Why is this board filled with butthurt nationalists?

Thats the problem, that the people who care about History are driven away.

I remember when we all complained about the '&Humanities' part, but right now thats a small issue, because the vast majority is just endless shitposting and nazi posting.

I agree. The first month or so was glorious. But even then I saw a lot of people predicting the exact outcome we got. I hope those little nazis are proud of themselves.

I will never understand, why restrictive mods have crushed boards like /sp/, but there seems to be no moderation at all here on Veeky Forums were its really needed

Most historians are filthy atheist commies

Most Veeky Forumstorians are god-fearing reactionaries and fascists.

Imprison the filth and turn this board to /hre/

this

Veeky Forums moderation is a true enigma. I don't think there's a human on planet Earth who actually understands how the whole thing works.

Why would anybody else be interested in history?
It's the non-nationalists who are the weirdos here.

It's funny hearing some of you go
>I study history to escape real world politics
So you think history is like comic books and video games or something?

I think this is an inherit problem of the Veeky Forums system.
Everybody is user, everybody is equal. The post of a shitposter from /pol/ is worth just as much as that of an professional historian writing here.

Stable society.

What's exactly is wrong with nationalism? Why is it such a boogeyman?

i dont understand the question
you think its impossible to be interested in politics without beeing a nationalist?

It caused two world wars, among others

>Implying ww1 was caused by nationalism

>WWI caused by imperialist monarchies trying to settle scores
>WWII caused by the expansion of National Socialists and Soviet Bolshevism

What did he mean by this?

Do you think nationalism in 21st century is as violent as it was in 20th? I find it a perfectly rational political ideology that can be misused just like any other.

nationalism isn't as violent in 21st century because it lacks power.
In the western world, the powerful leaders prefere global cooperation rather than nationalistic egoism (that is, until Trump came in power).

We are no better people than we were in 20th century, if Le Pen and others come to power, Europe would turn into a battlefield once more

Cool, so National Socialists werent nationalistic?

This post absolutely reeks of Veeky Forums bias. First of all you might want to consider the political leanings of real academic historians. Spoiler alert: not a lot of nationalists there. Second of all you have to consider the fundamental nature of history. Most history lies outside of your given National borders. If I'm an American learning about Chinese history how in the hell could I realistically be a nationalist? It's the /pol/tard larpers that would be regarded as weird anywhere else but here.

But people would normally be more interested in actual historic discussion than just shitposting.

And even if not, then there should be part shitposting and part normal threads, for whatever interest you have. I personally dont care much for Hitler or Jews or the same lolz so funy maymays, but hey its fine as long as there are still other threads.

But in truth its hardly any real discussion anymore and most threads about actual historic topics die very quickly, while always the same stuff keeps on the frontpage.
Which in turn causes more and more of the remaining people interested in history to leave, turning the whole board into pol 2.0 for good.-

>Why would anybody else be interested in history?

Yeah, because not being a retarded nationalist piece of shit means you don't have an interest in history, science, or philosophy. I guess all they should do is jerk off and watch anime, right?

read this.

orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

Wrong

We had nothing but Hitler, WE WUZ, aliens, and southerners butthurt about the General Grant mod during the first month.

What is rational about devoutly serving a made-up political entity?

Fucking nationalists keep talking about it like their belief system is the only one that allows for selfish egoism and looking out for your own interests. Except people have been doing that long before the nationalist myth was invented, and will do that long after it's gone (and if there is a God, it will die fucking soon and permanently).

Nationalism isn't based on economic or even moral reasons. It's simply fiction. People digging up the bones of people they had nothing to do with from two fucking thousand years prior and roleplaying about how those are their ancestors!!!

Nor does it have anything to do with culture. Often, nationalism separates people that have the same culture and puts up a divide where there shouldn't be one.

Nationalism is a million times worse than any death cult, and it's fundamentally supported by insecure and spineless weaklings that have no achievements of their own and project themselves upon people from the past.

Pro-tip, you have more in common with the guy from the other side of the border today than you do with your (supposed) great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

The problem is that over time, low effort memes and bait take over, because they are an easy way to get guaranteed replies, thus pushing the threads on top, and actually interesting discussion slides to the top.
In my opinion, what Veeky Forums really needs is a far more strict moderation when it comes to creation of threads.

Many people start appreciating their own history through interest in general history. They form feelings for their culture, nation and history. For one, I know I did. The conceit of globalists who view those respectful of their own culture as 'backwards' or 'stupid' irritates me to no end. The butthurt and larping can get pretty annoying, though.

> Do you think nationalism in 21st century is as violent as it was in 20th? I find it a perfectly rational political ideology that can be misused just like any other.

Frankly yes.

The countries that have less violent expressions of national pride have all had it beaten out of them by way of a couple million deaths.

Nationalism is the ideological equivalent of "Fuck You, Got Mine". People who are like that in real life are assholes, nations who do that inevitably end up purging their minorities at some point.

>such petty concepts

Could you give me an example of a non pitiful concept?

>hurr durr nationalism is bad

Nationalism won though.
If it didn't , we would still have empires.

It is also arguable that nationalism facilitated the rise of living standards and technology, leading to the most prosperous era in human history.

>b-b-but muh nazism
Not all nationalists are nazis, autist.

What it needs is fucking GENERALS. I don't understand why there are none here. The whole idea that they're "elitist" as some people say is fucking mong tier.

Every day there are THE SAME GODDAMN THREADS.

>were spartans were really that great
>did hitler know the jews were being killed
>why did hitler attack russia
>muslims kill everyone
>name a single black civilization
>is china's history faked

I could go on. It's the same shit repeated DAY AFTER DAY AFTER FUCKING DAY AND THESE MODS DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

Just imagine if all of this bullshit about WW2 and the Holocaust and Hitler could be contained to a single thread. Aaaaaaa. AAAAAAAAAa. THE DREAM.

And it's not even like Veeky Forums is a super-fast board that would make generals impossible. It's sluggish as fuck. Threads last for day as it is, but retards are too stupid to check the catalog.

“Butthurt nationalist” here, also an oldfag and user of Veeky Forums since its launch. I find it amusing how you people are berating over the fact that there is a stronger right-wing presence on this board. Because I remember firmly that when Veeky Forums was created it was immediately attempted to be subverted as an anti-thesis against /pol/, most likely by /leftypol/ since I saw several threads were they were discussing their process. You made a comment that was (slightly) right-wing? People would tell you to back to /pol/ rather than pursuing discussion. Yes, there is a large frequency of shit-posting here, but that is the case on a lot of boards. My advice? Grow thicker skin, keep discussing history with posters who are willing to and ignore obvious shitposting.

>Trump is a nationalist
>if Le pen came to power, we would have another world war

Do you get your info from reddit ? This is such a poor level of political analysis.

A historian should try to view history objectively, and not through the lenses of his own nation/religion/ideology/whatever

actually why not make generals, do the mods delete them?

>Trump is not a nationalist
>"America First"

>actually why not make generals, do the mods delete them?

I'm not sure if they would outright delete them, but if they don't enforce the idea by deleting related threads then we can't do it without them.

>[Press X for doubt.]
X

>Pro-tip, you have more in common with the guy from the other side of the border
Sure, but I don't see how me and the Sub-Saharan guy across the Mediterranean have anything in common nor why he should enter the EU rather than be helped where he originally lived in.

You are not an oldfag, Veeky Forums isn't even that old, and literally on day 1 /pol/ was making threads about his was /pol/ 2.0 and they were trying to make it a /pol/ colony. This is why butthurt nationalists are the worst. They're filthy historical revisionists. This is true of pretty much every nationalist movement.

Doubt me all you want. But I have been on Veeky Forums since 2009 and was a frequent poster on /int/ before I came to Veeky Forums. I remember how people there were craving for a history board because it all went to shit when it just became a large collection of /generals/.

Meaningless campaign rhetoric. By the same logic, Obama was a socialist.

Nothing "nationalist" has been done during his presidency.

>What Veeky Forums needs is more generals

NO FUCK OFF GENERALS ARE THE BANE OF ACTUAL DISCCUSSION LOOK AT Veeky Forums

Yeah of course /pol/ tried to raid the board. But you are honestly delusional if you don't think that the leftist remains of Veeky Forums tried to find a "safe haven" on Veeky Forums. It was a constant struggle between ideology and nationalists were not the only ones. And with oldfag I mean Veeky Forums in general.

>What Veeky Forums needs is more generals

NO FUCK OFF GENERALS ARE THE BANE OF ACTUAL DISCCUSSION LOOK AT Veeky Forums FOR FUCKS SAKE

Could try, mark the generals as at least a place where semi-knowledgeable posters can gather.

So you are pride that you pollute this place, which is meant for objective academic discussion, with your right-wing ideology?

Say what you want about
>/leftypol/
But at least they actually knew a thing or two. I'll take pretentious twats who have actually read a book than memers who don't know a thing about history or anything for that matter. In short you're right, /leftypol/ and /pol/ both fought over the fate of this board. And now it's clear that /pol/ won. And all of the people who actually care and want to learn a thing or two are worse off because of it.

>My advice? Grow thicker skin, keep discussing history with posters who are willing to and ignore obvious shitposting.
Pretty funny that a self described oldfag would say that nothing is wrong or needs to be changed.

thanks god Trump is an idiot with no political experience or a power base.
But his success shows us how dangerous nationalism still is

> "I'm a socialist" - Barack Obama

Things that never happened for $400 Alex.

If you actually followed 2008 on non-Fox News venues, "Obama is a Socialist" is a nonsense statement.

this
I often browse /int/ and you can hardly find any interesting threads on the front page because it is full of shitty generals

That's not nationalism. Wanting to keep total strangers out of your private sphere is just common sense.

I relate nationalism more to the idea of keeping old grievances for no fucking reason other than some stories your granny told you about.

Like, say... being told that your people used to live in the Middle-East two thousand years ago, and then going and committing genocide against the native population because you think it's Your Land (TM).

>2009
>oldfag

Just another reminder that any self described oldfag should be ignored at all costs.

Generals are stupid but a Hitler/ neo-nazi containment general would be good.

No, I am a nationalist but I take multiple perspectives on history, including marxist ones. I try not to let my ideology colour my perception of history. However, since history records were written by people, objectivity in history is implausible in the first place. Furthermore, academic discussion used to have a much stronger right-wing presence before World War 2, ou might aswell call the change of ideology after that event in academia a "pollution" aswell.

how the fuck would Le Pen turn Europe into a battlefield?

Other Question: How can you still be a Nationalist after you have learned some decent history?

by leaving nato and eu, for starters

???

I don't know about Veeky Forums, but both /an/ has generals, and they're very good and useful. And I'd compare Veeky Forums more to /an/ than Veeky Forums.

Some people on this board just care about one topic or one era in particular. Generals could simplify this by gathering all the information in one place for the new comers.

How exactly would that be bad?

It also depends what you mean by discussion. A guy asking for the millionth time of the Holocaust happened isn't a fucking discussion. He's a lazy cunt that won't do his own research.

Why is putting THE COUNTRY YOU'RE THE FUCKING PRESIDENT OF first wrong you fucking retard?

Well considering I have been here for nearly a decade I would say so. Are you here from before?

I don't know about /int/, but Veeky Forums has been my main (and pretty much my only, aside from rarely visiting /tv/, Veeky Forums or /wsg/) board since it began. I have never noticed a large presence of /leftypol/, while on the other hand we pretty much have holocaust denial dailies, [collapse] dailies, >wewuz dailies etc. Hell, I've seen more /r9k/ threads here than /leftypol/. This site is pretty neutral regarding politics, being a healthy mix of everything, /pol/ raids notwithstanding as they are mostly not regular posters.

and how would that lead to war?

It's called /pol/ and it doesn't work.

Simple, he hasn't learned some decent history. He can probably regurgitate some facts about dates and events, but not the implications or the cause and effect of those events.

not him, but wrong is an incredibly subjective term dude.

...

you don't see how a bunch of powerful countries close to each other, with no defensive or economic ties could lead to a war?
Just look at WW1

Look, you are fucking embarrassing yourself. I've been here from 2008/2009 too and I still wouldn't describe myself as an oldfag.

By the time we came, Veeky Forums proper was already dead. We're not summerfags, but we're definitely not oldfags.

Veeky Forums has changed, its users have changed but that is the way it happens. However, some things have been the same since the start. I remember how I saw a thread where an Englishman and Frenchman were debating on the battle of Agincourt, nowadays you can still find that on Veeky Forums.

No offense, but I don't think you have the qualification to judge the objectivness of professional historians.
Saying that Historians can't be objective because they are people is like saying that science in general can't be objective because scientists are people

>Implying European nations didn't have economic ties to each others before ww1
>implying ww1 wasen't caused by a shitload of defensive pacts and alliances

Who should POTUS look after then if not the USA?

By declaring war?

They didn't have economic ties that would even come close to a single market.
And there is a difference between "a shitload of defensive pacts" and one single defensive pact in which all European countries participate

I don't see what that really has to do with /leftypol/. Sounds like something you would see on /int/ which is just a shitty off shoot of /pol/ in terms of academic understanding or political leaning.

When has LePen ever threatened to declare war?

no one. that's his job. however, simply doing one's job doesn't make one "right".
this is why i was pointing out that "wrong" is a subjective term.

You're righ, oldfag was not the proper name for our generation of users, as it was called the great cancer of '08/'09. However, the fact remains that we've been here for nearly a decade, the people who were original and genuine oldfags are long gone and the vast majority of users nowadays are people who joined from reddit during GamerGate. Compared to that, you're old as shit my friend.

becasue the ydont breed discussion they breed insular fucking hugboxs and threads that never fucking die

You mean the single defensive pact that Le Pen also wants out of?

That was not referring to leftypol. But rather to the idea that certain topics were discussed are still seen today on Veeky Forums. Refering to the fact that things have not changed too much. However, I do agree that there is much more depth on Veeky Forums compared to other boards, and ideological strive can ruin that. But so does shitposting.

>Cool, so National Socialists weren't nationalistic?

They certainly weren't the traditional kind of German nationalist. And by today's standards the Allied Liberal powers of the US, Britain and the Commonwealth, the ones that actually fought against the Nazis were, you guess it, nationalists.

>the people who were original and genuine oldfags are long gone

I wonder where they are now... They must have a safe haven somewhere.

>They certainly weren't the traditional kind of German nationalist

>people still believe this

Being objective is a white rabbit. A historian can be conscious of his own bias, he can be critical, he can show integrity. But he can not be 'neutral'. One man's neutral is another man's bias.

They either grew up or went to wizard chan if I had to guess.

Well for one, I am pursuing a MsC in a social science. One of the first things they taught us was the objectivity of our research. Now hard sciences like physics can be truly objective. However, when researching history there remains a bias from the author/researcher. Which allows room for discourse amongst those who disagree with him/her and provides a broader range of perspective, but not necessarily an absolute truth.

The quality of discussion can vary wildly between boards. And my sentiment is that the ideology of /pol/ has driven away other crossboarders that might have brought with them a richer more intelligent standard for discussion. Ideology is secondary here. Nobody really cares if your a nazi on Veeky Forums. It's just that those people were so loud and numerous that most people have written off Veeky Forums. That can only change if mods get rid of the /pol/ posting.

The problem is that it is a bit too much of a grey field. If someone is an actual revisionist but uses sources and logic to back up his statements, then his opinion should not be discarded but rather confronted by those who oppose them.

I'll give you an example'
Rightwinger makes a statement/claim
Leftwinger gives critique
Both engage in a discussion using logic and sources.

Although both have ideological motivations, there is still a solid discussion rather than just shouting "REEE LEFTIE KEK KEK" and "STORMFAGG OUTTT".

The problem is that sometimes this can be a bit of a thin line and would give the mod a large responsibility to keep things civil. But who knows what motivation this mod has? What if he has a certain set of beliefs that allow him to remove what he likes.

People can ree all they want, but if you actually want decent, sourced, historical information, /r/askhistorians is infinitely better than his. Anyone who is genuinely interested in history will find that subreddit far more conducive to good debate, leaving his with /pol/acks and the "reddit spacing" crowd.

But as you say, that's dry information. You ask a question and they respond if you're lucky, like asking a more competent Google for an answer.

I wouldn't say that's what Veeky Forums is.

Im a nationalist to some degree and I dont want to start murder rampage in sweden or russia just because of history. Maybe your problem is your view on nationalism and not nationalism itself? You dont think socialism = gulags and genocide so why is nationalism = hitler and holocaust?

In theory I agree with you. Moderation should not be based around a persons ideology. But unfortunately we are well past the point of nuanced moderation that would be required to target "shitposters" specifically. You need to look at major trends. In short /pol/ has become the biggest board on Veeky Forums. As they would say back in the day it's the cancer killing Veeky Forums. And therefore needs to be contained at all costs. And the easiest way to ID a /pol/tard is by ideology. Or racism. And I would argue that a blanket ban would be the only way to guarantee success even if it's overly oppressive. But that's never going to happen because the administration has never been so hands off. At least in my experience.