Is blaming society for your crimes ever a legitimate excuse? I can see blaming ones family...

What's the point of this shitty thread?

Individuals are a product of their environment (Society) though, for instance a Society could prioritse paying for good public school education, leading to someone from a disadvantaged background going to college instead of dropping out of school and then going towards a life of crime. Another hypothetical is that society takes a very harsh view of drugs, which leads to someones father being incarcerated. That child no longer has a father figure or stable income in the household and is pushed towards crime because of this.

environment is not quite the same as society. Perhaps in a macro, impersonal level it is but at the micro, relevant level environment is your home followed by your community.

To shit on snowflakes scum

I don't know it seems to me that your environment is a product of your society. Society acts on the micro level aswell, your home and community are part of the greater society you experience, and if we are left arguing over whether you can blame your environment or society, when we have accepted that your society influences your environment, isn't it pretty much just semantics at that point?

The entire catalog is shit.

What the fuck happened here? Summer?

The point is whether or not society influences your environment to the point where blaming it for personal vices or wrongdoings is a legitimate excuse.

>Irish
>white

>italian
>white

That's the point you retard. For a long time most people didn't consider them white.

They still arent

Yeah. You can blame society. There weren't storm troopers to shoot criminals on the spot.

I was a product of my family and the school I attended. "Society", as is often cited by nigs, had nothing to do with it.

I agree with user. There aren't really individuals in society everyone is merely a part of a particular group. That is why when one member of a group commits a transgression is is morally acceptable to levy punishment against any and all members of that group, for example, some white people in the past committed transgressions against black people, therefore it is take property of or institute policies against the current day white people, to benefit current day black people. Similarly when a crime is committed by a black person to day against a white person it is ok to punish some or all black people today, or in the future for that crime.

t. unenlightened

Daily reminder that unless your ancestry comes from inside the red circle your ancestors weren't beneficiary of any "White privilege" weren't involved in any "Oppression" of non-Whites and you shouldn't concern yourself with any concepts of "White guilt."

Icelanders hardly did anything at any point in their history that can be considered bad or destructive. They outlawed Basques once, but that's about it.

But what if only parts of my ancestors are from inside the red line?

The point is that they were considered "white" in the American context and didn't suffer from discrimination. Of course icelanders are blameless of wrongdoing.

Ah I see.

Could probably capture the top half of France in there.

>weren't involved in any "Oppression" of non-Whites

Well, slavery, not really. But a lot of people of e.g. Irish descent in the South were heavily involved in Jim Crow.

It's the Italians and Poles who unironically dindu nuffin.

Back to /pol/. Article mentioned nothing about 'blaiming society.' OP's shitty bait attempt. Low-energy stuff

t. Tony Kowalski

I'd just move that circle to just England + the Netherlands, maybe just England.

I've done some readings on the history of Chicago (so I would imagine this is the same case in most the rest of the country), there had been a significant amount of German-American discrimination in the 1800s and early 1900s. Germans were generally more tolerated and accepted than the Irish, Italians, and Poles, but they were definitely not equal to anglos.

Hell, a bug reason why there's so little of a German-American identity movement (compared to the Italians and Irish) is because of the federal government's suppression of German language newspapers and German cultural traditions during world wars 1 and 2.

First and second generation German-Americans were genuinely awful. Like every /pol/ stereotype about Syrian refugees come to life. Refusal to assimilate, demographic takeover, favoring their home country over the USA, muh culture (which is so great I left my country), opposing every progressive cause and trying to regress the USA to their shit-tier, etc. Also refusal to assimilate, there were still entire cities where the majority of the population was native German speakers in the early 20th century.

The pic has nothing to do with the question. It's just appropriate for crime.

> leaves out Portugal

I'll take "The Slave-Tradingest Motherfuckers In History" for five hundred, Alex.

>slavery is unique to Portugal
They aren't worst than Arabs or West African if slave trading is your criteria.

They were still pretty fucking terrible.

How so? Plus the red circle is American definition of "White" for most of americas history. It has nothing to do with "hurrr Durrr you did bad things"

If you need the Portuguese slave trade explained to you, then you don't belong here.

I don't need it explained. As I said here I don't see how Portuguese are worse than west Africans or arabs when it comes to slavery.

The white man had absolutely no right to make chicken so delicious

Response to crimes should be stepwise.
(1) Punish the crime.
(2) Interpret the perpetration of the crime as a failure of society.
(3) Diagnose the failure.
(4) Propose remedies.
(5) Enact the remedies.

What you are saying isn't new though. The only thing is ideology puts a stop in actually implementing it. Tough on Crime spiels get votes, not more light installations in dark areas to ward off crime (you know ghettos have crap lighting), after school stuff to prevent kids form mething up.

Exactly.

>Society could prioritse paying for good public school education,

You stupid fuck. Public education is precisely how these fucking apes "learn the ropes". You can fail classes all the way through and still graduate with a diploma. Public schools are babysitting programs, not educational programs.

> leading to someone from a disadvantaged background going to college instead of dropping out of school and then going towards a life of crime.

Public schools are where they learn how to be savage apes you dumb fuck.

> Another hypothetical is that society takes a very harsh view of drugs, which leads to someones father being incarcerated

Let's take a real instead of a hypothetical. Single moms use children as means to get increased levels of welfare because our system is that fucked.

Public schools, as they are, should be abolished and replaced with tracks for vocational training and tracks for college.

> not more light installations in dark areas to ward off crime (you know ghettos have crap lighting),

Another stupid fuck thing. Lights cause the level of crime to rise because even fucking criminals need to be able to see.

If they were completely dark, both sides would be at a disadvantage. Instead of holding ambushes within the shadows but close to areas illuminated by light.

> after school stuff to prevent kids form mething up.

You astonish me with your vast stupidity. As if the majority of black families are actually supportive of extracirrcular activities.

CONT.

With all this said, I think sex segregated education would be a great improvement, especially for the black community.

They'd learn how to cooperate instead of being fucking baboons and trying to impress chicks with dark triad chimp out behavior.

It doesn't justify it but it does explain actions.

Say I was Irish under the UK. If they were repressing people for being Catholic, making sure they held no political power in their own homeland I'd feel less inclined to be a good UK citizen and instead lob bombs at British establishments.

You're a fucking idiot. They don't think about politics when committing crimes. Politics are an after-the-fact excuse for a complete lack of impulse control.

They're also fed counterproductive strategies (blame whitey) instead of advancing their own community.

M8, I don't know enough about black ghetto culture to explain why they live in fucking slums.

The question was if society can be blamed for crimes. The UK was a good example of people turning to terrorism due to how badly society treated them.

Considering the USA's history I wouldn't be surprised if how blacks are treated by society indirectly or directly effects why so many blacks are ghetto trash.

>But that's racist

Instead of addressing very real racial issues with impulse control (black toddlers fail the delayed gratification test FAR sooner than other races), you give them excuses.

Instead of figuring out strategies that work with kids that have impulse control lower than the norm.

>Considering the USA's history I wouldn't be surprised if how blacks are treated by society indirectly or directly effects why so many blacks are ghetto trash.

They're ghetto trash because welfare is poison to black communities and replaces a human dad with a bureaucratic dad.

>but single moms need help

Children raised by single moms have drastically inferior life outcomes to children raised by single dads.

>she was adult in my mind
>it's all society fault for not allowing me have sex with 11yo
Yep it's all society fault.

Germs were mostly hated in New York and Chicago after ever world war they were pretty much seen as equal as angs

No. And I despise people who use the excuse "oh I've never had a dad to teach me and show me the best way go live!"

i believed both that she was intelligent enough to decide for herself and that i was also certain that i wasn't harming her

i believe that society is at fault for refusing to understand the nature of childhood sexuality and instead appealing to fears of malicious boogeymen

It's okay, you wuz kangz once before and you'll be kangz again just believe in urself n god 100% 100%

And I believer right to breath shouldn't be a given right and blame society for refusing to let me tax people for breathing my air. You know what both out believes have in common?

...

>Irish
>Italian

>white

Choose one.

So what? They didn't consider the blacks white either.

>tfw welsh and I know for a fact you can't tell I'm not white
feelsgoodman you can't even discriminate against me in 2017

Funny story user, african blacks frequently used torture as way to stop criminal assholes in their kingdoms.

>KFC
>restaurant
J U S T

so wait
if blacks deserve compensation for not being white and being oppressed
and italians and irish people aren't white
does that mean I get freeshit for being Irish and oppressed?

>Norway

lmao, poor as fuck fish fuckers who ended up finding black gold. They truly were the beneficiaries of Africa's wealth

In USA yes, other countries depends

And now lynching those of Irish or Italian descent is not a widespread phenomena, compared to modern black politicians getting lynching threats for disagreeing with the current direction of political affairs.

It's almost like there's a movement for PoC not wanting to be considered second-class citizens and scrutinized like a completely different species anymore. Just like Irish and Italians and probably every other race in history has been at one point, most of which are no longer subject to being perceived as such.

No. If you shot someone trying to lynch your brother or rape your mother, sure. If you fucking shot up a fast food restaurant with zero regards for the innocent people inside, you should be lined against a wall and shot to death.

They need to be held responsible for their actions.

If your society doesn't provide adequate healthcare or relatively safe public housing then yes. But it's usually the parents.

Any of you plebs read "Native Son"?

They were considered lower tierw hites.

>compared to modern black politicians getting lynching threats for disagreeing with the current direction of political affairs.

Getting lynching threats and getting lynched are two different things, and blacks hardly have a monopoly on receiving death threats. You can get death threats for saying something on fucking twitter.

They were lynched,segregated, discrimated against and abused. Their normalization into so called "White" category ironically happened during the 60s-70s. The same time desegregation and civil rights took place.

The post was about who was considered "white" in the waspy American sense. Not about having colonies in Africa,

Actually their status moved up over time. mid 20th century they got cemented into white status.

Post WWI immigration bills were incredibly discriminatory towards non-WASPs of any stripe.

The last time a black was lynched was 40 years ago.

Hell yeah.
Besides crimes of passion, crime is usually an attempt to help yourself when society has failied you.
The irony though is that crime is usually a fundamental part of the society which failed you in the first place (stealing from the market helps legitimize the market)

blame as something that absolves ones own self is a pretty baseless idea

>crime is usually an attempt to help yourself when society has failied you.

Usually? Is that why black men rape white women at a far higher ratio than white men?

Is that why they but fucking sneakers as a status symbol?

Is that why they listen to retarded music?

Is that why they develop schizophrenia at 2-3x the level of other races.

>(stealing from the market helps legitimize the market)

what retarded shit are you spouting? Stealing from the market helps legitimize the cost of security.

I feel like you took this from a "only people from here are white" thread on /pol/, and equate this notion of whiteness with slavery. Is this what happens when you supplant a tenuous 8th grade understanding of world history with memes?

Unless it's like "stealing water because all the pipes give me lead poisoning" like Flint-tier government negligence or something, probably not.
Can't really justify shit like pic related, sometimes people like to do stupid shit and even inside that, they don't wanna take responsibility for it either

t. American who believes in the US """""""justice""""""" system.
Literally highest rate of incarceration on the planet
>Inb4 only because chinks shoot there niggers
I'm pretty sure the entire study of criminology shows that killing and treating inmates awfully is terrible and causes a spiral of re offences. In the UK if you go to a prison run by a private company like G4s rather than the state you are more likely to kill yourself and less likely to be a productive member of society once you get out because they literally beat and abuse you for bants.

Then you only pay a certain percentage of reparations.

Also any financial reparations 'owed' to blacks has been more than compensated through welfare, not to mention the cost of the prisons, police, and the overall amount of crime caused by that community.

/spbp

This... However, society should pay attention to it. When your society is producing more criminals than others, one does need to take a moment of introspection to figure out why.

Yes, you still gotta penalize and/or rehab the criminals, but when those prisons start filling up, it is evidence of an underlying systemic problem.

>inb4 kill all the niggers

The inky person you can blame is yourself regardless of what you do, this actions went from your subconscious to your conscious and into action. You alone are responsible.

Only the mentally insane are excused from this, and they should be locked up for the betterment of themselves and society

One could make the argument that the destruction caused by the black community today could've been avoided had they received reparations early on and opportunities to assimilate into white society. They were continuously held back well into the 20th century, after all.

One could also make a far more convincing argument that welfare enabled single moms to carry the kids of gang members, even if they were sent to prison for years.

and in favoring that fucked up cycle of dysgenics, fucked the black family in a way that slavery wasn't able to utterly fuck it.

HUD and DHA/Welfare offices have done more to undermine the black community than the Klu Klux Klan was ever able to achieve.

And are you going to skim every ethnicity in the world and demand that they do a full accounting of ten thousand years of civilized conflict and try to calculate all the reparations each group owes another?

No of course not, that's fucking insanity. So why are you advocating insanity in this country? Why not go after the (((owners))) of slave ships or the bantu tribes which sold rival tribes to traders?

When I said "early on," I was referring to after the Civil War in America, the whole "40 acres and a mule" thing. By waiting until the 60s, there was ample time for numerous factors to pile up into the mess we now know as the "black community."

But welfare accelerated the disintegration beyond the point of no repair.

I was homeless and went to the welfare office. Yadda yadda ugly people yadda yadda. But one of the disturbing conversations, that I paid attention to, was about number of children and welfare.

One black chick to another: "Get another baby, they pay you more!".

Children being used the obtain "gimme dats" from bureaucratic daddy.

If welfare didn't exist, selective pressure would've forced women to choose more responsible men. Instead they can get knocked up and be assured that the government will supply them for the next 18 years at least.

CONT.

Another curious thing is that Kellogg's war against hookworm in the South was successful around the 1880s-1890s (IIRC)

White southerners had a reputation for being a bit slow and lazy. Because they were infested with hookworms that slaves brought over, and were immune to. Free black man were able to outproduce white farmers as long as white farmers were afflicted with hookworm.

After Kellogg's campaign, black farmers didn't have an "edge" over white farmers.

I'm certainly not arguing against you on the negative effects of welfare, but there is a reason as to why so many black people are poor in the first place. Nowadays it's because of how comfortable they've gotten with welfare, but the root of it all is poverty that resulted from Jim Crow and the like. Giving reparations to the black community now isn't going to do much given how bad it's gotten, but I still stand by my point that if they were given equal opportunities and reparations after they were emancipated from slavery, things would've turned out a lot different.
Your anecdote actually reminded me of this girl I knew who had a pretty big family, and once she started doing tax returns her mother advised her to put her sister on there to get more money, and she actually bragged about it for some reason. It's not as nearly as bad as yours but I find it interesting nonetheless

CONT.

Nvm, it was a Rockefeller in the early 1900s who really started the road to educating southerners about it. Once shoes became an item that the lower classes could buy, the chance of hookworm infection dropped drastically.

pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/nature/how-a-worm-gave-the-south-a-bad-name/

Finagling taxes at least implies you're working and producing something of value. desu, the IRS won't go after errors in low-income taxes as opposed to salivating at the thought of fucking a wealthy dude who didn't cross his Ps and Qs.

What I saw was nihilism. No aspiration to even see the beach. In one of the shelters, a group of 8 black dudes from south central were shooting the shit and the subject of the beach came up. These men probably ranged from mid 20s to a guy who looked at the upper range of middle age. Not a single one of them ever saw the beach. A bus ride would've been all it took.

Not to sound so dramatic but their world was a vast wasteland ruled by bureaucratic monsters. Shit-lib compassion had ruined their world. Their aspirations were ugly petty things, yadda yadda.

Have you ever played Shadowrun: Hong Kong? That pervasive feeling of helplessness seemed to be shared and common.

>what did you do

I said fuck Los Angeles and the nihilistic ugliness of shitlibbery and moved to NorCal. Much happier. Even if my savings were wiped out and I became homeless again, it'd be paradise compared to LA.

>NorCal
What a coincidence, I live up here too. Central Valley, to be exact, though I was born and raised in the Bay Area for the most part. I'm glad that you're happier, user.
The whole beach thing could be due to the fact that most black people can't swim. But anyway, at this point in time, can anything be done to change all this, to change these attitudes? The past is in the past and along with it the chances to prevent this all from happening, and the state of liberalism right now is going to continue to enable these behaviors, possibly even exacerbate them.

>People actually believe this.

The opposite, really. These men would be eating out cows or much more likely never born if whites didn't intervene on their ancestors rampant retardation. Slavery was the best thing to happen to the people of the Horn of Africa, by far.