicanos, and Peruvians argue over what the best pre-columbian civ was.
But considering I hardly ever see Peruvians on here, that's unlikely actually.

With that said, I'd argue it was the Inca that was more advanced due to their government, impressive engineering, and infrastructure.
Really both the Incas and the Aztecs were slightly more advanced than the other in some respects, but I'd wager overall it was the Incas. If the classical Mayan civilization was still around at the time the old world met the new world then I would say the Mayans would be probably be the most advanced.

>Not really

Ya rly

>still means they know something we don't

No they don't, we know how to cut stones, we're very good at it. In fact we're so advanced we made something that's basically liquid stone.

>the only application of this ability.
>this ability

We have known how to cut stones for a long time user, what we don't know is how THEY cut THEIR stones.

>If the classical Mayan civilization was still around at the time the old world met the new world
Nigga they were and what's more the Maya are still around now.

>falling for the ica stones hoax

Next you'll claim the Incas rode dinosaurs.

You don't know what you're talking about, read up on what makes those walls special. Dumbass.

Honestly, there seems to be this misconception that besides the Incas and Aztecs, everyone else in Mesoamerica and the Andes (and by that extension, the rest of the americas) were still hunter-gathers and lived on their own shit.
This is by no means true, both Mesoamerica and the Andes were hotbeds for civilization, and many, many states popped up in those areas.
I think the first known advanced agricultural state in the Americas was Norte Chico
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norte_Chico_civilization
Ultimately it's more that the Mesoamericans were luckier in that they wrote more shit down (Well, in a form closer to ours) and was still very divided, with Aztec dominance not being completely absolute, thus the people who recorded the mesoamerican histories had a larger selection to draw from, and wasn't completely aztec-dominated.
Whereas the Incas used quipu's to record information (interestingly enough, according to classical chinese historical sources, before they developed logographic writing they apparently used a system of tied knots too). The Spanish burned many of these quipu's and we can't really translate the remaining ones.
It could be just speculation, but the Inca were more skilled in culturally assimilating their enemies than the Aztecs, and ruled over a much larger empire. Thus, while there is certainly evidence for a deep, deep sedentary history in the Andes, we may find a lack of continuity in oral history due to this skill of cultural assimilation.

>equivalent of Byzantine fire
More on this please

He said classical maya civilization. There's a difference between that and the postclassic and especially to current maya culture.

>They actually knew how to work metals and how to handle conquered states.
In both cases the king was killed and the heir died by smallpox. But only one of them went to civil war for that.

>larger population from domesticating a more nourishing crop
Aztecs ruled at least half of the population the Incas empire in a sixth of the Inca territory.

>They had well built roads
So did Aztecs, they didn't build them throughout the empire because revolting armies would have used them to march against the Aztecs since they didn't force their culture on the subjugated people. The Incas were not different from the Spaniards who destroyed the culture of the Americas.

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Fifth Letter of Relation by Cortes to Charles V

What is going on in that work of art?

Some years ago some Peruvian "archeologist" claimed to have found some stones near a town called Ica.

Ica stones portray dinosaurs (as in pic related), Incas performing brain surgery, and even aliens. For years they have served Peruvian nationalism in their claims of Quechua racial superiority, and creationists in their claims of a young earth.

The drawing were obviously fake and even their creator recognised so. And yet you can still find the rocks in Peruvian museums and their pictures are all over the internet supporting some wacky claims.

...

...

Reminds me of the crystal skull thing of the aztecs. I think it's still in the british museum.

...

>You mean how much time would it have taken the Europeans to catch up to the Incas. An experiment that's still ongoing.

In what way were they more advanced, specifically? I notice you never said.

The Sheres are Chibcha, not Inca.

Some were, the guy who claimed they were not measured them following and incorrect technique. Then again, most of them are damaged because of erosion and a lot of them were blown out with dynamite because there was a myth the Amerindians hide gold inside them.

Yeah the other one was bussy eating children and barely knowing how to smith gold necklaces.

Not even a question. The Incas ruled an empire that not only was larger, but also better administrated. They made the Aztecs look an Indian designated shitting street.

Seriously, the only people that actually defend the Aztecs are the Mexicans.

>one was bussy eating children
>The Incas performed child sacrifices during or after important events, such as the death of the Sapa Inca (emperor) or during a famine. They were then killed either by strangulation, a blow to the head, or by leaving them to lose consciousness in the extreme cold and die of exposure.

>barely knowing how to smith gold necklaces
>I will now, however, turn to another subject, and rather acquaint my readers with the skilful arts practised among the Mexicans: among which I will first mention the sculptors, and the gold and silversmiths, who were clever in working and smelting gold, and would have astonished the most celebrated of our Spanish goldsmiths: the number of these was very great, and the most skilful lived at a place called Escapuzalco, about four miles from Mexico. After these came the very skilful masters in cutting and polishing precious stones, and the chalchihuis, which resemble the emerald. Then follow the great masters in painting, and decorators in feathers, and the wonderful sculptors. Even at this day there are living in Mexico three Indian artists, named Marcos de Aguino, Juan de la Cruz, and El Crespello, who have severally reached to such great proficiency in the art of painting and sculpture, that they may be compared to an Apelles, or our contemporaries Michael Angelo and Berruguete.
- Bernal Diaz del Castillo, True History of the Conquest of New Spain, Chapter XCI

>They made the Aztecs look an Indian designated shitting street
Incas didn't even have trade, they were in the Oriental Despotism tier of production.

>not knowing about the Acambaro figures

>never seen an Aztec road

How can you be this ignorant? There were giant stone causways connecting the Aztec captial with other cities all around the lake they were build on

>And as far as I know the Aztecs didn't have metalworking outside of ceremonial or decorative uses.

They had copper axes and spears, it just wasn't as commonly used as obisdian since they and most other central mexican cultures preserved to reserve workable metals for religious uses. West mexican cultures had some bronze working going on as well.

The spainish weren't able to figure out how to replicate the hydro-enginneering shit the aztecs had around the lake along with the causeways, dykes, dams, and other systems that kept shit from being flooded, so the spainish said fuck it and had to drain the lakes, which to this day has caused drought and soil liquification issues in mexico city, which still ends up occasionally flooding anyways