1850 Taipeng rebellion ~20 million dead

Well if the 100 million estimates are correct, it actually wins, hence the possibly. The vast, vast majority place it on the 40-70 million estimate though, which actually puts it about on par with the Mongol conquests and only behind the high-end estimates for WWII.

All this because of some autist calling himself Jesus's brother

Don't forget the Dungan Revolt which killed 12 million people. It started off as an argument over bamboo poles and escalated into a full-on ethnic war.

Ant Mindset. Chinks are sub humans

China had a hard life...

That's basically how they hold elections.

>Is this period the worst for any individual country/nation ever?

Yes, in China kids are taught about the "Century of Humiliation" and taught to make China great again.

>Also, how the fuck do people deal with millions of their country men dying every so often? Do they just get desensitized to it?

Chinese learned that to avoid tragedies like the past, one must be strong. So we have to be strong, I guess.

Honestly what the fuck. Has any other country in history been able to compete with these crazy death tolls?

The
>Opium wars
>Taiping Rebellion
>Boxer Rebellion
>Warlord era
>Japanese invasions
>KMT-CCP civil war
>Great Leap Forward
>Cultural Revolution
all happened within less than 200 years.

Can you spot the Taiping Rebellion, WW2, and the Great Leap Forward?

>Ant Mindset.
>Chinks have toppled more governments than Frogs can brag of.
Hmmm.

100 years not 200. That'd be what, 1850 to 1950?

India with famines but India doesn't get that death toll when it comes to conflict at least since the 1700s.

I'd think when you have that much population people naturally end up being treated like mere insects by those in power.

If you're a country of 30 million then 1 million voters or people upset at you is worthy of attention.If you're a country of 450 million 1 million would be 0.22% of the population. China reached 450 million by the end of the 19th century. Keep in mind the USA today isn't even that populous. We lost 2% of the population in the civil war and 0.32% of the pop in WW2.

I'd never want to be born a chinaman. Not because of racial matters, I'd be fine being Taiwanese.

>be child
>when I grow up I wanna work in the government!
>study real hard
>fail entrance exam
>dedicate life to becoming God-Emperor and eradicating all traces of the test you failed, killing AT LEAST 5% of the human race in the process
When Hong got to the 53rd question on millennium old poetry, he saw the truth. The answer wasn't A, or B, or C, or even All of The Above. The answer was to kill everyone.

My favorite part was that when he had his "revelation" he'd never even read or owned a Bible much less had anything to do with Christianity. He interpreted his visions based on some evangelical pamphlets he was given by a missionary a long time before and never bothered to look at until that point.

that's crazy
never knew about that war, though i knew china has had massive bloodshed for centuries

How can China still exist? Most other places would have completely crumbled.

It's 139 years.

>How can China still exist?
The Communists. Seriously, the KMT tried and failed to end the warlordism for years, but the Communists managed to. Too bad they went on to do dumb shit like the Hundred Flowers campaign and the GLF and the Cultural Revolution, but they did unite the country.

There's natural borders and high population density.

It's like Egypt that way.

A Chinese friend of mine put it this way once when we were talking about Mao

>A million in America is different from a million in China. We have a billion.

>the Mongol conquests
It's extremely hard to say exactly how many the mongols killed, especially because most historians were settled people i.e butthurt that they got btfo by yurt-squatting savages.

That's dumb. America has ~300 million, so killing 30 million chinese should be equivalent to... 9 million Americans. Find the American who would be totally fine if the government caused a famine among other things that lead to the deaths of 9 million people.

There has to be another explanation besides just 'lol proportions".

Maybe because Chinese people are used to suffering and they got desensitized. Meanwhile most Americans are living privileged lives and complain about the smallest thing.

Chinese people aren't really people.

It kinda did cease to exist, with China from about 1916 to 1928 more or less being a country in name only. In 1919, there were two rival republican governments split along the traditional north/south axis, along with dozens of regional warlords that coalesced into different cliques depending on the political climate of the time. Even after 1928, the country had yet to be fully unified, with large portions of the country not directly controlled by the official government.

The more people you have, the less valuable the individual life of a citizen is.

its worth noting that during the taiping rebellion there were 2 other major uprisings going on at the same time

Anti Qing sentiment was extremely high, people were angry over economic inequality, particularly land distribution, institutionalized racism, and the government's conservatism. The millennialism was just icing.

It's telling that the uprising lost its momentum when they made Nanjing their capital and when they tried to start carrying out revolutionary reforms found it to be much harder than they thought it would be, and instead of redistributing land (which was the main rallying cry of the revolution) the leadership allowed themselves to be buyed off by landlords to spare them from redistribution, and turned anyone who dared speak out against this (or just didn't bow deep enough) into a "celestial lamp" which means they were burned alive. So they just became more corrupt and brutal than the Qings. Instead of Nanjing being their capital it became their tomb.

When you have a civil war in a country the size of China, you get the kind of death tolls Europe needs a continent-spanning conflict to approach.

It's not that life is cheap, it's that wars are bloody, civil wars often moreso, and that China is goddamn big.

>When you have a civil war in a country the size of China, you get the kind of death tolls Europe needs a continent-spanning conflict to approach.
This. China is almost the size of Europe but with even more people. A Chinese civil war is equivalent to a war with all European countries fighting against each other.

But even European civil wars like the Napoleonic wars, the Seven Years War, the Thirty Years War, hardly even approach something like the An Lushan Rebellion. Even WW1 barely makes it into the same ballpark.

The Thirty Years war wiped out 40% of the population of Europe.

A lot of Chinese Civil Wars are existential.

You have a government that either wants to survive a rebellion and crush whoever is responsible.
You have a rebellion that wants total victory.
Or in cases of "Warring States" scenarios, multiple dynasties out to annihilate each other to be sole ruler of China.

The acquisition of the Mandate of Heaven states that there could only be one ruler of all China. And this is best decided in a King of the Hill Deathmatch to make it fucking clear.

Meanwhile major european wars are basically Imperialist Powers trying to be hegemons over others. In the case of the Seven Years War, a lot of the carnage was outside of Europe, especially among the Colonial Powers. After the war everyone just signs nice pieces of papers and kisses and makes up.

Only the Napoleonic, WWI, and WWII could match the Chinese desperation of parties to survive/kill each other off.

necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#30YrW

>The Thirty Years War (1618-48)
>R.J. Rummel: 11.5M total deaths in the war (half democides)
>Norman Davies, Europe, p.568: 8 million
>Richard Dunn, The Age of Religious Wars 1559-1715: After the war, the empire was 7-8 million fewer than before

>Fall of the Ming Dynasty (1618-44)
>Colin McEvedy, Atlas of World Population History (1978): Manchu conquest cost China 25M people, or one sixth of the population, 1600-1650
>Alan McFarlane, The Savage Wars of Peace: England, Japan and the Malthusian Trap (2003): 25M or 17% of the pop.

Oh and to add: unlike Europe and it's plethora of borders, China being one country meant that a lot of regions are dependent on other regions for resources like food. It's what's having a centralized government for to begin with.

So when war happens, said war disrupts all of that, leading to bigass famines.

And the famines lead to mass cannibalism so we have even more deaths.

Battle of Suiyang is a classic
>Yin Ziqi had besieged the city for a long time. The food in the city had run out. The dwellers traded their children to eat and cooked bodies of the dead. Fears were spread and worse situations were expected. At this time, Zhang Xun took his concubine out and killed her in front of his soldiers in order to feed them. He said, "You have been working hard at protecting this city for the country wholeheartedly. Your loyalty is uncompromised despite the long-lasting hunger. Since I can't cut out my own flesh to feed you, how can I keep this woman and just ignore the dangerous situation?" All the soldiers cried, and they did not want to eat. Zhang Xun ordered them to eat the flesh. Afterwards, they caught the women in the city. After the women were run out, they turned to old and young males. 20,000 to 30,000 people were eaten. People always remained loyal.
>When the city fell, only 400 people were left.

Nah he refers to cases of cannibalism where people are forced. You had cases of such as well in the Great Leap Forward famines.

Suiyang is literally people VOLUNTEERING to cannibalize in order to hold a position.

It occupies a romantic (in a Confucian Patriotic Sense) place in Chinese history.

What the actual fuck

Oh yeah I know I just find it weird how China treats cannibalism.

It's a cultural thing
>Cannibalism has occasionally occurred throughout Chinese history both in literal terms and as a literary motif. Historians such as Kuwabara Jitsuzo (December 7, 1870 - May 24, 1931) claim that China has had a particularly rich history of cannibalism (喫人).[1] According to Key Ray Chong, while the Chinese people are not particularly different from other peoples as far as the practice of "survival cannibalism" is concerned, they also have a unique form of cannibalism which he terms "learned cannibalism." Learned cannibalism is "an expression of love and hatred, and a peculiar extension of Confucian doctrine."[2]

that siege was supposed to last for only a few months, but they held out for 2 years only because of the cannibalism and such extreme tenacity. The amount of time the Yan wasted besieging the city robbed them of their momentum and allowed the Tang time to regroup. If it hadn't happened the Tang dynasty probably would have collapsed.

>that scene in romance of the three kingdoms where that dude feeds his wife to Liu Bei
>Liu Bei finds out he ate the dudes wife and sheds tears from how touched he is at his willingness to go to such lengths for a guest

So when the next cull?

Is Chinese civilization the closest that Western civilization has ever come to meeting space aliens?

The Philippines.

A weird trait about china is that they always overcompensate for disasters, it's a cultural thing but the freed up land causes the survivors to go through a baby boom every time, the country could lose the majority of its population and still recover to even greater heights

When they recapture Taiwan

Literally the whitest of Asians, culrurally speaking.

Post-unification, an average Chinese dynasty or government has the shelf life of 250 years.

PRC so far has 60 years down.

But then again this is post-imperial/mandate of heaven China, so who knows, the PRC could go down the way of the Zhou Dynasty (start out as one kind of government, progressively change over time).

>you will never see the entire rise and fall of a Chinese dynasty within your own lifetime
shit sucks man

You forgot to mention Three kingdom era at the end of the han dynasty. They say the deathtoll at that time were about the same as WW2.

>PS:Cao Cao did nothing wrong.

>Also, how the fuck do people deal with millions of their country men dying every so often? Do they just get desensitized to it?
Do you see all those articles hyping up how uncivilized and badly behaved newly rich rural Chinese people are? That's what you get when you have three whole generations in a row growing up knowing nothing but poverty, famine, war, political persecution, and death everywhere. People have to become selfish and chaotic to survive in a dog eat dog society, where good morals offer no survival benefit.

OP was obviously talking about recent events.

It's horrifying yet impressive that one country can consistently kill so many people without sending any of them to foreign soil.
If there's any place on earth that's haunted it's without a doubt somewhere on Chinese soil.

Wrong, Chiang Kai Shek was a wehraboo and tried emulating the NSDAP as much as possible, down to terrorizing the populace and executions without trial

don't forget what happened in Ju motherfucker

>The first years of the Han-Xiongnu War were a disaster for the Chinese. It was not until a second generation of leaders—familiar with the steppe and its peoples—came to prominence that the Han stumbled upon a more successful strategy. Wei Qing and his nephew Huo Qubing are the most famous of these men; their famed victories were built upon a type new military operation that was often called a flying cavalry column. The grand historian describes these campaigns in uncharacteristically vivid terms:

>“The Han strategists plotted together, saying, “Zhao Xin, the marquis of Xi, who is acting as adviser to the Shanyu is convinced that, since the Xiongnu are living North of the desert, the Han forces can never reach them.” They therefore agreed to fatten the horses on grain and send out a force of 100,000 cavalry, along with 140,000 horses to carry baggage and other equipment (this in addition to the horses provided for transporting provisions). They ordered the force to split up into two groups commanded by the general in chief Wei Qing and the general of swift cavalry Huo Qubing. The former was to ride out of Dingxiang and the latter out of Dai; it was agreed that the entire force would cross the desert and attack the Xiongnu.

> ….Wei Qing’s army, having traveled 1,000 li [aprox 310 miles; 644 km] beyond the border, emerged from the desert just at the point where the Shanyu was waiting. Spying the Shanyu’s forces, Wei Qing likewise pitched camp and waited. He ordered the armored wagons to be ranged in a circle about the camp and at the same time sent out 5,000 cavalry to attack the Xiongnu. The Xiongnu dispatched some 10,000 of their own cavalry to meet the attack. Just as the sun was setting, a great wind arose, whirling dust into the faces of them until the two armies could no longer see each other. The Chinese then dispatched more men to swoop out to the left and the right and surround the Shanyu.

>When the Shanyu perceived how numerous the Han soldiers were and perceived that the men and horses were still in strong fighting condition, he realized that he could win no advantage in battle…. And accompanied by several hundred of his finest horsemen, broke through the Han encirclement and fled to the northwest…. All in all Wei Qing killed or captured 10,00 of the enemy, He then proceeded to Zhao Xin’s fort at Mt. Tianyan, where he seized the Xiongnu’s supplies of grain and feasted his men. He and his army remained there only a day, however, and then setting fire to the remaining grain, began the journey home.

>Meanwhile Huo Qubing with his 50,000 cavalry rode more than 1,000 li north from Dai and Youbeiping and attacked the forces of the Wise King of the Left. He was accompanied by a force of carriages and baggage similar to what traveled with Wei Qing’s army, but had no subordinate generals beneath him….When Huo Qubing’s army returned to the capital the emperor issued an edict which read: “The general of swift cavalry Huo Qubing has led forth the trips and personally commanded a force of barbarians captured in previous campaigns, carrying with him only light provisions and crossing the great dessert. Fording the Huozhangqu, he executed the enemy leader Bijuqi and then turned to strike at the enemy general of the left, cutting down his pennants and seizing his war drums. He crossed over Mt. Lihou, forded the Gonglu, captured the Tuntou king, the Han king, and one other, as well as eighty generals, ministers, household administrators, and chief commandments of the enemy… He seized a great multitude of the enemy, taking 70,443 captives while only three tenths of his own men were lost in the campaign.” [2]

>Literally the whitest of Asians, culrurally speaking.
That would be Japan.

No, that would be the Philippines. We're talking culturally here.

Japan doesn't have John Ronald Cortez's who speaks California English as his second language and goes to a Christian church every sunday, and then eats a burger afterwards. Maybe owns a 1911 knockoff.

The Philippines was the longest held territory by any European power in Asia. Of course they'll be acculturated as fuck. Add American influence to boot.

There was a baby boom in the west after ww2. It's a common occurence after a devastating war.

It is normal however in China this has happened often and consistently, often places never really recover(at least in pre industrial times)

>china and rome on the opposites side of the eurasian continent
>they know about each other and want to meet
>parthians keep cockblocking them
>relations never happen

feelsbadman

>Rome never got to learn how the Han destroyed the Xiongnu

wtf i hate the parthian empire now

Man, that would have helped Rome out a lot.

>The logistics machine the Han created to defeat the Xiongnu is one of the marvels of the ancient world [3]. Each of the Han’s campaigns was a feat worthy of Alexander the Great. But Alexander only pushed to India once. The Han launched these campaigns year after year for decades [4]. The sheer expanse of the conflict is staggering; Han armies ranged from Fergana to Manchuria, theaters 3,000 miles apart. Each campaign required the mobilization of tens of thousands of men and double the number of animals. Chang Chun-shu has tallied the numbers:

>"In the many campaigns in the Western regions (Hexi, Qiang, and Xiyu) and the Xiongnu land, the Han sent a total force of over 1.2 million cavalrymen, 800,000 foot soldiers, and 10.5 million men in support and logistic roles. The total area of lad seized in Hexi alone was 426,700 square kilometers. In developing this region the Han spent 100 billion in cash per year, compared to the regular annual government revenue of 12 billion. In the process the Han government moved from the interior over 1 million people to populate and develop the Hexi river. Thus the Han conquest of the land west of the Yellow River was the greatest expansion in Chinese history."
>tfw the Roman Army at its height peaked at only about 450,000 men

I thought you were trolling but it turns out this shit is real. Rome and China were so close and yet so far.
This world is so cruel...maybe in another timeline....

Gee, what if they weren't cockblocked? Imagine how different things would have turned out.

Btw you're from the Horse Archer thread? Where did you get this?

I'm not, I just saw the posts in that thread and decided to copy them here.

But Google says it comes from here

forums.spacebattles.com/threads/a-history-of-the-han-xiongnu-wars.320579/

You make them sound like star crossed lovers.

>[The Tang] terrified the Turks so much they declared the Tang emperor their Khan on top of being Emperor of China.

That's exactly what they are.

Would the Romans have had the capability to raise a professional fighting force of 2 million men if they needed to?

Two major river systems + rice = agriculture easymode = shitloads of people.

Rice cultivation is also very labor intensive, which encourages big families.

>Also, how the fuck do people deal with millions of their country men dying every so often?
By not being a jewish whiner.

The Portuguese held goa for much much longer, among other territories.

The Tang were based.

The Han and Romans fucking loved each other's stuff.

> I can see clothes of silk, if materials that do not hide the body, nor even one's decency, can be called clothes ... Wretched flocks of maids labour so that the adulteress may be visible through her thin dress, so that her husband has no more acquaintance than any outsider or foreigner with his wife's body.

Seneca the Elder c. 3 BCE – 65 CE, Excerpta Controversiae 2.7[137]

Rome didn't have the population to support such a force.

Rome absolutely did have the raw population to support such a force, but it's population wasn't centralized like China's was.

Rome had multiple population bases; Italy itself, Greece, Anatolia, Egypt, Spain, Gaul, and North Africa. Each one of these population centers is too small to support an expedition against the Huns, so you had to move a lot of people between the population centers, not to mention grain and other supplies.

China has just 2 population centers; the North China Plain and the Yangtze Plain, these two population centers were also much closer to each other than Rome's.

Mostly importantly, China didn't have a second front to deal with. Just the Huns alone, or even just Huns and barbarians, would not have done Rome in. The Sassanid Empire was a threat that pulled resources away from dealing with the Huns and the Germans.

How did China and the Persians manage to stay such friends without repeatedly clashing over territory between them like the Romans and Persians clashing over Armenia?

There's the Himalaya mountains and Taklamakan desert between them? China can't project force into Persia and vice versa, so all they can do is trade stuff. There were minor skirmished recorded thou, nothing serious came of them.

>Rome undergoes the Third Century Crisis, collapsing into three pieces and is reunited by Aurelian
>almost at the same time the Han Dynasty undergoes the Three Kingdoms Period and is reunited by the Sima clan as the Jin Dynasty

>Rome in the fourth and fifth centuries destabilizes, declines, and is invaded by barbarians in the West which causes the fall of the Western empire into barbarian kingdoms leaving the Eastern Roman Empire in the east centered on Constantinople which becomes the Byzantine Empire
>almost at the same time the Jin Dynasty in the fourth and fifth centuries destabilizes, declines, and is invaded by barbarians in the north which causes the fall of the north into the barbarian Sixteen Kingdoms leaving Eastern Jin in the South centered on Nanjing which becomes the Southern Dynasties

They were pretty much perfect for each other