Why is this place so bad nowadays /his? they beat the italians

This.

I went to Ethiopia recently. It's probably one of the better countries in the whole of Africa: friendly as fuck, Christian, beer, mostly green and lush. Reminds me of the English countryside.

100 million population

Muh clay, and also spite.

>The majority ethnic group Oromo are always ignored and they want out or atleast better representative power but the Habesha refuse

kek because theyre a bunch of separatist barbarians who started invading and forcibly migrating to our lands in the 16th century. They have no interest in assimilating, they have no claim to the Aksumite Empire of old, and they have no loyalty. Even during the Italian invasion, they took that as an opportunity to attack us rather than unite against the enemy. We welcomed them with open arms and many of them have been well represented and accultured; hell most of us amharas have oromo blood. But the majority of them feel entitled to a land that they are newcomers to. We should honestly kick out all oromos who refuse to assimilate and build a wall desu

>regional superpower

>strongest regional economy after egipt

>nato ally

>why is this place so bad today

because material reality faggot

you people seriously believe history is a rts game?

It's always been bad. They beat the retarded Italians with what was essentially a big feudal army with some guns. It was a completely rural, feudal backwater which still practiced slavery in the 1930s. They had only recently been unified after centuries of chaos, political disintegration and mass migration since the 16th century. Their capital, founded at the end of the 19th century, was the first city to have existed in the Christian highlands since the collapse of Aksum in the 7th century. Most of the economy was based on barter. Its population consisted of peasants, clergy and a warrior aristocracy; people who engaged in manufacturing or worked for a wage were considered untouchable or no a better than a slave. There was no culture of discipline, loyalty or submission to one's superiors (personal freedom was considered too important, and bandits and rebels were idealised), which made the building of a centralized state and military extremely difficult. The nobility and clergy were largely conservative, retrograde and opposed to foreign influence, slowing and sometimes halting government attempts at modernization. In other words, it had absolutely none of the social, economic or political traits that allowed places like Japan or Turkey to successfully or semi-successfully modernize.

People always treat Ethiopia as if it were the 'most civilized' part of sub-Saharan Africa which is supposedly why it resisted colonisation, but really in most ways they were far behind places like West Africa. Maybe back in Aksumite times they were the most civilized (but still not the most industrious or technologically advanced), but that had ended long ago. Their resistance had more to do with a mix of effective leadership, Italian stupidity and the disinterest or aid provided by other European powers, rather than superior civilization.

>they beat the italians

Whoop dee doo

apparently everibody beat the italians

>Climate change

The Oromo/Habesha conflict seems so stupid to me. It has basically no historic precedent, as you say Ethiopians were clannish and 'ethnic identity' (which barely even existed) meant very little compared to religion, family or region. Language was sometimes important, like an Amharic speaking aristocrat was better than an Oromo speaking one, but for the vast majority it hardly mattered. Now you have 'Amharas' and 'Oromos' acting like they're both homogeneous nations who've been genociding each other for centuries, as if the actions of the Shoan aristocracy were somehow the actions of 'the Amhara people' (99% peasants with no ethno-linguistic identity), or as if the 16th century Galla invaders were the same people who speak Oromo today. And apparently the Tigrayans are the Illuminati or something. As usual, ethno-nationalism is cancer.

Except t the Germans

>Bill nye being a cuck means I'm right just stop caring about the world around u man it's le jewish conspiracy anywaiiiiiii

It only got bad during the 18th and 19th centuries. None of it was their fault though. The stuff that you described are the marks of a society that didn't leave the medieval period, much like certain parts of the Middle East and Africa. All that was a result of Muslim/Oromo migration which fucked up hopes of centralization. They had to be on constant guard from invasion and by being cut off from Christian Europe they couldn't modernize appropriately. It was either becoming fully Muslim like West Africa or live in a bottlenecked society. Also, there were emperors like Tewedros tried to modernize the place but couldn't due to the above.

Also, no one seriously says that Ethiopia was more advance than Italy at the time but their victory laid more on effective leadership than anything else and I would still consider Ethiopia the most civilized part since they had a pretty effective monarchy mixed with interesting architecture.

>as if the 16th century Galla invaders were the same people who speak Oromo today
but they are though.

"Climate change" is the earths natural course and includes many more variables than muh carbon tax and big government regulation.

>Climate change will render Ethiopia dead in 50 years by this pace.
Ethiopia is one of the most lush and beautiful places on earth, its clearly a shekel post.

kys

>All that was a result of Muslim/Oromo migration which fucked up hopes of centralization.
Exactly this. What we need is a strong majority of 1). Christianity 2). Tigraynas and Amharas.

We got demographically overrun by the barbarians and now its too late. No way we can be a cohesive nation-state now.

>"Climate change" is the earths natural course and includes many more variables than muh carbon tax and big government regulation.
dude take your lolbertarian propaganda elsewhere. this isnt the thread for your shit

my freedom is worth more than your CorrectTheRecord paycheck

>Maybe back in Aksumite times they were the most civilized
The Persian Prophet Mani (died 274 AD) regarded Axum as one of the four great powers of his time, alongside Persia, Rome, and China.[3][4]

You can't get caught up in this trap. The reality is both the local ancestors of Habesha and Oromo are connected to that of the Agaw, Sidamo, Afar and Somali. Genetically speak all these groups are aligned with one another. There is historical fact that Oromo as an ethnicity did come about "later" into the Central Highlands but they are an ethiopic peoples.

This also ignores the expansionist imperialist reality of Amharic into territories Oromo were in seasonally, it creates this idea that Amharic are somehow rightful owners when when we are not.

All Ethiopians have Cushitic ancestry, Agaw is the main substrate of our semitic languages. The Selassie was half Oromo from both sides of his family.

You sound like a larper.
Yes it's dumb but I don't blame Oromo for protesting being marginalized economically and politically either.

They're just assimilated Amhara-speakers, who were just assimilated Agaw speakers.

dude, there's always genocide

>The reality is both the local ancestors of Habesha and Oromo are connected to that of the Agaw, Sidamo, Afar and Somali. Genetically speak all these groups are aligned with one another. There is historical fact that Oromo as an ethnicity did come about "later" into the Central Highlands but they are an ethiopic peoples.
that means nothing. we are closely related to somalis; that doesnt mean that it would be ideal to be overrun by them. The fact remains that they came later and now feel entitled to land that they had no claim to prior. Furthermore, they dont possess the traits necessary for us to move towards modernity.

>This also ignores the expansionist imperialist reality of Amharic into territories Oromo were in seasonally, it creates this idea that Amharic are somehow rightful owners when when we are not.
We and tigraynas are the rightful rulers and our culture should be the dominant culture. Let me ask you, whose ancestors do you think comprised the Aksumite elite? Even during Aksumite times, proto-Habeshas ruled and kept the other groups at bay.

>All Ethiopians have Cushitic ancestry, Agaw is the main substrate of our semitic languages.
of course, so what?

>The Selassie was half Oromo from both sides of his family.
That just goes to show you that when Oromos have been willing to assimilate into our culture, we treat them like anyone else. I myself have oromo blood. Despite this, they still cling to separatist fantasies and sense of entitlement.

The cold war probably

>Unironically pretending climates aren't changing because you're too insecure to yield ground to liberals on any subject whatsoever

They had Light Sabers.

>giving him attention
>not simply letting his shit get buried

I'm not an ethno-nationalist. That's what's gotten us in all these messes and it won't fix anything. You are perpetuating the nation's stagnation

Thats the thing about the emperors new clothes once you admit hes naked the house of cards collapses

so whats your ideal future? give in to oromo demands? then what?

>I'm not an ethno-nationalist. That's what's gotten us in all these messes
how so?

A socio-economic reality that reflects the composition of Ethiopia with a breakdown of consolidated power in the hands of key Tigrinya and Amharic families.

...Have you not seen the effects of Amharic and Tigrinya elite and their classiest, imperialist and ethnocentric actions that have sold out the common people for personal gain?

Fucking commie.

You know the Aksumite Empire didn't span south of Tigray? The area now inhabited by Oromo speakers was conquered only by Habeshas in the 14th and 15th centuries, and was probably Muslim before it was Christian.

It's not communism. Local elite should have no right to remove serfs and peasants from their lands to lease or sell to other nations to grow crops for export.

Local communities have rights to resources they've utilized long before this oligarchy was formed.

How accepted is the Ethiopian church by other christians? What's their reputation among the other near eastern and Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox churches? They practically believe the arc of the covenant is located in Ethiopia and deemed the Book of Enoch to be canonical

>they beat the italians
Thats not a high bar you re setting

Everyone recognizes the Tewahedo Church, eccentricity aside it was always respected and sought by those in the West.

Of course American Protestant missionaries are gaining followings and are trying to delegitimize things

>muh based Ethiopians

osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=19198

>A socio-economic reality that reflects the composition of Ethiopia
incredibly vague and will never happen. those oromo left to their own devices cant into urban lifestyle.

>...Have you not seen the effects of Amharic and Tigrinya elite and their classiest, imperialist and ethnocentric actions that have sold out the common people for personal gain?
There is lots of corruption but ethnicity is not the problem. Most amharas hate the government too

>You know the Aksumite Empire didn't span south of Tigray? The area now inhabited by Oromo speakers was conquered only by Habeshas in the 14th and 15th centuries, and was probably Muslim before it was Christian.
Tough luck. We need it.

Except war will be inevitable if things don't change and your LARPing Habesha supremacy on Veeky Forums isnt going to do anything for those of us actually effected by the inevitable strife.

>Most amharas hate the government too

and tigraynas. eritreans are mostly tigrayna. the issue isnt ethnic, thats just oromo opportunism speaking

Do you think that map was made by a historian, based on written records or archaeology? It's pretty obviously just a book or website illustration.

maybe war is what it will take to put them in their place. we're talking about the same people who took Italian invasian as an opportunity to kill Habeshas. People like you have natural instinct to side with who you perceive as the underdog. let me tell you, the oromos would in power would be 10X worse than the current situation.

It's not that bad. They are leading in the African Union, most potential, and has a decent GDP. Really the only reason they struggle a lot is because of geography, but for what they got they're not doing too bad.

>In a more immediate sense, the Oromo migration resulted in a weakening of both Christian and Muslim power and drove a wedge between the two faiths along the eastern edge of the highlands. In the Christian kingdom, Oromo groups infiltrated large areas in the east and south, with large numbers settling in Shewa and adjacent parts of the central highlands. Others penetrated as far north as eastern Tigray. The effect of the Oromo migrations was to leave the Ethiopian state fragmented and much reduced in size, with an alien population in its midst. Thereafter, the Oromo played a major role in the internal dynamics of Ethiopia, both assimilating and being assimilated as they were slowly incorporated into the Christian kingdom. In the south, the Sidama fiercely resisted the Oromo, but, as in the central and northern highlands, they were compelled to yield at least some territory. In the east, the Oromo swept up to and even beyond Harer, dealing a devastating blow to what remained of Adal and contributing in a major way to its decline.
The oromo invasions set the stage for our current situation. if I could time travel, I would warn our forefathers; perhaps they would take pre-emptive measures

So you really are a larper then?

Also, do you think Americans should be wiped out so the natives can have their land back?

The ethno-nationalist take of East African nation states is what keeps us in the messes our families endure in
This excerpt is ignoring the expansionist movement of the "Amhara". it's ignoring that like Oromo, Amhara actively crippled and destroyed pre-existing polities and actively dismantled power from Gurage and other populations.

This also of course ignores the many components and populations that pre-existed in these lands that became Oromo just as Amhara encompass
You cannot chastise Oromo without chastising Habesha, this is why I role my eyes at you and other keyboard warriors ferenji or otherwise.

>I'm sharing this thread with actual blacks

Are there any good books that I could read to learn more about Ethiopia?

I don't get this question. Everytime people make these threads they ask how to basically research and I'm like "this is what Encyclopedias are for"

Read the sources and cited materials as a start and go from there.

>Also, do you think Americans should be wiped out so the natives can have their land back?
of course not. Civilized populations subjugate less civilized populations; thats just how it always goes. there is a difference between conquest and weaseling your way in.

>The ethno-nationalist take of East African nation states is what keeps us in the messes our families endure in
No, we are in our current state because political corruption, famine, fracturing thanks to oromo presence, and falling for the communism meme. The oromos would still be subjugated either way just as the Aksumites subjugated the beja and other uppity ethnic groups.

>This excerpt is ignoring the expansionist movement of the "Amhara". it's ignoring that like Oromo, Amhara actively crippled and destroyed pre-existing polities and actively dismantled power from Gurage and other populations.
We did it through conquest. Oromos just weaseled their way in and then proceeded to feel entitled to it all despite the fact that they cant sustain it themselves. We're trying to play catch-up to modernity; we cant afford to be polite like ferenj can now.

>you will never learn Ge'ez

I should have been more clear; is there a decent layman book that I can read while drinking coffee?

So Ethiopia should be Italian then, because Italians are clearly more civilized.

No, because the Italians failed to subjugate them. You missed his point entirely.

Just look it up on Amazon breh you can find anything on Amazon

The Italians did subjugate them, Ethiopia had to be liberated through foreign intervention.

I should have been even more clear; do you personally recommend a layman book about Ethiopian history that you find to be good and reputable?

That's an occupation, I generally say subjugation if the population has been brought to heel for a decent amount of time.
Of course what the Oromo did could still be viewed as conquering, but not in the traditional sense of the word.

This is a bit subjective.

Idk I'm not that Ethiopian dude

>So Ethiopia should be Italian then, because Italians are clearly more civilized.
If they had won, then yes.

How is what the Oromo did not conquering?

Anyway, that guy says the more 'civilized' should conquer and rule. The Italians were more civilized, they conquered, and their rule was ended by foreign intervention more than it was by native revolt (as much as they like to pretend otherwise). So by his logic, the Italians are the rightful rulers of Ethiopia.

Not him, but here are a few;

>Ancient
Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity (google it, you can find it online)

>Medieval
Church and State in Ethiopia: 1270-1527

>General/Modern
A History of Ethiopia by Harold Marcus (also online somewhere)

These are all a bit old though, there's probably better stuff. They're just the ones I have.

>thread about what happened to Ethiopia
>internal conflict
>some rare ethiopian larpers arguing over the dynamics of their nation-state: the thread

>i wonder what happened

Pretty sure he's saying that they're allowed to rule since right of conquest and all. By that logic the Italians should be ruled by the more civilized French.

I'm not sure he knows what he's saying.

>allowed
>should
I didn't use either of those words. What I said was

> Civilized populations subjugate less civilized populations; thats just how it always goes.

It happens, whether or not you or I believe it "should" or not. Concerning Italy, if they had won and proceeded to modernize the country , then I would accept it. (it was them who ended our slavery system after all). If the Oromos were capable of leading us to modernity, I would accept it.

>ended by foreign intervention
Italy got wrecked in WW2. they would have lost east africa with or without british support to ethiopia. and they still beat italy prior in 1890s. if receiving support is grounds for delegitimizing a victory, then plenty of victories in history wouldnt count.

If you look in the Veeky Forums archives you will clearly notice I have been around for awhile. I'm probably the only beta Israeli on this imageboard. Also /afri/ the /int/ thread also all know me and can vouch.

I'm not a larper but other than an Italian whose 1/4th Ethiopian who showed me a pic years ago and that half Mexican Ethiopian who was teaching English in Central Asia and posted pics we are quite rare.

>Landlocked

You can't make this shit up

It must be the worst of feelings when your greatest enemy in the east has the longest coastline in Africa.

Since this seems to be /ethiopia/ general, I'm highly interested in it's pre-Aksumite history. Particular the connections and relations with the Horn and South Arabia. We know some form of cultural exchange occurred but how much? Was Dmt completely Sabaean influenced?

djibouti is basically a dependent territory at this point, the vast majority of their economy is shipping to Ethiopia.not that this is a bad thing for either party honestly, Ethiopia is one of the fastest growing economies in the world which also feeds into Djibouti.

>Overall, crime is generally opportunistic and non-violent/non-confrontational

honestly thats not bad for Africa

The ancient churches and other buildings are really incredible, Ethiopian copts and orthodox are generally super nice.
Also the Muslims in Ethiopia are usually pretty nice as well, and they have one of the oldest mosques in the world there.

Arabia Felix was basically East African until the first expansion of semiticizing speakers from The Levant migrated South.

They were Cushitic fishers, hunters of manatee and introduced semi-domestication donkeys and camels into the region. The Socotrans, Mehri and other recognized indigenous communities all speak languages that retain Cushitic substratum.

Later Arabic speakers overtook South Arabian Languages.

Suffice to say East Africa is the bedrock of Arabia Felix, others came and built on that and the entire time there was cross cultural pollination Along the Red Sea.

I kind of get irrationally angry whenever someone mentions that Ehtiopia avoided colonization. No they didn't. They were under imperial yoke less than most regions in Africa, but literally every country in Africa was under foreign rule at some point in the 1800s or 1900s (Liberia, the other 'free' African country, used to be a U.S. colony).

1.) No colonialism meant no modern infrastructure or education systems

2.) Communism

3.) Famine

Cucked out of coastline.

Somalia can't even hold their own country together let alone part of another.

Yep. Even before that Ethiopia was kind of a joke that anyone could have turned into a protectorate if they had really bothered, just read this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expedition_to_Abyssinia

>They have no interest in assimilating, they have no claim to the Aksumite Empire of old,

Neither do Amhara. Amahra are basically the Han of The Horn where they managed to borge surrounding people into their cultural group.

>friendly as fuck, Christian, beer, mostly green and lush. Reminds me of the English countryside.

That's not really special though. Unless you mean the Orthodoxy.

>1.) No colonialism meant no modern infrastructure or education systems

Rest of Africa barring SA and Rhodesia didn't either.