Explain this

Explain this.

I can't read it because it's in Hungarian but i'm thinking it's a couple of ideas how to divide the countries on the paper.

Apart from Transylvania and some parts of Delvidek, there were virtually no Hungarians outside of post-1920 Hungary,

atleast post a version which is readable for foreigners you absolute ostoba paraszt

It mocking/criticising the trianon treaty and the partitioning of Hungary by saying the treaty is like giving away large parts of the countries shown, it's basically saying you wouldn't seperate most of France from Paris or most of Italy from Rome so why do it to Hungary

This. OP is asking why it happened to Hungary I think

>unironically posting hungarian propaganda and asking for explanations

It's a false analogy.
Most of the lands lost by Hungary had significant non-Hungarian populations, while many of the hypothetical loses on these are absurd and have no such demographic justification.

For example, Bavaria wasn't populated by Frenchman with Germans only being a majority in some small parts of it.

What images like these never show is that the initial claims against Hungary by the neighbors were much harsher and Trianon toned them down significantly. So Trianon was far from a "tragedy" but a very fortunate event for Hungary.
Had these countries been left to do what they want Hungary would have been much smaller.

Isn't the picture obvious enough?

Jesus you guys are worse than Americans who put labels all over their political cartoons so they can understand them.

nobody took those seriously, it was only slavshit who daydream about their we wuzian territories

>nobody took those seriously
But they could have.
The point was that they were pushing for more and got rejected. If the West wanted to screw Hungary they would have given them everything.

if my grandma had a dick shed be my grandpa

Hungarians barely escaped genocide in 1919. They should be thankful with the land they have

The horsefuckers should've been driven back to the steppes. Fuckers don't even speak an indo-european langauge, whenever I hear a hun speak I physically cringe.

Hungarian sounds cute desu

t. arpad sgzsszdzdz mészáros

In the Trianon issue theres two hopelessly polarized PoV that history failed to reconcile, and indeed completey ignored one.

You have small Entente countries that won the war and expanded at great expense of Austria and Hungary, taking away not only lands habited by their own ethnicities but miles and miles of of pure Hungarian and German land, violating all pretenses of ethnic self-determination and to form a supposed just post-war system.

On the other side, theres the impossible Hungarian delusion which in the shock of treaty dugged its head under sand, and to day keeps crying about the supposed grandeur of Great Hungary that was.

As neither the winner the loser wanted sensible talk and agreements but kept sticking to their own version, status quo prevailed.

That map exemplifies the fallacious Hungarian stance all too well. Instead of explaining that the injustice comes from the new Hungarian state not incorporating a third of all Hungarian peoples of the old Empire, and that a good 2/3 of this diaspora is literally living along the new border, it simplified the matter into a question of territory. Now I won't say this is senseless, to a degree peopel and land are connected, but if you want to be a reasonable negotiator, you wouldn't use this.

These Trianon maps are always so retarded. I mean how do they not see the hypocrisy of considering Croatia part of Hungary? It was a crown union just like Austria and Hungary. Why isn't Trianon seen as just an appendix to the treaty of St Germain?

Because its not an appendix, Hungary and Austria were fully separate and sovereign states after 1918 and the Allies considered them so too.

>I mean how do they not see the hypocrisy of considering Croatia part of Hungary?
Its more of a habit, no actual thought expended.

>pretenses of ethnic self-determination
Pretenses is the right word. I don't understand why they even bothered pretending they cared, when it's basically ignored in every single treaty written in the Paris peace conference.

The amusing part is that the German one to a degree actually happened.

>Hungary and Austria were fully separate and sovereign states after 1918
The same goes for Croatia then. The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was created on 1/12/18, years before Trianon.

>no actual thought expended
Kinda my point yeah. Fucking hungarians can't keep an argument straight to save their lives.

What part of Nem, Nem Soha do you not understand?

They did care, as long as it preferred their own side.

When it could no longer be applied, strategic and economic rationale was brought up. Which is why Czechosvloakia managed to stretch down to the Danube for example, they said they need the waterway, the danubian valley plains for food, and to have a natural border.

That brings up an important point. While the Germanic situation got 'solved" after WW2 through the brutal deportations that erased the vast majority of volksdeutche populations outside current Germanosphere, Hungarians never got moved on such scale.

There was one attempt between Czechoslovakia and Hungary, but it got stopped after pressure from other countries, also it was a population exchange, and frankly there were nowhere near enough Slovaks in Hungary to balance the number of Hungarian arrivals from the CSSR.

enough of this kurvati shitstains

YOU ARE A NONE NATION
YOU HAD NO KINGDOM
YOU HAD AUTONOMY AND THATS IT

everybody in your shit little nation strived to be hungarian, your national heroes are hungarian for fucks sake, they lived fought and died for hungary, not "croatia"
jesus crist this balkan gypsy mentality

The same way Scotland is part of the UK i suppose.

England+Scotland = UK
Hungary+Croatia = Lands of the crown of Saint Stephen

Translations for the countries receiving partitions for those interested

>Hungary is being partitioned to Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria and Serbia

>France is being partitioned between England, Italy, Spain and Germany

>Italy is being partitioned between Yugoslavia, France, Greece and Tyrol and Bavaria

>UK is being partitioned between Norway, Germany, France

>America is being partitioned between U.K., Spain, Mexico and Japan

>Germany is being partitioned between Poland, Denmark, France and Czechoslovakia

Austria + Hungary = Habsburg crown lands
Same argument. I don't see the hungarians bemoaning the loss of their rightful austrian sovereign

>b-but muh A-H dissolution
Pretty much all Trianon land had either seceded or was under foreign occupation already. There's just no way you can complain about Trianon without accepting Wien as your capital.

>There's just no way you can complain about Trianon without accepting Wien as your capital.
This is one of the most retarded sentences ITT.

How so?

your argument would be right if AH had a trialistic system with Croatia being third equal, but that was not the case.

Croatia was clearly subordinated under the Hungarian crown (Crown of Saint Stephen), while the Hungarian crown wasn't under the Imperial crown, but was equal to it (that was the main point of the Ausglech).

And crownlands terminology only apply to the lands represented in the imperial council.

Seems totally irrelevant to me. Vienna was still the official capital of AH, and they were still just one country. If they accept one dissolution they must also accept the other, since they happened literally under the same conditions and in fact less than a month apart.

Not the guy you're arguing with, but you're right in the case of Croatia, it was always a separate entity, but Hungarians whining about the other lands that were taken from them is justified(in my opinion)

The perfect Hungary was in ww2

>The perfect Hungary was in ww2
That was still like just half the size pre Trianon.
I mean I guess I can see the ethnic argument if the hungarians complained about only those lands, but they don't. It totally defeats their argument.

>The perfect Hungary was in ww2

What exactly is the problem?

Daaamn, Janosz, control your butthurt. Your autism caused nearly all major issues in the Empire and you know it. If anyone has the 'Balkan Gypsy mentality', it's you.

Sorry but no, you can't just stress an important legal circumstane to back out into your own simplified intepretation.

The dissolution of Austria-Hungary into its two constituent lands had no direct implication on what must happen to Austria and Hungary, because the unity of these countries wasn't dependent on the Austro-Hungarian Compromise but was much more ancient.

That it happened is a matter of historical circumstances, that is the lost war, which triggered all dissolutions. But the cause-effect relatiomship here is precise and must be maintained clear.

If for example, there was no war but one of the compromise re-negotiationsfailed, and the constitutional crisis would lead to Austria and Hungary separating ways, would that cause them to dissolve further? Its probability, but by no means a certainity.

Also, why Austria did indeed pretty much dissoluted into what was but only confirmed by Saint-Germaine, that can't quit be said of Hungary. While the Slovene-Croat state left it, the remainder of the crown was still very much in one piece. The Belgrade ceasefire agreement put the southern quarter of the country under Entente occupation, and Czechs started to pour in from Northwest, but legally the country was one, the size of territories controlled still much more than post-Trianon Hungary, things like the Romanian's proclamation of secession had no actual political consequence.

I can play the same game, except in my example these borders are considered absolutely fine. I assume you aren't hyopcrite, no?

Its true that perfect borders are impossible especially with such a convulted historic-ethnic situations, but that doesn't means you can't at least try to approach optimal solutions.

In Hungary's WW2 borders, I do think Ruthenia should be asked here it wants to belong. Transylvania is prettybad case, because if you want to incorporate the Szekelys you will get equal amounts of Romanians into your country.

I think a post-WW2 population exchange (assuming the new borders stay) to a degree could have remedied this situation (as there were still hundreds of thousands Hungarians left on the south), although obviously neither party would have been willing to do it.

>hungarians respect the minorities in their kingdom
>the minorities breed like rabbits and go full wewuz
The only thing hungary did wrong was not going full genocide and assimilation like everyone else, same thing happening to the turks with kurds now.

>hungarians respect the minorities in their kingdom
Top fucking kek. You are exactly like the joos who always ask why they have been expulsed from every country in Europe over the years.

The eastern cut of Germany is almost correct -_-

>Hungary+Croatia = Lands of the crown of Saint Stephen
Then Hungary + Transylvania = Neverland

Lmao, go read their constitution, the beginning is pathetic. It's basically them saying that they wuz always independent.
I did a project at uni about the constitutions of former Yugoslav countries. It's by far the cringiest intro. Bosnian intro is boring and generic. Serbian intro is basically "Kosovo is ours and any government official that says otherwise will get up to 15 years in jail"

>hungarians respect the minorities in their kingdom
I sincerely hope that you're joking. Every other nationality in the Empire hated their guts for a reason, you know.

>Lmao, go read their constitution, the beginning is pathetic. It's basically them saying that they wuz always independent.
Are you illiterate? The beginning of the Croatian constitution affirms the historical-legal precedents for the State's existence, as shown on a number of historical examples. It never says "we were always independent", but "Croatia has had a very long history as a legal term". As far as constitutions go, each of them starts with a segment showing the legitimacy of the State. The American constitution, for example, legitimizes its State on the grounds of the will of the people. The Croatian constitution, on the other hand, legitimizes its existence through its history - its long historical existence as a legal concept, a state, independant or not. And I am not sure where you read anything like "we wuz".

You are looking through modern day glasses here. Hungarian treatment of minorities was pretty standard for the era.