Why did miracles/wonders only work/happen in the ancient times when there was no science to validate/disprove them?

Why did miracles/wonders only work/happen in the ancient times when there was no science to validate/disprove them?
Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?
Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years that wasn't confirmed a fraud and/or a lunatic?

Where is the connection?

Also why does Veeky Forums like LARPing as Christians so much?

Other urls found in this thread:

lmgtfy.com/?q=medical miracles
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphysics
oca.org/saints/lives/1999/09/17/102638-martyr-sophia-and-her-three-daughters-at-rome
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sebastian
oca.org/saints/lives/2011/12/20/103594-hieromartyr-ignatius-the-god-bearer-the-bishop-of-antioch
oca.org/saints/lives/2016/04/23/101184-greatmartyr-victory-bearer-and-wonderworker-george
youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda
dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a160703.pdf
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Catholic church has recorded numerous miracles even up through the 20th century

Because it's not real you fuck and LARPing as religious always gets (you)s.

What is their treshold for a "miracle" nowadays?
Someone surviving cancer?

For Catholics it's mostly "medical miracles" wherein someone survives something after a doctor declares that there was no hope. They're necessary because to become a saint one must have at least two confirmed miracles occur after believers pray to the figure. I blieve this is meant to "prove" that the person is in heaven. I believe that this is also the reason for having a waiting period between death and canonization, to account for purgatory. If any actual catholics are present that could correct me, I'd appreciate it.

As far as roleplaying as religious goes, you're on a contrarian site. Appearing to honestly believe and argue for the presence of God who works in the world is against the prevailing attitude of the demographics of the site, so you'll get people who do so. It also provides a convenient "out" to philosophical questions and the unanswerable.

Miracles happen every day. Just not where you are. And even if one did, you lack the ability to tell whether or not it was a genuine miracle or a demonic counterfeit magic trick.

God spoke to the world through the prophets, and then through His only begotten Son. There is no more need for any prophets, and there exist only false prophets these days. False prophets do not hear from God and relay the word; they usually are frauds or involved with demonic divination spirits.

There are many Christians who spread the gospel of Jesus Christ here, to save people like you who otherwise would not find yourself in a decent church listening to the bible being taught to you.

>Why did miracles/wonders only work/happen in the ancient times

I've seen miracles in this age just fine.

Strangely enough, evidence gets deleted and retained and you get locked up in a psych ward and told to accept satan.

So I get how redneck hillbillies could fall for this but the Catholic Church is full of millions of educated people?? How can you honestly fall for such an obvious scam if you managed to attain a highschool degree?
They teach "Theology" and forget critical thinking and that maaaybe Magic isn't real?

Good but too mellow. Real Christfag LARPers are more angry because they know their make-believe faith is just made up.

Because God killed himself, why must you continually remind us of this depressing event?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Ask yourself this question.

Who is more likely to be lying to you? the person who does not believe he is accountable to anyone in authority over him, or the man who knows he is?

>the apparitions at Fatima we celebrated on Saturday, what never heard of them
>the communion turning to flesh once a year in one chapel which was proven to be human
>the Turin shroud which had an imprint throughout the cloth which we didn't know about until analysis is also false
>just because Jesus said he was the last one and the next incarnation will be the end of all mortal life doesn't mean we can't have another prophet
>why do people of a typical European descent like Kikestainity so much they're not even Jewish

>real LARPers
>I don't know what LARP memes
>make believe faith
Have you seen African witch doctors

Only Mormons get miracles nowadays because that is the one true faith.

A better question might be: why do people try to prove miracles? If an event is truly "miraculous," it violates the laws of nature, so secondhand relation is always going to fail to achieve understanding.

Probably the one who invents an unverifiable, absolute, unimpeachable and unquestionable authority and tries to convince me that my entire livelihood is dependent on submitting to him, and that the overlap between what this authority wants and what just so happens to be really good for my benevolent altruistic converter is pure coincidence


Tbqh, senpai

>why did miracles stop happening when people started becoming scientifically literate
surely just a coincidence

Answering from the Christian perspective:

If you wish to get your message out to as many people as possible, you should reveal yourself as early as possible while still existing at a time/place you know your message wll be promulgated.

In the Roman Empire during the first century there was a degree of globalisation which would allow the Gospels to be preached far and wide. Additionally, most of the human species would be born AFTER this point, meaning the number of potential believers would be maximised.

>fair enough user, but why doesn't God continually reveal himself throughout history every so often if he wants us to believe.

Revealing himself in later times (especially today) would make it undeniable to disbelieve as the concrete evidence would be everywhere.

If faith is a virtue then there must be room to disbelieve, else it no longer becomes a test. The rationality of sceptic's position has to exist in order to seperate those who chose to come to God and those who do not.

so the entire universe is just a test set up to see which humans give credence to stories that are passed down from authority figures

sounds about right

No, I don't believe in Sola Fide. Faith isn't the only requirement to inherit the Kingdom of God.

You are judged rather, on how you react to the Holy Spirit.

>so the entire universe is just a test

I'd be more disappointed if it wasn't. The idea that this is the best it can get is a rather depressing thought.

It's only disappointing if you're still hoping for another outcome (this is why almost all nihilists are just in nonage against Christianity). Once you do away with that useless hope-crutch, things are actually much more pleasant. That it all ends for you at death and that this is the only way the universe could be are actually the most comforting thoughts.

>Revealing himself in later times (especially today) would make it undeniable to disbelieve

But your god clearly doesn't care about this, he had no problem violating the free will of his prophets and of the apostles. And of course there's that whole "Bible" foolishness, the explicit purpose of which is to convince people to believe.

>Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?

lmgtfy.com/?q=medical miracles

It's not just that, it's the miracles themselves which have changed so much.
If you read about christianity in the late roman empire, you read about saints making people come back from the dead left and right.
Now it's "this person who had cancer and was taking meds for it survived".
It's really all a scam. Philosophy of religion, by itself, can be really interesting but christianity becomes a joke the moment you know about this stuff.

>Once you do away with that useless hope-crutch

If it's true, it's irrelevant what people make of it. Unless of course you're employing the old 'people believe in X because of Y therefore X isn't real' fallacy.

>That it all ends for you at death and that this is the only way the universe could be are actually the most comforting thoughts.

Only if you think there's a good chance you'l be going to Hell and nihilism is your way of justifying your sins.


>he had no problem violating the free will of his prophets and of the apostles

The violation of the apostles choice was necessary to allow others to believe in Him through their own volition and as I said earlier faith isn't the one test. Sola Fide is wrong.

> And of course there's that whole "Bible" foolishness, the explicit purpose of which is to convince people to believe

This statement pre-supposes that Christianity is false, otherwise The Bible would be the very antithesis of foolishness.

Why would I be afraid of going to hell if I know it isn't real? And heaven would be equally bad since it possesses the incomprehensible quality of "infinity" or "eternity." All physical objects come to a definite state of non-existence, and that I don't violate this inductive rule gives me comfort. Also, I'm not a nihilist. That's one of the most self contradictory philosophies

Yup.

Even if everything is as you say, the man who believes he is accountable to God is preferable to the man who is his own god.

It's a filter to see who can discern and believe the truth, and who cannot.

Faith is how you react to the Holy Spirit, because you cannot see Him.

Would you be afraid of being alone, in the dark, and on fire, forever, where the fire never goes out, and you never die, if you knew for sure it was real?

>Why would I be afraid of going to hell if I know it isn't real?

Because you don't know. You have come to the conclusion that God doesn't exist but you'd be intellectually dishonest if you were absolutely sure. There is no a priori proof of God's non-existence unless you wish to share with us what atheist philosophers haven't managed to achieve in millenia.

You therefore have to compare hypotheticals. One is eternal salvation/damnation. The other is endless void.

The only way you could chose the void is if you believe you will be damned or if you don't understand eternal salvation.

>And heaven would be equally bad since it possesses the incomprehensible quality of "infinity" or "eternity."

The only reason eternity is seen as bad is because we exist in a world of sin.
Without sin and suffering eternity cannot be compared in the way you perceive it.

>You therefore have to compare hypotheticals. One is eternal salvation/damnation. The other is endless void.
The only way you could chose the void is if you believe you will be damned or if you don't understand eternal salvation.

Or if I think the eternal salvation/damnation is incredibly unlikely.

>Why did miracles/wonders only work/happen in the ancient times when there was no science to validate/disprove them?
They happen in modern times, easily.
>Holy Fire on Orthodox Easter at Christ's Tomb
>Consecration of the Eucharist
>non-decaying, uncorrupted body after death of Holy Orthodox Christians/Saints

>Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?
It didn't. Science is an observation, doesn't explain all causes. Theories are not facts, and even the "laws" of nature are relative, meaning they're not set in stone.

>Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years that wasn't confirmed a fraud and/or a lunatic?
There have been many Saints gifted with clairvoyance:
>St Seraphim of Sarov
>St John of Kronstadt
>St Paisios
>St Theophan the Recluse
>St Kosmas of Aetolia
>St Matrona of Moscow
Just to name a few

Mohammed is a false prophet, predicted nothing, was nothing like a saint noe like an OT prophet

From a Catholic point of view, there is no new prophets as Jesus was to be the last and there are modern church approved miracles.

>Science is an observation, doesn't explain all causes. Theories are not facts, and even the "laws" of nature are relative, meaning they're not set in stone.
kys

So tolerant you fedoras are.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphysics
Go tell me that all the levels of micro-physics follows the observable "laws" of our current world.

>cure cancer on meds
Doctors thought they would certainly die, but they didn't, educate yourself before you wreck yourself
>late Roman Empire
>I.e. First Rome before acceptance of Christianity
No you hear of Christians surviving unsurmountable odds, then they die because the witnesses did not recant their false faith

There are no more prophets, just teachings to follow, if you reject the teachings then do not be surprised if at the second coming you are sent to hell

Because for them their is no divine, there is existence or nothingness, nothing else, because they cannot comprehend that perhaps the human body is flawed, because they cannot think of what that flaw would be.

Theories are what most evidence points to.
A true rule has no exceptions

>No you hear of Christians surviving unsurmountable odds, then they die because the witnesses did not recant their false faith
>false faith

Christ is Risen, friend.
You clearly don't know the Lives of the Saints.
oca.org/saints/lives/1999/09/17/102638-martyr-sophia-and-her-three-daughters-at-rome

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sebastian

oca.org/saints/lives/2011/12/20/103594-hieromartyr-ignatius-the-god-bearer-the-bishop-of-antioch

oca.org/saints/lives/2016/04/23/101184-greatmartyr-victory-bearer-and-wonderworker-george

Just a few of innumerable.

>From a Catholic point of view
And into the trash it goes!

It takes a special kind of faith to read something, agree with it, and then conclude something entirely contradictory.

Christian faith, that is.

>from the true church
Where are your other 2 6's Satan

Are we going to be autistic and comb through every saint from the good thief to the adoption of Christianity by Constantine?

That first one you linked was surviving odds
The one I remembered and made the point for was the one smothered with arrows and then beheaded

You or another user claimed those martyred did not experience miracles. Don't change the goalpost.

More like, I can't know, because you place God by definition beyond my (and all humans') comprehension. If I can't know it or understand it, why would I care what it thinks of me? Even if I'm "like an ant" to God, surely ants don't give a whit what a human thinks. I will continue joyfully in my antdom.

In comparing the hypotheticals, I find that there is no difference a praxi between "eternal salvation/damnation" and "endless void," save that the former applies notions of understandable human positivity and negativity to something beyond the grasp of humanity (that thing being "nothing" or "the void").

"Eternity" is just another name for the incomprehensible nothing, so it's always going to be "bad" in that sense. Here you have appealed to the same argument to ignorance I debunked above, you've just replaced "God" with "heaven."

>Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years that wasn't confirmed a fraud and/or a lunatic?

Because the truth is so unbelievable only a lunatic could believe it.

>science to validate/disprove

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yup.

Funny how that works. Almost as though I ignored all of your false, baseless opinion.

The claims of the Catholic church are demonstrably false, as none of them are incorporated into the bible.

They are nothing but the traditions of fallen, pagan men.

the thief on the cross is a saint; Constantine, not so much. Catholics in general, not so much. Catholic saints, not so much. Catholic priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, popes, not so much.

Because the truth is so compelling only a fallen rebel against God could ignore it.

This thread was a nice bit of christard baiting
>>muh miracles
Fucking retards.

>muh naturalism explains everything

>Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years
Because the New Testament was the final revelation, it's explicitly stated in the book.

Yo you'll have to show me what it is you believe to be false, I'm a little slow too--I just don't compensate for it by going on faith

>Probably the one who invents
False

>an unverifiable,
False

>absolute, unimpeachable and unquestionable authority
Good description of God, but again, we did not create Him. He created us.

>and tries to convince me
False.

>that my entire livelihood
False. Afterlife, not livelihood.

>is dependent on submitting to him,
That's Islam.

>and that the overlap between what this authority wants
You to not go to hell.

>and what just so happens to be really good for my benevolent altruistic converter
You to not go to hell.

>is pure coincidence
It's God's will that none should perish.

If you think I have a vested interest in YOUR salvation, you'd have to manufacture it in your mind.

This life isn't the end, and for Christians this life is a time to live a life in God's grace. They didn't die, but we're perfected in the Lord and are with joy beyond our comprehension now, very mich alive No real than us thanks be to our Living and Risen God.

>You to not go to hell.

Then why doesn't he just make it so no one goes to hell? He's all-powerful. Is he not powerful enough?

>claims that miracles no longer happen
>has no way of proving his claim

Great science

It does actually, and you're stupid if you think otherwise.

>muh natural laws
>muh empirical observation have predictive value
>muh impossibility of unique events

This October we're going to celebrate a miracle on the scale of the parting of the Red Sea. Of course, not everyone saw it, so there are still doubters.

>muh this and that
Blah blah faggot. Magic doesn't exist and you're wasting your time trying to convince people otherwise.

In Orthodoxy and thus since Christianity's beginning, it is revealed that "Hell", as known in the modern West, is incorrect. Hell is a place where those who turn from God go. God doesn't torture, nor hate, nor make you suffer, but rather your turning away from God causes you to suffer. God's warmth, His love and grace, you despise it as you did while in this world. Hence, it burns you through your own passions. This same warmth is being joyful to those who loved God in this life, and hence eternity.
An example of this is Christ appearing to Saul (St Paul), blinding him in immense pain. Only upon Baptism, not faith alone, did he become healed through His love of God, the same uncreated light that He was blinded by.

Prove the first case and the second case presupposes sola scriptura needlessly.

>Why did miracles/wonders only work/happen in the ancient times when there was no science to validate/disprove them?

You're just unaware of them.

>Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?

They didn't. Every time the Catholic Church declares a saint, 1 to 2 document and vetted miracles have to be certified. Usually there's many more that are reported but have spottier documentation.

>Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years that wasn't confirmed a fraud and/or a lunatic?

Depends on what exactly you mean by "prophet".

In the weakest sense of people who got messages from god, their have been. The most famous in recent history are the 3 children of Fatima that happened 100 years ago this year. There also was Our Lady of All Nations from March 25, 1945 to May 31, 1959 that foretold of the State of Israel, the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the rise of the identity politics nonsense in America.

In the strong sense of prophet as the creation of a brand new faith, it's dogma that won't happen again.

>replacing "faggots" with "bad posts"
>tumblr filename

>If faith is a virtue then there must be room to disbelieve, else it no longer becomes a test. The rationality of sceptic's position has to exist in order to seperate those who chose to come to God and those who do not.
That's retarded.

There are still miracles everywhere. Source:
youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

>be on /x/
>atheist comes
>I don't believe!
>here do this ritual to summon the dick demon
>does it
>It's a mental process

There's no winning with these retards, but an atheist alive the moment he claims there is no evidence, because he'll just ignore and rationalize it

>but
burn*

>Why hasn't there been a Prophet in the last 1000+ years that wasn't confirmed a fraud and/or a lunatic?
Prophet, in the Christian tradition at least, refers to biblical figures in direct communion with God, spreading his will to the world, Jesus being the last of these. In Judaism, this was attributed to the Holy Spirit, who was literally defined as the spirit through which the prophets prophesized, but in the NT Jesus states that the Holy Spirit is a guide to all mankind, and was gifted to all the Apostles. These prophets were sent to guide Israel in times of crisis, yet after Jesus the faith was complete, so there was no need for any more prophets. If there were another, he would simply be denounced as a heretic. That being said, their function survives in the lives of the saints, who are considered in union with God through the Holy Spirit in their terrestrial lives.

If you want evidence of direct communion with God, I suggest you read the biographies of St. Therese of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese of Lisieux. I wouldn't be surprised if you consider them lunatics, but their works are the closest you'll ever get the inside of a prophet's head.

>Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?
>Why did certifiable miracles stopped happening once science was advanced enough?
As others have stated, they do still happen and the Church verifies them. If you want a truly baffling one look up the Miracle of the Sun. I
get the skepticism but you're never going to believe one unless you see it for yourself so why do you care?

>More like, I can't know, because you place God by definition beyond my (and all humans') comprehension.

Not true, you can attempt to logically disprove God's existence.
For instance:
-God is all loving
-God is all powerful
-There is evil in the world
-Thus God doesn't exist

This is an attempt at a proof for atheism. Although it has been rebutted, if there was no flaw in the argument you could disprove God.

The whole "you can't disprove a negative" argument in religious debates is bollocks. You can indeed prove God's non-existence through logic, it's just atheists can't come up with a proof.

Biggest delusion in history.

>muh bible
Apostolic succession 1
Luther and his Ottoman allies 0

Not even a Roman Catholic (I'm Orthodox), but this miracle is actually pretty verifiable: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda

>So I get how redneck hillbillies could fall for this but the Catholic Church is full of millions of educated people?? How can you honestly fall for such an obvious scam if you managed to attain a highschool degree?
>They teach "Theology" and forget critical thinking and that maaaybe Magic isn't real?

Because christianity is present since so long that it is a part of western identity, it's a system that encompasses our values and traditions.
I've never received any religious teaching but I recognize the fact I am culturally christian, that's not a question of personnal choice, that is just what it is like my hairs being blonde or my feet being big.

It's easy to attack religion, but it's harder to propose a viable alternative in terms of social glue.
The moment you suppress religion you will see a significant part of the population either sink into self-destructing nihilism or embrace substitute beliefs which are most of the time political (see the left which basically replaced God with the dogma of equality, or a part of the far right with the one of race) which can be far worse as the XXth century shown it.

Also even if you consider cults and ancestral wisdom have no legitimacy you are still left with existantial questions like the origin of our universe, the sense of life, the existence of a creator, etc... to which when confronted to people will pick an answer over an absence of one, even if they don't believe 100% of the answer.

tl;dr belief in a religion is motivated by multiple factors, most of them make sense both for the indiviual and a society

Okay hold on, maybe i can help with this. Part of it is that quite literally God said after the messiah, he wouldnt do any more big flashy thigs, because each one taught a lesson, and in the messiah would be the entirety of the word made flesh, there wpuld be silence because there would be nothing left to say. However, miracles have happened repeatedly since, and a catholic thig taught is that all manner of small miracles occur constantly and we jist dont attribute it to god because secular worlds attribute it to mathematical odds

>muh religious delusion

Truly the last, desperate refuge of atheists, when all other arguments have failed.

>Strangely enough, evidence gets deleted and retained and you get locked up in a psych ward and told to accept satan.
This is what Christcuckolds actually believe

>Muh religion of peace

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Video killed the Radio Star and wonders don't happen anymore since the devil invented the video cam.
dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a160703.pdf