Christian friends, care to explain me one thing: why is suicide sinful?
Let's say a person is guaranteed to have a life of suffering, its mathematically impossible for this person to ever feel happiness or pleasure or do the works of God. Let's suppose because this person is physically psychologically and emotionally crippled. Besides, this person is like a boulder to society, the person is always fucking up everything, causing others trouble, being a source of pain to others and so on. So in this case, it's quite obvious that suicide is the correct decision. If the person keeps on living, the person will keep suffering and others will suffer. If the person suicides, no more suffering and others will be happy this person died and no more dealing with her. Note that in this example, suicide is actually quite altruistic - the person sacrifices her own life for the sake of others' lives-. So, care to explain what makes suicide something so bad? Wouldn't the Christian (or Islamic or whatever) forgive a suicide in circumstances like this? If no why and in what cases would God forgive a suicide?
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My mom, a Christian, says that suicide is wrong because it is not God's will. "Who are we," she would say, "to tell when it is time for one of us to go?"
Also, with Chritianity, or any religion, the idea of a "guaranteed" life of suffering is unheard of. With God, one will feel hope and optimism. No thinking of a suicide while worshipping and being unconditionally loved and comfy with a God.
I really don't think anyone who believes in God thinks that God would ever excuse a suicide. Even as a "burden," people love you.
Or you can fast and pray to God that he will be healed and he can go on to live a happy long life.
this is a tricky question because, in the end, suicide is basically taking your book of life and ripping it to pieces. it isnt biblical at all. i do not believe any one is past being helped and in truth, suicide is against human nature. man was designed to live, to fight for survival, to kill ones self is defying the life-force inside you. there are moments of sacrifice, yes, but suicide does not grant anyone else life, it merely destroys. further more, no one is beyond miracles and to say it wont get better is to put God in a box.
Trust me, i've been there. it does get better. Maybe not great, but better.
Suicide is a rejection of God's gift of life. It's a sin because you are taking a life from yourself. It's on the same tier as murder.
If the person truly believes that they are a burden to everyone around them and that the world is better off without them, that person should see a psychiatrist.
The idea of "sin" in general is incoherent because people can be forced to sin. Either nobody is guilty of anything, or God deliberately sets them up to fall.
Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible.
This thread seems to be a great example of your point seeing how wildly varied and inconsistent these replies have been.
Theism is a tool created and used by those in power to mould those who aren't in power into loyal, tax-paying, breeding, brainwashing, useful subjects. If suicide is permitted then the rulers have less people to conscript into their wars of conquest and less people to till their land for a pittance and less people to tax and less people to have breed and raise more loyal subjects for them.
It goes against natural law. The life you were given isn't yours to take. Suicide is never the correct solution under any circumstance, it's an intrinsically evil act (though there can be mitigating circumstances like mental problems, fear, whatever). Suicide is not self-sacrifice.
Except for all of the cases where that isn't true. You should return to reddit.
>It goes against natural law. The penis you were given isn't yours to fap with or to put in butts. Sex for any reason but procreation in the missionary position in a monogamous marriage is never the correct solution under any circumstance, it's an intrinsically evil act (though there can be mitigating circumstances like mental problems, fear, whatever). Fapping or hitting boipucci are basically murder.
Name one religion that isn't obvious bullshit used by people in power and/or permits suicide.
First, do not believe their religion.
Second, user, are you considering suicide?
Just be a whore, it's fun and never consistent :D
There is nothing in the Bible that explicitly condemns suicide.
The church had to begin asking followers not to martyr themselves because Christianity is essentially all about muh afterlife.
>Let's say a person is guaranteed to have a life of suffering,
What an absolutely terrible thread and post.
Because if it weren't a sin, all the people that devoutly believed it was a free pass to heaven would have killed themselves.
God is a moral idealist.
Moral actions are absolutes.
Killing is always a sin.
Even though we may make value judgements that seems to make suicide seem okay, God still upholds his stringent idealism.
>Name one religion that isn't obvious bullshit used by people in power
Sure. I'd say "All of them", but you'd probably find some cult dedicated to some African warlord like Butt Naked (he was insane, though, so it isn't really a tool of rulership on his part) or some shit, so I'll settle for "Most of them".
>and/or permits suicide.
Why would it permit suicide.
>no religions were created or used for social control other than that one cult by butt naked
so this is the power of reddit
>reddit
You know what confuses me? Everyone seems to get sent to reddit. Socialists, libertarians and nationalists all get sent there. Christians and atheists both get sent there. Make up your bloody minds.
Also, you haven't really shown any substance. If christianity was there just to serve its founder, why did Jesus martyr himself? Why did Siddartha make sure he himself wasn't worshipped? Why are most religions extremely ascetic if their founders just wanted pleasure? It would make more sense for them to ignore the question.
At their core, religions just ascribe divinity to things their peoples already have strong feelings for. When one worships Christ, he worships the feelings of love, heroism and selflessness. When one is buddhist, he worships serenity and indifference. When one bows to the Sun-God, he worships the profound beauty of a sunny day and the great might of the Sun as demonstrated by its effect on his own life. As they are based on such emotions, rooted in the collective experience of their peoples, more specifically on their value-judgements and beauty-judgements, religions are possibly the greatest achievement of aesthetics (I will never understand Nietzsche's animosity towards christianity, given that his whole philosophy is based on aesthethics). And christianity, so deeply rooted in the human experience, is the greatest of religions.
christianity is worthless shit, literally an apocalyptic death cult founded by a failed prophet
>just to serve its founder
I said 'those in power,' not 'its founders.' It is continually recreated and reused by power. To go with christianity, it was recreated by Constantine (and many others) and used for power, for example.
So when did the church do this?
>christianity is worthless shit, literally an apocalyptic death cult founded by a failed prophet
Yes, in the same way a human is literally a skeleton surrounded by meat and the Sunflowers are literally just pigment spread on a piece of cloth. Your powers of trivializing things are truly enlightening.
>I said 'those in power,' not 'its founders.' It is continually recreated and reused by power. To go with christianity, it was recreated by Constantine (and many others) and used for power, for example.
Is fire evil because it can be used sinfully? Following your line of thought, religion is not shown to be bad in any way. Less than fire, even, as such usage ofte requires the doctrines to be warped. Also, while I do not call into question that such cases occurred, those same 'ruling classes' that you accuse of using religion have just as often been motivated by it, out of honest belief.
Also,
>I said 'those in power,' not 'its founders.'
Refer to
>created and used by those in power to mould those who aren't in power into loyal, tax-paying, breeding, brainwashing, useful subjects.
>Suicide is a rejection of God's gift of life. It's a sin because you are taking a life from yourself.
Why is it a gift, exactly? If what truly matters is the afterlife, which lasts for eternity, why does this life matter a for any reason other than getting into that good afterlife? After all, hands are a gift too. Yet Jesus advised to cut off your hand if it would cause you to sin. Of course, that's metaphorical, but the underlying meaning is that worldly losses don't matter in the context of eternity. So why is the loss of life any different?
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"Who are we to tell when it is time for one of us to go"
Does this mean that every soldier who has fought in a war goes to hell too ?
Or does the magical book say "if you fight for us tho you go to heaven deadass"?
I would make the argument that while a sin it wouldn't be irreversible. Because if every sin is equal and say you commit a sin without time to repent it's not like "lol no time hell for you". Perhaps that's a false equivalency but I want to hear what you guys think.
A lot of Jesus's best known parables basically end with "lol no time hell for you". He warns constantly that you never know when your time to be tested will come.
>tested
You mean tortured for fun?
>god gives free will to choose what you do
>can't do that, its against god's will
WTF I hate free will now
I'm not sure if divine beings necessarily have a concept of fun, but "tested" refers to the event by which you find out whether or not you're going to be tortured, not the torturing itself. I should probably have used the word "judged" since that's a bit clearer.
It's murder; murder is a sin; all sins were forgiven at the cross except for Unbelief.
So while suicide is a sin, the real problem is Unbelief.
Choices have consequences. Ideas have victims. Forgiveness has a cost.
I'm Christian but suicidal. What gives dog?
Any real initiate of Life who sincerely wants to die, just dies. If you have to destroy your body then you're just being dramatic.
Only god has the decision of when you Die,not you or any other man
>with Chritianity, or any religion, the idea of a "guaranteed" life of suffering is unheard of
isnt this literally the first statement buddhism makes on the human condition?
>what is free will
Calvinists get out REEEEEEEEEEEE
This is the best argument for suicide.
Go ahead and an hero everyone.
>Theism is a tool created and used by those in power to mould those who aren't in power into loyal, tax-paying, breeding, brainwashing, useful subjects.
Actually it isn't. That's a stupid cynical explanation of religion.
Here is the correct cynical explanation of religion: theism represents what parents want their children to become. Parents don't want their children to kill themselves.