What generals or admirals have been cucked by their rulers throughout history like hannibal was?
Pic related
What generals or admirals have been cucked by their rulers throughout history like hannibal was?
Adrian Reyes
Hunter Thompson
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Stop bullying Yang
Sebastian Martin
.t I have no idea what the second punic war was like but I'm going to talk about it anyway because I'm retarded.
Julian Morgan
They never sent a single extra soldier to him when he needed them most.
Hannibal was at the gates of fucking Rome and Carthage was like nope, fuck him, we'll handle the Romans later somehow
Dominic Clark
>They never sent a single extra soldier to him when he needed them most.
They tried to send him almost double the initial invasion force.
>Hannibal was at the gates of fucking Rome and Carthage was like nope, fuck him, we'll handle the Romans later somehow
Source? Becuase guys like Polybious and Livy don't mention it. And if you stop and think about it for a second, you'd understand why. This is the ancient world. They don't have telephones. RRome controls the seas around the central Med, so any message to send to Carthage would have to go through the same route, back across the Alps, across southern France, tover spain, cross in the western Med where Rome isn't as strong, and then overland to Carthage. It Took Hannibal's army 4 months to make that trek. A lone messenger can probably move twice as fast, but we're still talking 2 months just for the Carthaginian senate to KNOW there was a big victory a la Cannae. Then, if they have an army right there to send out, they can get Hannibal his reinforcements, half a year later. If they don't, of course they'll have to wait however long it takes them to raise a brand new army, train it, arm it, etc, and them arch it along the same damn route.
Kill yourself, you dumbfuck. You're not only ignorant about the war, you're extremely stupid, since a little bit of logic would have figured this out even if you hadn't familiarized yourself with the actual history of the era.
Xavier Wright
> They tried to send him almost double the initial invasion force.
Yep, led by his brother Hasdrubal, who was intercepted and defeated by a Roman army, and then had his head thrown into Hannibal's camp.
Alexander Barnes
...
Hudson Collins
Rome didn't "control" the seas, retard. Ancient naval warfare was entirely different than what you're describing. Carthage could mount naval expeditions just fine and receive messengers just fine. There were risks, but Carthage wasn't blockaded. The reasons Hannibal didn't get reinforcements is because the magistrates in the capital, led by Hanno the Great, weren't exactly keen on helping the Barcas because they were corrupt and saw the Barcas increasing wealth and power a threat to their existence. In such they were very similiar to the Romans, however unlike the Romans they couldn't unite under one banner when their existence was threatened.
That wasn't from Carthage, but from his brother. Carthage didn't exactly control the Barcas
Robert Butler
>Rome didn't "control" the seas, retard
Yes, they did. That's why you had the invasion across the Alps instead of what was going on in the 1st Punic war, naval actions everywhere and fighting directly over Sicily.
>Carthage could mount naval expeditions just fine and receive messengers just fine.
Which is of course why they mounted a grand total of ZERO naval expeditions the entire war, and the attempt to send Hannibal reinforcements by sea when he was at Capua got crushed by the Roman fleet.
>The reasons Hannibal didn't get reinforcements is because the magistrates in the capital, led by Hanno the Great, weren't exactly keen on helping the Barcas because they were corrupt and saw the Barcas increasing wealth and power a threat to their existence.
[citation seriously needed]
Sebastian Thomas
The biggest cuck was Napoleon. His "wife" literally fucked small time Lt's while he was lost in Egypt, and then he went crawling back to her like the bitch he was.
Benjamin Turner
>implying Napoleon didn't cuck her back tenfold later on
Isaac Hall
Alcibiades, if Athens just let him do what he wanted they probably would've won against Sparta.
Hudson Turner
Except Napoleon was fucking other bitches at the same time, and then he also dropped her ass for a fertile woman, and then he also he straight up said he loved her but didn't respect her.
Chase Davis
Khalid ibn al-Walid
William Stewart
Belisarius
Justin Davis
She slept with enough notables to build support for Napoleon upon his return, she is the reason he became ruler.
William Ortiz
>Yes, they did.
They had the naval advantage and superiority, however that doesn't mean Carthage's fleet was blockaded in a port. They couldn't mount a large invasion of Italy because Rome had the superior navy and that wouldn't have gone unnoticed.
>Which is of course why they mounted a grand total of ZERO naval expeditions the entire war, and the attempt to send Hannibal reinforcements by sea when he was at Capua got crushed by the Roman fleet.
What? No such thing happened.
>[citation seriously needed]
Really? It's a well known fact. Go read on Hanno the Great, Council of the 30 nobles, the Hundred and Four, Hamilcar and the Barca family and you'll get a rough idea on why they didn't support him and abstained from helping him.
Eli Powell
What happened to him?
Charles Carter
>tfw Yang is your favorite fictional character of all time
Caleb Collins
>They had the naval advantage and superiority, however that doesn't mean Carthage's fleet was blockaded in a port. They couldn't mount a large invasion of Italy because Rome had the superior navy and that wouldn't have gone unnoticed.
That's what's understood with "controlling the seas". When people talk about how the Royal Navy "Controlled the seas" in the late 18th-19th centuries, they didn't blockade every hostile port either.
>What? No such thing happened.
livius.org
But my mistake. it wasn't when he was at Capua, it was at Crotona.
>Really? It's a well known fact.
No, it's something people say all the time on Veeky Forums without ever actually citing it. Show me a period source saying that the Carthaginian senate blocked the notion of sending reinforcements to Hannibal, because I'm calling bullshit. Give me a book.
Jonathan Lee
Too bad he got cucked by space snackbars
Carson Jackson
What a funny way to spell space (((jews)))
Gavin Flores
>(((Rubinsky)))
History truly never changes
Wyatt Smith
>Not Reuenthal
Michael Wright
Delete this image right now.
Charles Cook
Childhood is rooting against Rubinsky
Adulthood is realizing Rubinsky did nothing wrong
Levi Phillips
Reuenthal literally did nothing wrong.
Why did he expect to be executed if ye still fought under the Kaiser's banner?
Hudson Anderson
>believes in shitty chink alternative medicine
>surprised when the cancer kills you and even you fucklady ends torturing you during the last months of your life.
Truly the greatest existance of all.
Oberstein did nothing wrong. Feeling and emotions don't have to be mixed with statehood
Grayson Nguyen
>That's what's understood with "controlling the seas".
Not entirely accurate. The Carthaginians could have send reinforcements, they could send materials to Hannibal, they just couldn't mount an invasion of Italy and it wasn't because Rome dominated them navally, it was because they didn't control Sicily which was a vital base in ancient naval warfare
>But my mistake. it wasn't when he was at Capua, it was at Crotona.
The fuck are you talking about? That battle had nothing to do with reinforcements. If you're talking about Mago himself, he was acting on his own volition.
>No, it's something people say all the time on Veeky Forums without ever actually citing it.
Carthage Must Be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Civilization, the Carthaginians (2010) for one.
Xavier Carter
That entire plot line was pointless. His moral was already being told by the terrarists. Cutting it literally would have saved the entire series 10 or more episodes worth of scenes and dialogue without subtracting a single meaningful thing from the overall story.
In fact, that entire faction was fucking pointless other than serving as a mcguffin for why the other two factions were in stalemate for so long.
Chase Reyes
>The Carthaginians could have send reinforcements, they could send materials to Hannibal,
Then why did their historic attempts to do so fail?
>The fuck are you talking about? That battle had nothing to do with reinforcements. If you're talking about Mago himself, he was acting on his own volition.
I'm talking about how the Carthaginian attempt to send reinforcement and support by sea got them intercepted by a Roman fleet and suffer roughly 80% casualties. That speaks VERY badly for an attempt to do something similar post Cannae.
>Carthage Must Be Destroyed: The Rise and Fall of an Ancient Civilization, the Carthaginians (2010) for one.
That's not a source; at best, it contains a reference to an actual source, one of the not-quite primary source writers of the Roman Era who wrote about the war which every subsequent history works off of. That basically reduces the sources to Livy, Polybius, and Appian. Which one of them mentions this? Because if it's not drawn from one of them, it's someone just advancing their own headcanon.
Aiden Moore
one of the few anime I legitimately regret watching, kept thinking "maybe it'll get good next episode" and it never does. really hate it more because everyone here seems to love it or at least pretend to
Aiden Garcia
kys
Levi Wilson
no
Ryan Edwards
Its not for everyone.
At the least the pacing is good.
Ethan Diaz
>Then why did their historic attempts to do so fail?
Because they didn't. They actually did send a reinforcement to Hannibal after Cannae, but Hanno the Great convinced the senate to be a little more patient and that resulted in them sending a small force of 4,000 cavalry and some elephants.
The reinforcements Carthage sent to defend Carthago Nova weren't meant for Hannibal, they were entirely meant to defending their newly acquired wealthy territory. Mago and Hasdrubal acted on their own heads when they tried to reinforce him.
>I'm talking about how the Carthaginian attempt to send reinforcement and support by sea got them intercepted by a Roman fleet and suffer roughly 80% casualties. That speaks VERY badly for an attempt to do something similar post Cannae.
The fuck are you talking about? Are you sure you're not confusign the wars?
>That's not a source; at best, it contains a reference to an actual source, one of the not-quite primary source writers of the Roman Era who wrote about the war which every subsequent history works off of. That basically reduces the sources to Livy, Polybius, and Appian. Which one of them mentions this? Because if it's not drawn from one of them, it's someone just advancing their own headcanon.
What are you trying to say? By your own logic we shouldn't believe anything about Carthage at all considering that all of our sources on them are external. So let's just say that Carthage didn't exist at all. It was a made up story of Rome to make themselves look good.
Elijah Stewart
>Because they didn't.
Yes, they did.
> They actually did send a reinforcement to Hannibal after Cannae, but Hanno the Great convinced the senate to be a little more patient and that resulted in them sending a small force of 4,000 cavalry and some elephants.
Please source this.
>The fuck are you talking about? Are you sure you're not confusign the wars?
I literally linked you to Appian about it. Fuck, I'll fucking spoonfeed you.
livius.org
>Appian, War against Hannibal 11 (So that you know which war it's about)
>Hannibal was greatly depressed by the loss of his brother and of so great an army, destroyed suddenly through ignorance of the roads. Deprived of all that he had gained by the untiring labors of fourteen years, during which he had fought with the Romans in Italy, he withdrew to Bruttium, whose people were the only ones that remained in alliance with him. Here he remained quiet, awaiting new forces from Carthage.
>They sent him 100 merchant ships laden with supplies, soldiers, and money, but as they had not a sufficient force of rowers they were driven by the wind to Sardinia. The praetor of Sardinia attacked them with his warships, sunk twenty and captured sixty of them. The remainder escaped to Carthage.
1/2
Asher Allen
>What are you trying to say? By your own logic we shouldn't believe anything about Carthage at all considering that all of our sources on them are external. So let's just say that Carthage didn't exist at all. It was a made up story of Rome to make themselves look good.
It's very clear what I'm saying. All of our information about personalities and the conduct of the 2nd Punic war comes from Livy, Appian, or Polybius. I haven't read Mr Miles's book myself, but if he's an honest historian, any such information he has about these supposed personality conflicts costing Hannibal his chance to get reinforcements will itself be cited to one of those three somewhere in his book where he talks about that. Instead of mentioning a book by title and not actually even showing the passage so I can be sure you're understanding it correctly, nevermind whatever issues Miles might or might not have, just give me the ultimate source he's working from so we can see it right here and right now.
Aiden Hughes
>Yes, they did.
Whatever you say.
>Please source this.
Yeah, I don't feel like sourcing every single shit I say. It ain't that hard to check it up yourself if you're that interested. One quick google search is enough.
>I literally linked you to Appian about it. Fuck, I'll fucking spoonfeed you.
This is nothing meaningful and it came at the end of the war were practically everyhing was lost and the war decided. The only thing now was what peace Carthage was going to get. The reason they sent him these """reinforcements""" was for Hannibal to keep Rome busy a little while longer and prevent invasion of Africa.
We're talking here about *meaningful* reinforcements that could have decided the war.
Samuel Gutierrez
Wallenstein.
Juan Fisher
Jesus Christ man, here is the info on Hanno from that same site you cited yours:
livius.org
I don't have the time to pick every single thing from a book to you. I'm not here to educate you, I'm here to have a discussion. If you're not up to it, then go read the book instead.
Jackson Cruz
>We're talking here about *meaningful* reinforcements that could have decided the war.
You mean, the ones that get sunk en route, or the ones that take another half a year and might die anyway marching overland through the same route Hannibal took the first time around, only this time the Romans inciting the local Gauls to ambush them every week?
They couldn't send meaningful reinforcements, precisely because of the Roman naval advantage. All of your pathetic goalpost shifting (remember how you said that I was talking about the first punic war because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about back here?) doesn't change that reality. It wasn't personality conflicts, it was simple inability to meaningfully reinforce Hannibal in Italy which is why reinforcements were generally not sent, and why they failed to arrive even when the attempts were made.
>Jesus Christ man, here is the info on Hanno from that same site you cited yours:
Notice how it doesn't say he blocked any attempt to send reinforcements to Hannibal? You can read, can't you?
>I'm not here to educate you, I'm here to have a discussion
No, you're here to spread dumb sophomoric memes because you don't know enough about the punic wars to even have a meaningful discussion. You spout off a bunch of crap that is completely unsupported, and 'having a discussion' doesn't change that.
Alexander Russell
This is correct. Oberstein was the best man you could possibly have under you. His only fault is not understanding the need to keep people under you happy, and even then he used his unpopular reputation as a way to take all the blame for the nukes.
Parker Sanchez
no idea what that guy was talking about but khaild got recalled because he spent 100,000 denars which were meant for supplies commissioning a poem about himself. imperviously he had killed a man slept with his wife and was given one more chance but this was the last straw
Easton Price
How did Hannibal get back to Carthage if the Romans controlled the Mediterranean?
Jonathan Gomez
Yue Fei
Benjamin Campbell
@2774029
(((you)))
Kayden Bennett
He essentially slapped together a fleet in his temporary base in Crotona, and the Romans let him go, for reasons that are not entirely clear. Guys like Livy do not mention it, but do mention the size of Roman fleet detachments in the area (book 30 of Livy's History of Rome), as well as some of the squabbling of the different Roman commanders. Take your pick between they let him go, they were too busy squabbling to be able to intercept him, or he just got lucky and slipped through their fingers.
Ayden Nguyen
Stilicho of the Western Roman Empire got pretty screwed over.
>be Stilicho
>native-born Roman citizen
>love the fuck out of Rome and follow Nicene Christianity
>join the army like my father
>rise to the rank of general on grounds of being so based
>as I rise through the ranks some of my political enemies start shit talking me for my Germanic (half-Vandal) heritage
>ignore them and keep rising up and smashing Rome's enemies
>get promoted and marry the emperor's niece
>help raise army and lead it to victory in critical battle during east-west civil war
>serve so loyally and competently that the Emperor makes me guardian of his son before he dies
>become de facto commander of all Rome's armies
>defeat Gothic king Alaric repeatedly in his rebellions
>repeatedly scrape up armies out of nowhere and save Rome itself countless times from barbarian invasions
>enter negotiations with Alaric because we can be Allies and his demands are really not that unreasonable
>political enemies throw a fit
>accuse me of conspiring with the barbarians, citing my heritage again
>Emperor has me murdered
>state-sanctioned massacres follow, tens of thousands of other Germanic people serving in the Roman army are killed along with their wives and children
>mass defection ensues as a direct result
>Alaric comes back
>with me not around to stop him and the army I built disintegrated, he encounters little resistance and sacks it
>years later Roman historians remember me as a "half-barbarian traitor who armed our enemies"
>mfw
Hudson Richardson
Why did Carthage wage war against Rome during the first Punic war when they couldn't even beat Syracuse?
Levi Nguyen
Admiral Yi Sun-sin
Ryan Lee
>brother tells me to watch Galactic Heroes
>"you might wanna keep a notepad handy, all the names will confuse you"
>actually read and autistically memorized all of the odious bullshit from ASOIAF, down to the lords and their banners
>"lol this is nothing"
Matthew Kelly
Surena (Parthian general at Carrhae), emperor got jealous/afraid of his success and had him executed for winning.
Stilicho. Pretty much ruined his own name and dragged it through the mud trying his hardest to save the empire, pissing off just about everyone who was stupid enough to think they could fight everyone and win and reclaim their old glory. Ended up retiring after a mutiny against him and was later executed by the court.
Elijah Wright
The most famous case in Chinese history: Yue Fei.
>Emperor, your majesty.
>We are in Crisis now. You must choose who of these two to believe and safely steer the country to a proper course.
>Will you support valiant general, Yue Fei, who is on the verge of ridding Northern China of Jurchen scum?
>Or will you believe these two ministers and your shrew wife who have a personal grudge against your general?
>???
Cameron Howard
>the exact point when the quality of the show dropped significantly
Reinhard's death was the most masturbatory death i have ever seen in any story
Cooper Ward
>You mean, the ones that get sunk en route
The fuck are you talking about? I already told you they did manage to send him reinforcements - 4,000 Numidian cavalry. That's all he got. The rest were diverted to Spain.
And I think you got your facts again wrong because the Gauls were mostly ALLIED with the Carthaginians after Hannibal's crossing. That's why Hasdrubal didn't have the same problems Hannibal did when he stayed in Gaul territory and afterwards crossed the Alps himself. You should really educate yourself more onto Carthage before talking such crap, seriously.
>Notice how it doesn't say he blocked any attempt to send reinforcements to Hannibal? You can read, can't you?
"After the the battle of Cannae in 216, victory seemed within reach, and Hanno again argued for peace."
Even from your source you can deduce that Hanno wasn't keen on supporting Hannibal. Livy delves more into this and gives more detail as to why Hanno II didn't support him and why they didn't send him meaningful reinforcements. Also, he gives way more detail about the Carthaginian politics and the dynamics.
>No, you're here to spread dumb sophomoric memes because you don't know enough about the punic wars to even have a meaningful discussion.
I can say the same thing about you. Almost everything you said is wrong, in all of your posts.
Xavier Nelson
This guy
Yue Fei
en.wikipedia.org
Or this guy
Yuan Chonghuan (literally been cut to pieces and eat)
en.wikipedia.org
Funny they're also Chinese like Yang.