Historically, what has been the strongest martial art?

if its not boxing ill eat my hat

Sambo is underrated

Pankration is the only Western martial art that can be compared with the Eastern tradition.

It's been obsolete ever since man learnt how to pick up a stone. All martial arts are upperclass memes that are historically irrelevant. Decades of training btfo'd within 10seconds by a bronze spear or sword.

Most martial arts thoughout history have been weapon arts,

Historically martial arts arise from a specific environment to deal with specific circumstances, so as society changes whats "effective" changes. There is no strongest martial art

EXTREMELY patrician

fpbp

It depends on your definition of strength.

Muay thai

Literally modern day MMA

MMA - rules > MMA

I am sure an eye strike is dishonorabur but it puts them out of action quicker than holding them in a leg hold with your crotch in their face for 5 minutes and ejaculating a little because of all the adrenaline and exertion and all the people watching.

SAMBO and other schools used by special forces are neat, but which one?
Which country do you think of when you think of dirty fighting and dirty tricks? Krav Maga.

Nyukyu

this

try poking someones eye out in a real fight dumbass, you're better off just punching them in the jaw

Ninjutsu

Boxing and wrestling are by far the most practically effective fighting systems in existence. The Eastern traditions are like 99% unusable performance art shit

This.

Probably a martial art with both striking and grappling elements for a full ranger of attacks. Boxing is good but doesn't utilize elbows and legs along with blow the belt strikes, wrestling is not a striking sport so probably lesser to that of Muay Thai but Muay Thai lacks grappling which could give wrestling the edge.
Historically I'd say Pankration because it is pretty much boxing and wrestling with only eye gouging and biting forbidden and used by the Spartans (Inb4 lol Spartans) who must have perfected it along with being in the Olympics.
Modern would obviously be MMA because it is just a culmination of all other martial arts and very similar to Pankration in terms of combat.
Krav Maga is also very useful in combat but I am unsure how auser would fair against a professional MMA fighter as Krav Maga focuses on simplicity rather than complex grappling and maneuver techniques. However Krav Maga would be much more useful against an armed opponent with a knife than MMA would.
Lets be honest though the true test of a patrician man is the winter pentathlon.

Pankration
ancient.eu/pankration/

>Krav Maga is also very useful in combat

Show me one video where they use krav maga in a real fight, not some rehearsed tacticool compliant show off. There are like thousand of cellphones filming at any given point, so there should be at least one video that proves how krav maga performs in the street.

But user, Cops use it, Special forces like SAS ans USMC use Krav Maga along with IDF. Krav Maga does work because its so simple m8, operators wouldn't use it otherwise. There just isn't much footage as it is not a competitive martial art and Operators seldom get into melee combat and when they do, there aren't any people filming them because it is usually in a building in the middle of bum fuck nowhere. Plus most ordinary people who do a martial art do it because it is competitive which krav maga isn't so civilians who do get into street fights that know martial arts tend to do boxing or MMA not krav maga.

I guess it depends on what you mean, but maybe Judo. Kano founded it to revive a dying tradition, and he did such a good job it worked. Plus, its regarded as effective by pretty much everyone and can be found everywhere. It's descendant arts, like Sambo and BJJ, are also regarded highly.

Stop buying the Krav Maga marketing hype. A martial art's effectiveness is dictated by its training methods, and Krav's are shit. Military hand to hand generally is, by the way, since armies treat it as a last resort option that's probably never going to be used. And outside of the IDF (by the way, the USMC doesn't use Krav, they use something that's basically BJJ), it's basically run like a franchise business with very little quality control. Even schools that are supposed to be good don't spar and pull the say the same "this is too deadly for me to show you" stuff like the worst Eastern arts do. And most people that do Krav aren't operators, they're people who listened to the marketing and thought it was a hardcore 2deadlyforU martial art.

>Cops use it, Special forces

That doesn't mean a crap. Authorities are trained primarily in weapons use, as well as tactical and intelligence operations. They don't go around in a ninja outfit breaking necks and shit, if they have to use a gun, they fucking fire first, and if there's some special stealth operation, they fucking fire a silent gun first and foremost. Hand to hand combat is for when they have fucked the operation so bad they have no choice. As cop or military, if you have to resort to hand to hand combat, you really fucked up something.

>he bought into the suppressed gun meme
It's still louder than a motorcycle m8 all they do is make it near impossible to locate the direction the sound is coming from

Probably Capoeira, martial fight created by Brazilian slaves to protect themselves against armed men.

It always amazes me how little the history board knows about the history of martial arts.

Most martial arts historically were not primarily empty handed. Most involved work with weapons

modern boxing and wrestling are not the same as Greek and Roman versions.

the "performance art" stuff people make fun of was at least at one time part of practical systems. The stuff you see in your strip mall kung fu place is not necessarily a good representation of what was done a hundred years ago.

Wrestling.

>is make it near impossible to locate the direction the sound is coming from
>Implying I wasn't aware of this fact.
>Implying hiding the direction from the shot isn't an important part of stealth operations.

This. Wrestling dominates everyother martial art.

Homosexual Love

>operators wouldn't use it otherwise.

So I realize that if you aren't actually involved in the "martial arts world", and don't do a lot of reading about it, then you probably won't know this.

There is a massive amount of bullshit that surrounds "operator" martial arts training due to the nature of how SOCOM has handled hand to hand combat in the past. It is not difficult at all to get your "martial art" or "fighting system" in front of SOCOM. SOCOM will allow you to put together an evaluation class and will send evaluators to check it out. This is probably what about 50% of people who claim to have trained "special forces" have done.

The rest will have someone from an SF Group, usually a support monkey not an actual SF qualified guy, SWAT cop, or other government employee show up to a class or seminar as a private citizen completely independent of their organization and will claim that they trained those organizations.

It's just so fucking gay tho

>It's just so fucking gay tho

It's so gay that wrestling is prominent in folk martial arts systems historically. It's also gay that it's assumed in many historical manuals for weapons that it's assumed the individual being trained has a background in their local folk wrestling system.

This is probably not the best place to ask this, but it's close.

What's the world's strongest weapon art?I've always had a fascination for dueling, but most modern day duelests are either fencers or practicd kendo. What's the true martial art weapon of choice if you want to have a true "1v1 me bro" style combat?

also the idea is to never fight anyone remotely close to your level of skill thus with some brains (counterintuitively) still making boxing the superior "Sport"

Where do you draw the line, or are we just going to start shouting AIRSTRIKES again?

I don't know about strongest, but if you want sword duels you might be interested in HEMA.

HEMA and Kenjutsu.

HEMA also teaches grappling, wrestling, and striking.

Bladed weapon? Iberian montante. Concealable weapon? Carry a handgun and practice BJJ with a few disarms thrown in to handle 21 foot rule situations.

Bartitsu

There is no strongest weapon art. All martial arts are product of an environment that formed them and are probably less effective outside that.

there are probably all sorts of obscure sword arts around the world but if your in the west your best bet is Hema or a koryu kenjutsu group.

No need to fight (I can't believe I said this in a martial art thread lol), pankration techniques derive from boxing and wrestling, in fact they were born and developed out of their combination

Whatever CQC techniques they teach to American or Russian spec ops. I know Krav Maga is taught to Israeli and some American. It was even developed in the last century to fight Nazis, who had guns.

You're a good goy

Kung fu. No doubt

>Whatever CQC techniques they teach to American or Russian spec ops. I know Krav Maga is taught to Israeli and some American. It was even developed in the last century to fight Nazis, who had guns.

Is this bait?

Grappling
Wrestling
judo
Bjj
Then striking
Boxing
Muay Thai

Those listed above have a history of working and working well, this is proven in modern mma especially the early days of ufc (please reference ufc 1-10).
The American Marines use what they call Marine Corp martial Arts here's a short video I suggest finding the whole thing.
youtu.be/VyllQuQuHZE

Flavor in a bit of your cultural heritage like sambo or luta livre if your heritage sucks silat or sanshu

For things to work you have to drill and spar at live speeds if you don't do that you are just larping. This is why those super deadly eye gouge and crotch kick heavy mall ninja systems never work.

>judo better than BJJ
You do realize that judo is just BJJ with more rules. Judo leaves out things like leg locks and shoulder locks for no reason. Judo is still very effective of course, but BJJ is more practical ON DA STREETZ.

If we're talking no weapons probably modern BJJ

Krav Maga is literally fake Jew shit.

Wrestling, and grappling in general, is great for MMA and shit like that but is terrible for IRL self defense. There's no reason to get that close to someone trying to do harm to you, and often times, takedowns are a good way for Tyrone's friends to get the opportunity to start curb stomping your head.

While I do agree with you the argument that sport jiu jitsu and guard pulling are somewhat nerfing bjj's effectiveness in the concrete arena can be made. And the quick/big throw interaction encouraged by the judo rule set might favor an encounter with multiple attackers.

This

bjj is judo with different rules and specializing in groundwork.

While theoretically bjj contains all the same randori waza of judo in practice they only practice a few of the throws with any regularity.

grappling, when it takes into effect the possibility of strikes or small weapons, is effective in almost any situation, which is why its found in blades weapons arts as well, both in the east and west.

Until you're fighting more than one person and get curbed stomped.
And I've never been in too many fights where it is a fair 1 on 1, maybe during grade school, but I wouldn't grapple random people on the street. Maybe I just live in a shitty part of the world. But no.

You get into a lot of fight with multiple people?

then you know that if your facing multiple people your already at a huge disadvantage. There a grappliers who can throw an unskilled man almost instantly. Far more likely to take someone out of the fight than even several strikes.

Even more so with weapons. striking someone with a knife is a pretty poor idea compared to gaining leverage and taking the guy down. (assuming running isnt an option) you'll probably still get cut and you will be fighting at a disadvantage but you can take the guy down. Striking would only open you up to getting your arms slashed.

If you're fighting multiple opponents I agree that striking is better because you want to be no where near the ground. However in a 1 vs 1 situation you're better off with grappling. Sure you're right that you don't want to get that close to your opponent, but you don't get to chose. A lot of street fights end up in a clinch or on the ground. Especially if your opponent notices that you know what you're doing their reaction would be to just bull rush you or go for a sloppy double leg take down.

Rindo-kan Karate

Kapu Kuialua

(You) wa shock

glima

>fencing isn't a martial art

Good post.

A good example of this, this is one style that I always thought looked terrible in their demos, yet history said that at the turn of the century they were the dominate style in competitive matches. It was hard to imagine that was possible if they moved in the same way a hundred years ago.

sure enough I got to see a video of them from about that time ago, the same basic two man forms,but they were moving much faster, with a tension between the practitioners that seems missing today.

>but is terrible for IRL self defense

Please stop repeating a meme. This is retarded.

>Until you're fighting more than one person and get curbed stomped.

Pro-tip: Striking isn't guaranteed to save you from multiple determined attackers either.

The one that doesn't shy away from gouging the other persons eyes, kicking them in the gonads and the like.

exactly. ancients were bumfuckers

>Special forces like SAS and USMC
>Special forces
>USMC

C O N T E X T
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N
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>The one that doesn't shy away from gouging the other persons eyes, kicking them in the gonads and the like.

t. RBSD guy who's never been in an actual fight

ok

I went to a pretty rough school and came in quite a few fights when I was younger. Luckily for me, I had more than a decade of judo experience and found it incredibly useful. Because fights tend to go to a point where grappling is more useful than striking quite quickly. You can also force your opponement into submission in a rather "soft" way.

In the end of the day, youre better off running away from fights because shitskins tend to bring their 20 cousins with them.

Yeah 1 on 1 anyone who's semi competent at BJJ will fuck up any random nigga.

Kyokushin Karate

>what is subsonic ammunition

Personally I think the search for a "strongest" martial art is stupid.

There are schools and arts that are better, at least within certain perimeters like a duel or a match in the ring. A generation later it could be a different art that is dominate as something better comes along or the older art gets watered down or not passed on correctly.