Socialism doesn't wo-

This isn't /pol/ you fucking moron. Leave now and never come back

Nice bait. I wish you would live in Cuba with all my energy.

>have any of you fuckers actually been to cuba

I have actually been, but I am not the OP.
It was alright, like a time travel. Old cars, old buildings, no IT stuff.
It may be poorer, but its not depressing, its a nice place to visit.

yeah, i liked it
i went the year before they allowed americans in, so it was pretty untouched by the eternal burger tourist
reminded me of my home country tb-h

>t. York U student
you've never been to Cuba have you, P.S it's a shithole where everyone and there mother would escape if given the opportunity

It is not a meme.They had better nutrition,higher literacy rate,bigger consumption of meat,equal wages,more radios and TVs per capita,more doctors per capita and a long list of things.Without Casto Cuba would be a huge Miami leftypol.As much as it might hurt you

I've been to cuba actually. Is a pretty comfy place don't know why is seen as some shit hole.

No it isn't you retard, poverty is everywhere and all the locals want to talk about how to emigrate to your country

ITT: Gusanos gone wild

Pal you can go to a 10/10 girl and offer her 20 dollars and she will be your personal bitch for all the time that you stay there.

> your economy depends on sugar just like 200 years ago and tourism just like 60 years ago
> socialism worked
pottery

>Socialism is gre-

Is that a fucking Venezuelan Stickman

>Socialism can wor-

>great Castro chimp out

The ironic thing about this phrase is that Castro himself often called Batista (who was half black and a quarter Chinese) a "chimp" or "dirty nigger".

It's a Caribbean island what do you expect?

>economy climbs during USSR times
>declines after collapse of USSR
>starts climbing again on its own
m8 i know marxism is retarded but that graph doesn't really illustrate your point very well

Absolute bullshit.

It shows Cuba going from about average to stagnating and remaining piss poor by world standards while the rest of the world skyrockets. Basically showing that socialism didn't help it, normal advancement did, and all socialism did was hinder it. There's a shortfall in growth of about 250% at the end of the graph.

how can you compare one small nation to the entire world average?

why not compare the average GDP of El Salvador to the GDP of East Asia

it's still roughly the same growth rate tb-h
shit graph get a better one

there are butthurt people in this world. And then the Gusanos in another level.

You just can't read the graph. It clearly shows that Cuba was within ~80% of the global average before they became Gommunists and now they are less than half the average.

Socialism can work on other's people's money. At first, Cuba was sustained by the Soviet Union, that was the golden age when they build the secret police apparatus and intelligence service that still sustains them, then the Soviet Union collapsed and they spent 10 years starving until their puppets in the Latin American left (Hugo Chávez, Lula, Evo Morales etc) started gaining power, ever since them Cuba is sustained by Venezuelan and Brazilian money. Venezuela, specially, is basically a narcostate run by Cuban intelligence service at this point. With its collapse, the Cuban regime was already trying to get in good graces with the U.S. so it won't starve again as during the 1990s.

Also, the social "achievements" of Cuba are another farse, Cuba was always above the average for a Latin American country, what the Castros did was actually close that gap, since the island stagnated while the rest of the continent improved.

That is also besides the point where you can trust communist statistics.

do you even know what GDP per capita is.

>having comercial relations wiht X country is being sustained by said X country.

Kill yourself.

I am a brainlet, when I say that communism/socialism suck because of numerous countries, and my friends retort "what about the nordic countries" what should I say

>Socialism can work on other's people's money. At first, Cuba was sustained by the Soviet Union

This desu. People like to credit the USA and EU's donations for the success of former Communist countries like Poland, but they've got nothing on the USSR's subsidies for its satellites. When the USSR collapsed 1/3 of the Cuban economy disappeared overnight. A major part of this is because a full 20% of Cuban GDP at this point consisted of nothing but stipends from the USSR. It was a tower of duct tape. The exact same thing (albeit to an even worse extent, complete with famines) happened in North Korea.

Here's a contemporary report on it:
nytimes.com/1988/03/16/world/soviet-said-to-reduce-support-for-cuban-economy.html

> Soviet subsidies of Cuba, mainly through Moscow's supply of low-cost oil and its purchase of Cuban sugar at inflated prices, have been estimated at $4 billion to $5 billion a year.

Cuba's GDP in 1988 was only about $30 billion in 1988, in 2005 dollars.

ivanstat.com/gdp/cu.html

Adjusted to 1988 dollars that's only about 18.5 billion. The country was never sustainable and got even worse when they ran out of other people's money to spend.

Those are not socialist countries. For usa standards maybe. For EVROPA standards it's pretty normal

Giving oil for free (Venezuela) and having construction companies building things for free (Brazil) is more than merley "commercial relations".

The Nordic countries are not Communist. They have lower corporate taxes and higher economic freedom ratings than the USA, have free market economies, 100% embrace freedom of trade and movement (being one of the main backers of the world's largest trade union), and get mad as hell whenever someone calls them commies. For example:

investors.com/politics/commentary/denmark-tells-bernie-sanders-to-stop-calling-it-socialist/

>Socialism can work on other's people's money
Global economy works on cooperation between countries

There is another name for setting up police states in foreign countries through your intelligence service in order to loot them, as Cuba has done in Venezuela.

It's not "cooperation", it's imperialism.

And Cuba, for all the humanitarian image, has practiced plenty of it. During the Cold War it financed armed movements in Latin America and intervened militarily in support of communist dictators in Africa. It was easily forgotten, when Fidel died, the support he gave to Mengistu Haile Mariam, the communist dictator of Ethiopia who murdered 500.000 people and starved 2.000.000.

>for free
it wasnt free.

What is free is the help that cubans always send everytime a natural disaster hits.

Some people dont like it tho.

nbcnews.com/id/9311876/ns/us_news-katrina_the_long_road_back/t/katrina-aid-cuba-no-thanks-says-us/#.WR4q8EC1thE

...

It was extremely cheap, in any case.

Also, Cuban doctors working abroad are basically slaves, Brazil imported tens of thousands of them, they are not paid, the money goes directly to the Cuban government, and their families are held hostage in the island so they don't even think about defecting (and if they still want to flee, Brazil enacted a law prohiting granting asylum to Cuban doctors who defected).

> they are not paid

Sure, Cuban gov just give them water and bread, and make them work for 16 hours/day. like Apple making phones in china, but with doctors.

>Socialism can work on other's people's money
Capitalism can work until you run out of other people's labour

>muh consumption culture

Socialists know better than to consume things.
Children of the most successful nations on earth like Cuba and Haiti have more visible ribs per capita than smelly American piglets.

I'm impressed Cuba has lasted this long under the circumstances, but the number of emigrants/escapees that keep making their way to Florida doesn't seem to indicate it's especially desirable to live there.

very true. except you don't ever.

we'll have robots before the first world can stop using/exploiting (perspective) the developing world for labor

because the benefits that cubans get if they arrive to USA are huge.

Is not like mexican or other emmigrants that have to work as ilegals.

I think a bigger indicative is the lack of immigrants into Cuba.

Not even Haitians want to live there. They migrate to Brazil or Chile, but never to Cuba

That doesn't explain why the majority of them shit-talk Cuba like there's no tomorrow.

>capitalism can only use the resources available
>capitalism cannot break the laws of physics
explain why this is bad

Neither they stop at puerto rico, costa rica, panama, colombia, etc.

Cuba was parasite on the Soviets. When the CCCP collapsed is when the boat people started getting worse. then Cuba somehow made Venezuela a client state and sucked them dry.

>somehow

Cuba spent the money it parasited from the Soviets wisely. Their intelligence services is unironically of the best of the world. Hugo Chávez was already a Cuban agent when he was just an army colonel. Lula was a Cuban agent when he was just a labour union leader.

Every leftist Latin American country is a Cuban colony (except maybe Argentina, the Kirchners are independent).

Funny...I don't see the entire world trying to flee to Cuba for its successful Socialism, for some reason everyone tends to flee to either economically free countries or Welfare State Capitalist countries for the free gibs...hmm....really activates the almonds doesn't it?

Shilling and wanting to be seen as not-commies, since there's such a big stigma in America against them.

Havanna is probably the most beautiful city I have visited

A bit authoritarian innit'? But with yankee doodles actively subverting the country its expectable

It's funny because this trend has been going on since the 1920s, surely Marxists have to be the most deluded group of people in human history politically?

It's truly astounding how many excuses modern marxists make about the failures of actual socialists trying to implement socialism that were first lauded by international marxists.

>stigma
lol, no one cares about cuba in america except cuban refugees and conservative politicians pandering to them.

i care about cuba and i live in america n im not cuban neither a conservative politician

wow, an exception to the rule

There is no greater myth than the myth that there is a stigma in the U.S. against commies.

Many American intellectuals and artists are commies, I would even say "most" in certain areas, like humanities in universities and in the folk music scene.

Did anyone watch Fate of the Furious? How about that hilariously pro-cuban intro

>mfw the bitch comes out of nowhere with a tank of "Cuban Noz", which is just a tank of laughing gas she stole from some poor Cuban dentist

any stories to share?

The drag race was the only good part of the movie.
FnF has been crazy spic pandering since the very first one though, so its not unexpected.

If cuba is doing relativly well now, how good would it be now if castro hadn't chimped out and cuba didn't side with the USSR?

But they still did develop their country well enough to ensure no one would chimp out and overthrow their government. That is something Batuista wasn't able to do.

Why won't people give the devil it's due? Venezuela failed because it did not diversify its income, but it eradicated poverty. Cuba has great healthcare and stopped famines that happened under other governments, but now it lags behind other nations. Soviet Union grew dramatically and became world's greatest military power, but couldn't keep up with consumer goods.

I feel like everyone on Veeky Forums is ideologized bastard thinking in black and white, either lefty bernie-lover or right-wing US' propaganda gobbler.

What they did to ensure they wouldn't be overthrow was set up a police state with the help of the Stasi, with even neighborhood associations serving as organs of the regime.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committees_for_the_Defense_of_the_Revolution

It's weird. Chavez was the darling of the far left a few years ago, with Corbyn and Sanders among others calling him a great leader and saying the center-left, centrists, and right could learn from him. Now they're mysteriously silent.

Why, it might've been half the utopia the Dominican republic is!

*revisionism intensifies*

>tiny island country isn't self sufficient and benefits from foreign money
STOP THE PRESSES GUISE

>setting up police states in foreign countries
You mean like how the USA did on a massive scale during the Cold War?

It's not exactly a cakewalk to get into Cuba.

Epic meme. Are you even old enough to remember the Cold War? A bunch of people I know who lived through the height of it have said repeatedly that "better dead than red" was unironically spouted everywhere, and people lost their jobs because they were suspected of having communist sympathies.

Cuba was always better than other Caribbean countries. Without communism it would probably be as rich as Chile and Uruguay.

The only problem would be the violence, Cuba lies in the middle of a major drug route, without the commies to maintain monopoly over force, it would be a breeding ground for drug cartels and organized crime gangs. This is the only positive aspect of the communist regime.

Exactly. If you consider it bad when the U.S. does it, why do you support when Cuba does?

Its impossible to immigrate to cuba unless you get married with a Cuban and their socialist economy make illegal immigration impossible.

if America were fully capitalist drugs wouldn't be illegal and there would be no "crime" gangs

I don't. I just think it's a double standard how people paint Cuba and the USSR as imperialist menaces for their foreign policy while the US gets a free pass despite installing and backing monsters like Karimov or Duvalier.

The US doesn't get a free pass, what are you on about

This won't convince any of you.

But as a Cuban dude, I have personally seen many of my aunts and uncles die of dysentery. So some posts in this thread are, at best, amusing.

Also I have used all these "great" social services before I emigrated ,and; I don't think you can take what the Cuban government says without a shit load of salt.

>muh no true capitalism

>shittiest country in Hispanic America.

Wew lad you are delusional if you think it worked in Cuba

>Possibly the least shit hispanic country despite being the mortal enemy of the most powerful nation in the world

The workers do not own the means of production, so they aren't socialist. They're capitalist countries with a high tax rate.

Nope mate, I'm Hispanic, they live in the utter shit. Our countries are crap, but they with their perpetual "muh che Guevara" "muh patria Grande" are a cancer, they already ruined Venezuela.

Yeah its not as if the term socialist has changed in its meaning and applications over the last 150 years

That certainly doesn't make them socialist or communist.

When people say socialist they dont mean the 20th century idea of complete worker ownership of the means of production,it usually refers to more nationalised public goods, higher taxes and government economic intervention to curtail capitalisms excesses aswell as a multitude of other things such as peaceful foreign policy, feminism, equiality etc.
See Jeremy Corbyn as a good example of what a modern socialist platform would look like

You specifically mentioned communism and you can also infer Marxist socialism. What you're describing is just capitalism or at best Prussian Socialism.

>showing a picture would really show him xD

You do realize the Dominican Republic with far less resources survives without 20% of its GDP being donations, right?

>Cuba was 90% white
>Cuba recieved a steedy supply of white inmigrants. Mainly Spaniards and Italians
>It had the same GDP per capita as Italy
> The great Castro chimp out happens
>Cuba becomes a nigger and mulatto shithole
>Most whites emigrate to Miami a tiny coty in south Florida
>Fast forward 40 years
>Miami is the fastest growing city in the US and the cultural center of all Latin America.
>Cuba's GDP per capita is 20$ a month
Was this part of Castro's master plane?