Is it ethical to shoot someone in defense of your property if they are not an immediate threat to you or others?

Is it ethical to shoot someone in defense of your property if they are not an immediate threat to you or others?

No. You might be able to get away with it legally though.

>your property
You don't want to start this discussion...

Please tell me you follow a personal code of ethics.

In the animal kingdom, territory is serious business. Any transgressions result in a fight because the assumption is that they will take resources within and have proven themselves to be a threat. Unlike dogs that mark territory with piss, humans use land titles and defined boundary markers. By going through those boundaries, the person is a threat. But they still deserve a warning shot just in case they were a dumbass.

Tl;dr. Yes, its ethical

It depends. Usually a case that can be defined as "defending your property with force" actually involves someone breaking into your house when you're at home.

Which means that you're defending yourself anyway.

...

Depends on whether or not you'll throw him out of a plane first.

>society makes you spend majority of your life working to obtain property
>not allowed to use lethal force to protect said property

He said he was gonna kill me, i feared for my life etc etc, get a family member to punch you in the face.

Not that hard desu.

That's not very convincing if you shot him in the back as he ran away.

How is it defence if someone isn't a threat?

Clearly OP is referring to cases not like that.

They're threatening your property.

by running away? as said?

If they're running away with your property yes.

>Is it ethical to shoot someone
yes

yeah if someone if on your property eating the apples off your tree you have the moral right to blast them (assuming that they would know it is your property.

>been saving up to buy a used vintage car
>carrying large amount of cash
>get mugged
>the right thing to do is let the thief escape with the fruit of my years of labor

T. Cuck, shoot that nigga, he stealing your property.

Hey Max, does your body count as your property?

yes

How are you going to determine if someone isn't an immediate threat?
Doesn't it stop being a spook when you're capable of defending it physically?

No. But it is ethical to toss your standard issue pilum at them.

its just always shocked me that Americans can just murder people. Like, someone goes into your house and steals something, and you people don't seem to mind MURDERING ANOTHER PERSON just to protect your object. Its just incredibly shocking, I think about this constantly, your obsession with guns, all that gun violence, the casual attitude towards murdering people. countries that have common sense gun laws don't have these issues, why won't americans just get the connection. imagine that. just murdering something. because they stepped within your property. this is something americans can do and just treat it like its righteous. wow.

No one take the bait

>your property

t. Sven "take everything and fuck my wife, I'll be in my cuckshed" Jorgensen

regarding the point is that everything is MY property I just have yet to claim it. therefore to say your property is very anti Stirner and spooked.

If someone breaks into your house, there's no way of knowing what their intentions are, and home invasions have a very high incidence of violence perpetrated by the criminal. If they're willing to commit a crime and break into your house, then they may very well be willing to commit further crimes and harm you or your family, making it fully justified to defend yourself preemptively.

What if they have already bagged your goods and fleeing? Is it then okay to shoot them in the back to get your goods back?

Yes, if they are being a sperg the only solution is to put them down

>wow don't shoot he's running away!
>after successfully burglarizing your house, he goes on to burglarize several more houses in your neighborhood, culminating with the rape and murders of a mother and her daughter
The deaths of innocent people sure is worth this moral highground for respecting the rights of violent criminals!

>I let some four eyed nerd dictates my interpretations of property
Fucking neck yourself

ah yes time for the bimonthly 2nd amendment rights shitstorm.

Animals don't have morality or rationale. Why would you even bring them up?

Is it still spooked if the "property owner" puts a built in your head when you try and claim it?

Bullet*

I'm 100% fine with it. If I were on the jury I'd happily side with you. The second anyone breaks into your home, it's reasonable to kill them.

No, in a word.

Life > material items

>if they are not an immediate threat to you or others?
I'm not comfortable just sitting and waiting for someone to make a move on me before I decide whether he's a threat.

Yes well I traded my life(via wages aka working) for items so in effect by stealing you are murdering my past time. Yes, any would be burglar (breaking and enetering merely being on the property is iffy) should be killed at the owners decision

>like why even have stuff you care about lmao

>buy foreclosed on property from under poor people
>enter my new home in the dead of night
>start shooting
Yes.

Anymore clips of civvies in fire fights? Shits cash

If stopped while or before comitting said crime the object most effective with least harm should be used. If this is a gun, you should do a warning shot before.

If they're on your property and you don't want them to be then they're violating the NAP and you are ethically allowed to if not obliged to use as much force as necessary to remove them.

Taking life cannot be justified in any circumstance.

It may be excused if options are limited but never, ever justified.

It is always wrong.

No but Americunts will always look for an excuse to kill someone legally and look like a hero in the process.

>Taking life cannot be justified in any circumstance.
prove it fag

Animals kill babies cause they don't have the same genetics.
If we have to base our morality in animals,I'd go with Bermuda. These guys were based, didn't hurt anybody, got along and het tons of sex.

Capitalism hurts doesn't it? Either you have to sacrifice what little morals you have left or accept the fact that you live in an unfair society where only the richest benefit.
Either way you lose.

That's right, next time i see a boy stealing apples from my orchard, i'll make sure to start throwing javelins until he looks like a hystrix because I don't know what his intentions are, he MIGHT just be carring a nuke in his anus, better make sure.
Ever heard of the presumption of innocence? We don't trust courts with saying someone is guilty "just in case", why the fuck would we trust some drunk redneck with a shotgun?

If you care about your tv to the point where you don't mind killing over it, that is a problem.

>i see a boy stealing apples from my orchard
>presumption of innocence
You literally JUST stated in your example that you saw him engaging in criminal activity.

>violent criminals
I don't think you know what that means.

Read the entire post dumbass.
His intentions are stealing apples. But he MIGHT want to kill me in the process, who knows? Better make sure!
Unless you're actually saying you'd kill a child over a bag of apples.

Because Americans are materialistic beyond help.
They actually believe their TV to be worth more than human life, which is even weirder if you take in to account how religious they are.

He's a criminal either way.

Pic related, how did America fuck up so badly?

Wait, so you ARE saying you'd kill a child over a bag of apples?

I'd kill a child just for the hell of it but that's beside the point.

>when thirld worlders are more more moral than you.

>haha funny edgy reply
Quit dodging the bloody question.

Opium of the masses

what do they mean by rich? like economically rich or mentally rich? does god take only poor people because they are easily manipulated?

i would only protect my computer [spoiler]especially my main hard drive[/spoiler] because it contains sensitive information and some files that are pretty important for me.

Nah not a tv but an antique passed down from three generations, some old family stuff, some shit i've kept since my mother passed away, some gifts from my parents half-way across the country, yeah i'd shoot jamal or tyrone in the ass for that stuff. why should i just let things i hold dear be taken? to appease some random politician in the capitol? to fit in with your "logic"? thieves in the US at this point in time aren't thieving out of desperation, not where i live and in very few places. the local church has canned goods available for free with no questions asked, there's food banks, and homeless shelters less than 20 minutes away, there's no excuse for stealing other than wanting a quick buck or a pretty picture frame.

although the way this discussion has turned is pretty retarded, clearly by europeans who neither understand the laws here nor the circumstances. if you point a gun at some shitty thief going after a tv, they'll drop and run 90% of the time and there's no reason to shoot, but some might pull a gun or knife in which case i see no reason why you cant shoot him/her. it's clear from your first post you're a retard since you can only shoot someone in self-defense

Context, context, context.
Rich guy (as in money) walks up to Jesus, ask him what can he do to be a better person.
Jsus tells him to not kill etcetera, he nods and says he's already doing that.
Jesus tells him to help out the poor, sell shit he doesn't need and donate to charity.
Guy walks away all sad, then jesus turns to his desciples and says pic related.
It's not like if you're born rich uou might as well kys, it's just that sharing is carring and if you're hogging all the food for yourself while others are starving you're practically a murderer.

Ever heard of dropbox?

So breaking into a house because you want a preety picture frame isn't justifiable, but killing someone because you want a preety picture frame is?

>why should i just let things i hold dear be taken?
Made me think. Idk, morality? Dignity? Empathy?

>unironic racism
>blaming poor people for being poor
>complaining about Europeans being uneducated
How's your wife/cousin?

It's like i'm reading some pre-shooting manifesto.

I get dark humour but it gets really forced on this website.

>ethically allowed to if not obliged
So if a kid is stealing my cherries I HAVE to run them over with my lawn mower and bathe in his blood as his screams fill the fields, otherwise I'm a sinner?
Americans are crazy.

You have to or you show a lack of respect for the NAP, which is the foundation upon which a truly ideal society would have to be built, and by showing that you can not respect the NAP you prove yourself no better than a dirty rapist.

let's make it happen
>unironic racism
Majority of the criminals around here are non-white, but go ahead and live in your bubble.
>blaming poor people for being poor
They have plenty of places for food and shelter. Thievery is inexcusable.
>oh but muh disney movies
>muh poor orphan driven to crime
>complaining about Europeans being uneducate
You are.
>morality
Subjective, dumbass
>Dignity
I've got enough to stand by my beliefs
>Empathy
For what?
>ownership doesn't exist
take it up with the law if you've got a problem with me having things.

Hell yes I would. That bag of apples is worth far more then some stupid whore's obnoxious crotch dropping.

Do you have an altar in your house or what?

>being this delusional

Yes, with a picture of Rothbard. I pray to it thrice a day before every meal.

>be not capitalist
>my vintage cars are only valuable because it's amazing a lada survived a year on four wheels

>Thievery is inexcusable
America fuck yeah

t. thief
I thought europe was so great with that welfare system what happened?

well are they a threat to your property or not? The important thing here is
>property

I only steal from big conglomerates, mate. But don't pull out your gun! I'm heading right now to the deathcamps for thievery.

>breaking god's commandments
good, rot in hell, fucker

Who do you think is punished when someone steals from Walmart?

no one because i can steal because the corporations are evil!

Not me, that's for sure.

Yes

yes

No, Stirner's definition of property is what a man or woman can defend.

>property
ancaps pls leave

I sorta agree with you

There was something on /pol/ a while back where some guy shot an intruder in his house. Turns out the intruder was drunk, and mistook his neighbours house for his own. The drunk guy broke into the house, was having a shower, and the home owner even had a conversation with him. The home owner (being a sociopathic fuck) went and got a gun and shot the drunk guy and tried to claim he had a right to because he was on his property.

The entire thread was Americans defending the home owner with > muh rights, when everyone else was trying to get the point across that shooting an intruder is an incredibly over the top way of dealing with it.

>accidentally walk on neighbor's lawn
>get shot in the face

Only is America friends.

I don't understand how you can support current system of private property, capitalism, etc without supporting use of force including lethal force to defend property.

Yes, assuming you confirmed invaders bad intentions, of course.

why would you shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?

not sure a big guy would do that and I have been told I'm a big guy