What are some legitimate arguments, if any, for gender being a social construct?

>Vine taught me to laugh

wtf its only been out 3 years max rofl, wast his made by a 14 year old?

What is your definition of gender?

Is it a boy or a girl dumbass

[citation needed]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Oh god fuck off, they don't have google in your shithole?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/

I'll take "What's a double negative?" for $100 Alex.

Really they should just stay traps, why cut your dick off? It's okay to be a trap.

There are only 2 sexes, male and female. XX-XY chromosomes; however, sometimes there might be a disorder for example: XXY. As for genders, you can have as many as you fucking want, doesn't make it any less retarded, but no matter what your gender is, your sex will be either male or female.

XXY is still male.

I take issue with this definition of gender. there are not separate words to refer to someone's sex and someone's gender, so to call someone being a man a social construct in reference to gender is often conflated to say that being a boy or girl in reference to sex is a social construct. that's why I prefer to use gender and sex to mean the same thing (as it is in normal conversation) and use gender identity to refer to the social constructs built on top biological sex.

Ill take "that wasnt a double negative you fucking ape" for 2000

No one has ever been born with both sets of sexual organs. Hermaphrodites are literaly a greek myth.

not only mentally retarded, but financially as well I see

gender isn't sex.

I can't help but feel contempt for that image.

plenty of cultures have a concept of a third gender, or at least subversion of roles

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muxe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koekchuch

honestly it surprised me too

I literally only go to Veeky Forums, youtube and various porn sites.

And sometimes wikipedia

Does this make downs syndrome a gender?

Well i think their is some truth in the argument. There are examples of certain objects switching from male to female association through history. Two of the more famous ones are
>Pink was at some points considered a boys color
>Men wore skirts

No, there is no legitimate arguments for "muh social constructed genders" for any sane people. Only lgbt degenerates and SJW think there is one.

Genders is NOT social constructed, only "social constructed genders" or "fluid genders" theory is social constructed and fabricated bullshit by those perverted, psychotic degenerates to justify their insanity and perversion. Those sick degenerates deliberately misuse social or cultural image about sex as their crazy "identity" to "construct" the delusion in their heads. Deeply believe you are what you are NOT is a typical sign of insanity. It's a sickness, not human right, and not legitimate argument.

Gender or sex is crucial physical and genetic trait of life forms on earth which are decided by nature and evolution, not by mental illness or delusion who against law of nature. You are existed because of sex. Almost every animals and plants on earth have natural genders, not just humans.

Go take a look those disgusting lgbt parades, if you think that's fine and "normal", then you're as crazy as them. I can't even post their fucking disgusting pictures on normal blue boards, otherwise it'll be deleted or banned.

I thought gender by definition was the socially contrsutced half of sex which is the biological half.

FPBP

look, nigga, your entire identity is a social construct. it's not just genders, that's an arbitrary limitation on this discussion that prevents anyone from learning anything.

nearly every behavior we have is informed by meme or something we observed as children and decided we liked after trying to imitate it. who "you" are is somewhere between your biological necessities for survival and rising to meet the physical and social expectations of the environment you developed in.

with that understanding, now let's hone in on gender. assuming you think of yourself as a man, your entire system of value and belief came from what you perceived to be "manly" during your developmental stages. whatever you think that is, e.g. building stuff, playing sports, not liking pink and dresses, it's all arbitrary and the criteria for what a man is would have varied wildly depending on the time and place you grew up in. you figured out your environment's criteria, conformed to it, and it works for you. that's cool. some people born as boys get to the conforming stage and then experience tremendous discomfort up to and including cognitive dissonance and depression (jury's still out on why, maybe hormone exposure in utero, maybe internal form of intersex disorder, maybe nonsense). then they try and evaluate the criteria for conforming to other genders in their environment, or stop trying to conform, and you end up with trans people

if you aren't the person described in the latter scenario, this is all you need to know
•trans people have been around as long as people have
•they aren't going away and can't control the way they feel about the incongruence between their biological sex and identity
•they are mostly harmless unless you're so insecure about your own shit that people minding their own business and doing what makes them happy upsets you

inb4
>B-BUT MUH DEGENER-
stop watching TV and go outside

Gender notions beyond simple biology are 100% social constructed.

/thread

fuck what they believe in, but in God's eyes, there will be two genders,

God can construct as many genders as ze want.

>Crazy progressive single mom sees her son play with her make up one day
>She believes that her son is lgbtqufje+ and tells him that he wants to be a woman
>Boy believes his mom and starts going through therapy where he is injected with a load of estrogen and testosterone blockers
>Becomes a literal freak of nature, literally still a male pumped with hormones and a mutilated dick
>Mother is so happy that she can show off her child to her Green voting friends
>B-but people have no right to consider this wrong because it was totally the childs own will right guys stop minding other peoples bussiness.

>he doesn't know what burden of proof is

oh god fuck off, don't they have basic critical skills in your shithole?

haha, i didnt know the source of this picture
Also, "Generations" are a piece of shit made up by old people to complain about young people
fact is, young people are always entitled and progressively stop being entitleed as they grow up
"kids these days" is an expression that dates back to the classical greeks. its just nonsense. theres not such thing as generations

So...
You are saying...
That...
Generations are...
Social Constructs?

Kek.

your main argument is people feel a certain way and its not a big deal now therefore we shouldn't worry about it? how enlightening

I guess ill tackle this in a different manner.

I feel the best a society can do is become more complex. the more complex a society is the higher the possibility it has the tools to survive a catastrophe or the higher the possibility it has to reaching a new peak of humanity and evolving into a more effective being.

with that being said, I think complexity should be funneled into certain directions. with the internet coming out and a relatively stable society, I think we are going to become a more complex society anyways so its not like we aren't given much and need to make due with the energy we have.

in this, I think this will lead to a 'golden age' of gender identity philosophy theory. which is great for them but I can think of many other fields that could do better with a golden age. for example I prefer the golden age the alt right is bringing on in the sense of an overwhelming culture of racial identity that has spread to music, like vaporwave, a new art medium, memes, and political philosophies ( to a lesser extent philosophy in general and to an even lesser extent other sciences in general)

I like topics like these so a rebuttal or reply is welcome

...

This is wrong. Trannies reaffirm gender essentialism more than they do tabula rasa bullshit anyway.

Unfortunately all the neckbeards will ignore this

Gender is a social construct because that's how the people who use the word define it. Which is a circular argument, but not wrong.

>have two sexes for reproduction
>sexes develop social norms
>depending on context, concepts of male and female are tied to social norms more than sex
>to talk about this phenomena, gender is split off from sex as a purely social construct

Really, it's only formalising what had been implicit in language for a while (you're not a real man, she's got bigger balls than you, et cetera). The main problem is it's become a hot-button political issue. The bit inside a cell that carries your DNA is called a nucleus, and a cluster of brain cells is called a nucleus, but biologists don't get upset when they hear another biologist using the other definition of nucleus. Unfortunately, with gender, people are so emotionally invested in their definition they feel defensive whenever they see the "wrong" definition being used. Yes, this goes for both sides.

>implying that a therapist cannot tell the difference between a child pressured to think a certain way about themselves vs. a child who actually believes that they are transgender.
>implying parents go out of their way to do this

Good thing the real world isn't some dystopian nightmare all /pol/acks seem to be living in.

Gender roles are in part a social construct. There's nothing innate about how we gender fashion, for example, it's entirely a social construct. But men and women definitely have inherent psychological differences, on average, as well. These influence gender roles and how we define what's masculine and feminine in part, but not fully.

Third genders and the like, in my opinion, aren't really third genders. Because these are almost always characterised as someone who assumes the social roles of the gender opposite their biological sex, I think it's just a more primitive society's interpretation of transgender people.
Indeed, there are many stories of third gendered people, most notably hjira, deciding they're actually just trans when exposed to the modern knowledge we have. If there were true third genders, they'd have traits that are entirely their own rather than just amalgamations of masculine and feminine.

Firstly, doctors don't give estrogen or testosterone to children, only puberty blockers which are completely reversible with only minor side effects (increased height being the main one, which generally isn't seen as a negative anyways). Generally, actual hormone treatment can only be done starting at 14, although even this is uncommonly early. They definitely don't perform sexual reassignment surgery on minors either.

Secondly, diagnosing gender dysphoria in minors is extremely strict, the idea that insane parents will manipulate psychiatrists into an incorrect diagnosis is ridiculous. If for some reason the psychiatrist is corrupt and chooses to diagnose despite the child not matching the criteria, then that's a problem with shitty doctors, not a problem with the idea of transgender care for minors.

Finally, ensuring that trans people have the opportunity for proper treatment starting from a young age is extremely important. Untreated transgender people have very high suicide rates, which decrease as a result of hormonal treatments, surgery, etc. Unfortunately, trans people who have gone through the puberty of their natal sex will always possess certain permanent physical features of their natal sex sex, which causes them great distress. Thus, for trans people who only start treatment after puberty, rates of suicide, depression, etc are still higher than the general population (although it's still reduced from having no treatment at all).

However, giving transgender minors puberty blockers means they'll never experience the damaging effects of going through the wrong puberty. As a result, trans people who transition as minors have rates of suicide and depression no higher than the general population.

Also, gender identity is highly personal and all but impossible to be changed by outside influence. Hence why actual transwomen still identity as women despite being told by most of society for most of their lives that they're really just a man and having masculine roles pushed onto them.

A mother telling her child that they're transgender when they're really not isn't going to change anything.

It's definition.

>there are places around the world that have three genders

Can we get an example?

>No one has ever been born with both sets of sexual organs. Hermaphrodites are literaly a greek myth.
You are wrong, hermaphrodites are pretty common in humans
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Gender being a social construct doesn't necessarily mean that it is not real. Both money and language are social constructs and they are both very real.
HOWEVER, while gender may be on a spectrum (meaning that no one is completely straight or gay) it doesn't imply that traditional gender roles are rubbish. History has proven more than enough that they are necessary for hierarchical societies and for the specialization of tasks. It's possible to appreciate a good male physique and not be attention whorish enough to demand a specific pronoun for the degree by which you are attracted to it.

I imagine he has hijras in mind, which are all over the place in the east.

Certain things associated with gender are mostly cultural(fashion for example) but most aren't. Sexual dimorphism is a real thing and it in turn makes gender a real thing that would exist even if society blew up and the few people left lost all touch or memory with it.

Cultural changes resulting in gender changing while sex doesn't. Easiest example is probably pink going from being a masculine to feminine colour.

Ain't rocket science.

>Easiest example is probably pink going from being a masculine to feminine colour.
And guess what most women are still as meek and submissive as they were in 10000 BC
They still collapse at the first sign of male aggression same as their female homo erectus ancestors did a million years ago
Fuck outta here with your tumblr nonsense

>Vine taught me to laugh
Since when is Vine funny?

So? That doesn't contradict what I wrote. Stop thinking about cocks, it's impairing on your reading comprehension.

Sexuality is unnatural nature. It doesn't make sense from a natural point of view to jack off to a fucking pair of leather boots, but yet it is still a manifestation of our sexual instinct.

Friendly reminder that John Money, the man who came up with the "gender is fluid" meme literally drove someone to suicide after destroying their entire childhood. The funny thing is his experiment failed and David Reimer, the subject of the experiment, ended up identifying as a male around age 9-11

google.ca/amp/s/samanthakatepsychology.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/david-reimer-possibly-the-most-unethical-study-in-psychological-history/amp/

Gender and sex are the same thing, both are biologically determined.

The David Reimer case actually supports trans people though, it just discredits the idea of gender identity as a social construct. Reimer was a male-brained person who was forced to live as a girl and have the physical characteristics of one. It's the same as any trans person, having your sense of self be incongruent with your physical body. The only difference is that his was caused by a quack psychologist rather than a mishap in the womb. Gender and sex aren't the same thing, they just aren't social constructs.

Only one I know so far:
>Being manly and feminine mean slightly different things in various parts of the world
>This is why words mean nothing

>There's nothing innate about how we gender fashion
Sorry but you will never sell clothes without pockets or shoes you can't run with to a man.

>when the post that disproves all the right-wing bullshit gets no responses cause it kills the narrative

Nice number.

No one answered your post because esoterism in the third world is not a valid proof that biology don't apply to humans.

/thread

His main argument is that societal roles are largely arbitrary. You wouldnt consider pederasty in the same light as the ancient Greeks.

WHat the fuck is Etsy?

1. It wasn't my post
2. This isn't even an argument, you're simply wrong and a number of cultures accross the planet with different conceptions of gender prove this.

Gender norms and whatnot are a social construct.

It is in part biological, but I think we downplay significantly the social aspect of how we define gender. Like me, I'm a girl with a fairly large ass, that's biological nothing I can do about it (working out a lot only made it more firm lol), but I never liked pink, a 'girls' color according to society. But I never identified as a boy, trans people I imagine take this to another level, due to the biological factor which hardwires them to identify a certain way.

This is fucking bullshit. I post a semi-pol related thread like this on Veeky Forums and I get fucking banned for 3 days. What the fuck Mods.

>Gender norms and whatnot are a social construct.
This is like your opinion.

Men are built strong, women are build to carry babies.
Men's brain is object oriented, women's brain is people oriented.
Men have a predisposition for confronting problems, women have a predisposition to take care of others.

Genders roles are just the natural consequences of our biology.

A spiritist/animist/chamanic religion in the Ural don't change that.

I think the extreme ends of both arguments are pretty retarded tbqh.

On the pro-side in fairness "gender is a social construct" does not mean that a claim that biological sex is a social construct, it means that the different roles males and females play in society is socially constructed. You can see this is partially true, a hundred years ago if we had this discussion there would be claims that females were biologically determined to stay at home doing housework while men went to work.

On the anti-side it is blatantly obvious to anyone that (while everyone is different) there are general behaviour traits that differ between males and females, even from a young age, that are biologically determined. Boys and men tend to be more likely to get into physical fights for example.

As for transvestites, if the medical claims about brain scans and gender dysphoria are true, only proves that there are some genuine biologically determined behavioural traits that differ between men and women.

>Etsy is a peer-to-peer e-commerce website focused on handmade or vintage items and supplies, as well as unique factory-manufactured items.
>0.0003 seconds in google

>Men are built strong, women are build to carry babies.

>Men's brain is object oriented, women's brain is people oriented.

>Men have a predisposition for confronting problems, women have a predisposition to take care of others.

These assertions are all proven wrong by the existence of third genders in some cultures. I'm not sure why you keep pretending to be right when you're demonstrably wrong. This is painful and embarrassing, just stop.

>These assertions are all proven wrong by the existence of third genders in some cultures

Not him and I wouldn't endorse all his views but that simply isn't true. Third genders exist because a small percentage of people are born that are biologically,either purely because of differences in their brain or because of actual bodily traits, that are between male and female.

Men are much stronger than women on average and while "built to carry babies" isn't the way I would phrase it, it is certainly true that only women and not men (and generally not third genders) are able to get pregnant and give birth.

I'm not saying he is right but the counter-argument you are making is even more embarrassingly factually wrong.

thanks

this

having a penis is one thing, but having that correlate to anger, hunting, beer, etc is arbitrary. there are bunches of standards that change throughout cultures and throughout time.

Trannies still can't decide between gender essentialism which justifies them mutilating their cocks or 76 different genders being on a spectrum. There are inherent differences between male and female brains except there aren't except there are exceptions there aren't. Where are all the crotchety old second wave feminists from the 70s on this? Shouldn't they be throwing a massive shitfit?

It's all degenerate jewish science and French post modernism I hope they all fucking die

There are a bunch of standards that have changed throughout history and place. A tendency to be more physically aggressive (not necessarily more prone to anger, but certainly more probable to express it physically) and being the hunter in early societies and more likely to find hunting an enjoyable pursuit in modern societies haven't changed.

Claiming the fact that some behaviours are variable means that all male and female differences in behaviour are entirely socially constructed is a logical fallacy.

How does some culture's exotism prove me wrong?

Are you denying that men have more muscular mass and a larger mass proportion than women?
Are you denying men are better at modelling 3D objects?
Are you denying the hormones of men make them have a body built for physical use and a behaviour more impulsive?

Even trans know that and take an hormone treatment to make their body look like the other gender.

If you refuse to look at the evidences, you are the young hearth creationist of the gender world.

The fact that there are tons of women who complain about their lack of pockets or wearing heels show that's it's a purely practical concern, not a problem of gender.

Show me a culture where the coal miners are female. Where the industrial, dangerous, physical jobs are taken by women.

Show me a culture where warriors are women, where sailors are women.

Just a single one.

If it was a problem for them, they would not complain at it. They would wear regular clothes and shoes and call it a day. If it too difficult to find some, they would make it and sell it. This is the men way.

What they do is to complain on the internet.

Also, as you may be aware, heels were originally unisex footwear.

So you're agreeing with my point, then? Certain parts of our perception of gender are entirely social constructs like fashion. But the genders also tend to have innate differences in how they act, think, etc.

>They would wear regular clothes and shoes and call it a day.
Many women already do.

Show me.

the ypj
stop moving the goalposts though

If you make the assumption that this social construct spontaneously appear in any society and that it is a pre requite to its survival, yes.

The YPJ is not a culture.
It is a part of a militia/irregular army.

...

Gender *is* a social construct - or rather, the term "gender" refers to the socialized elements of sex. People misuse the world all the time and some even deliberately misuse it to suggest that "sex" can change, but the thing is, gender is influenced by sex, but is not dictated by it.

Gender is what you'd refer to as "feminine" or "masculine" behaviors, and is distinct from the concept of sex, which is purely biological.

Yeah, this is the one that makes sense.

You have a dick or a cunt, but it doesn't lock you into acting a certain way.

Not him, but picking out tiny cases of outliers doesn't disprove the assumption of that sailors and soldiers, and really just about any job where physical strength is a potential factor in performance, is going to be overwhelmingly male-dominated. Yes, female pirates existed. But if you attempted to characterize piracy as a female profession because of that, you'd be outrageously deluded.