Why latin language became Italian but greek stayed being greek?

why latin language became Italian but greek stayed being greek?

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Because Rome was overrun by barbarians(Germanics) and they mixed Latin with germanic languages.

While Greece has always been Greek.

This sorta reads like a shitpost but the answer is simple so I'll reply anyway: Greek changed just as much as Latin did. Latin was spread over a wider area, so its various dialects developed in relative isolation from each other, which is why we call them different languages today. Modern Greek is as different from Attic Greek as Italian is from Latin - moreso, actually.

(It's not quite true that Greek wasn't spread over as wide an area as Latin - it was very widespread for a long time thanks to the various Hellenic empires. It's more that Latin REMAINED the lingua franca in Italy, Iberia, Gaul etc, whereas Greek was replaced by other languages in North Africa and Asia etc.)

Greece is a lot smaller than Italy, they also placed a lot more value in their own culture than the romans did.

The Romans were ok with letting barbarians speak whatever language they wanted and do whatever they wanted with Latin, the Greeks wouldn't ever consider you worthy of being a citizen in their civilization if you couldn't speak proper Greek and act like a proper Greek.

Then there's the whole thing about how there was never a single latin, and how vulgar latin was always more common, and how the Roman aristocracy didn't even spoke latin at some point.

And then in the modern era the turks took Greece for a bit, so when Greece gained independence they kind of forced the ancient Greek language back into relevance.

That is not truth, modern Greek is not different enough from classical Greek to be considered a separate language, like Italian is to Latin.

Ancient Greek is not modern Greek

prove it

Nope. You're wrong, dude. First, there's no language called "ancient Greek," that's an umbrella term for several languages - even Attic Greek spans several centuries and dialects. Not only are modern Greek and Attic Greek not mutually intelligible, Attic Greek isn't even fully mutually intelligible with Koine Greek.

To the extent that modern Greeks are able to understand ancient texts, it's largely due to the fact that they often study the archaic forms of their language as a mandatory school subject and modern Greek (as well as other languages) are STILL borrowing vocabulary from the classical period.

>how does the inturwebs work?
Retard

>Greece is a lot smaller than Italy, they also placed a lot more value in their own culture than the romans did.
Perfect answer.

>Became Italian
It became Vulgar Latin then Romance then Italian/French/Romanian/Spanish/Portuguese

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
Greek has never stopped being spoken in that area after the Romans conquered Greece and other Greek areas because they considered Greeks to be their equals, which is why they didn't impose Latin on them like they did with the barbarian western Europeans. It's also why Heraclius changed the official language to Greek and remained the main apoken language for centuries in the ERE. And even after the Turks conquered Greece it didn't just disappear overnight because of the freedom of religion which meant that Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbians kept their identities alive during thw Ottoman occupation.

Ancient Greek =/= Modern Greek, dumbass.

Hell Ancient Greek changed into Hellenistic-Period/Roman Period Koine Greek.

Very rich literal tradition that kept the language from evolving and changing too much.

Not an argument I can read a text in Attic Greek written 2500 years ago and understand 90% without any training or practice

>Romans conquered Greece and other Greek areas because they considered Greeks to be their equals

Nope.

That's literally not what he said. Read again, slower

Latin evolved into the Romance languages because Rome absorbed cultures like Gauls and Germanics, and then broke down into regional parts in the Dark Ages.

Greek stayed the same because it was calcified into the Byzantine Empire.

Dude Ottomans lmao.

Read the post again, you're strawmanning way too hard or have 0 reading comprehension

We are talking about Italy/rome not the whole empire.

And I can read Latin, Italian, and Spanish as a Romanian and understand most of it. What's your fucking point?

Latins all tend to understand each, same with Nordics and Slavs. DOES THAT MEAN THEY ALL SPEAK ONE LANGUAGE, THOUGH?

The Ottoman Turks have rarely intermarried with subjugated peoples, and if they have, then the offspring would be taken to Anatolia to be raised as a Turk, while being absolutely oblivious to its other heritage. And before you delve in the matter of rape, just keep in mind they were committed by local converts, and the pregnancies that came from rape were terminated prematurely, or if they ended fully, the children were left in the woods to the spirits there (it's how many legends and myths appeared in some places, of how the demons of the forest thirst for Turkish(Muslim, since Turk was synonymous to Muslims) blood.

It didn't it also became Koine and Demotic.
Also some dialects died out and some including remaining ones can be unintelligible with the standard variety.

No you can't.
At best only languages within the same branch are intelligible and becomes increasingly difficult with increasingly distant branches.

Greek has also changed over the centuries, to the point where it's for the most part mutually intelligible, but still a separate language, like with Latin and Italian.

>No you can't.

What? Are you literally retarded? Ask any Italian or Spanish guy if they understand one another. Of course they do, you literal mong.

>Ask any Italian or Spanish guy if they understand one another.

I'm imagining a lot of arm flailing while they are talking because lol those wacky euros.

Modern Greek got simplified a lot since Attic greek. While the vocabulary and grammar is the same, it's a lot different in intonation, and even accent.

A better comparison would be that Koine Greek is more like Olde Chaucer English.

Still, it is the Greek language. what happened with latin is that vulgar latin was replaced with national languages. Latin stopped being spoken as a first language, while Greek saw continuous use throughout its history. It may have evolved, as it's natural, but it's still the same language.
Nope. Maybe the case with the Attic dialect, but koine Greek is very much intelligible to a native modern speaker.

This is completely wrong

>Ask any Italian or Spanish guy
confirmed for not being a romance speaker.
t. romance speaker

I can understand Spanish, Portuguese and Italian in written form without problems and I'm French.

How is it any different from the evolution of vulgar Latin into various romance languages.
Also the Doric and Aeolic varieties died out with a shorter lifespan and Greek was spoken over a much smaller area.

It's because the Romance languages have too much of an external influence, and have changed so much from vulgar Latin, to the point were they resemble Latin only slightly. Greek meanwhile changed mainly because of internal processes. Greek etymology is very well mapped and very cohesive, throughout the history of the language.

How bout you translate this mister polyglot:

Su Cadelanu bessit lìngua ufitziali de Sardìnnia in su 1479, centu annus agoa chi is cadelanus fiant intraus cun is sordaus in s’ìsula. Chena duda peruna su cadelanu est sa lìngua stràngia chi prus est intrada in su sardu, oindi’ puru meda fueddus chi imperaus tenint arrexini cadelana, est a nai ferreri, pichepedreri, sabateri, mìgia, buciaca, cadira, bratzolu e aici nendi. Custa lìngua fiat aici forti in sa sotziedadi puru chi esistiat unu dìciu in Casteddu “no connoscit su cadelanu” chi ddu imperànt po nai de unu fulanu chi fiat innioranti meda.

Câ sò pusizzioni giogràfica, la timpiratura piacenti, la campagna abbunata e lu tirrenu vurcànicu allatu a l' Etna assai riccu e pruduttivu, la sò propia storia è una dî verri e dî ribbellamenti.

I è stàde le dò vanguàrdie de fancc a ambià là la baröfa. 700 fancc de la Lega Lombarda che vignìa 'n sà de Legnà i s'è troàcc denàcc a 300 fancc del Imperadùr. Chèsta prìma schermàia l'è düràda 'na vintìna de minücc enfìna a che gh'è riàt l'imperadùr stès con töt el gròs del sò ezèrcito furmàt suratöt de cavaliér. La càrica dei imperiài la g'ha ubligàt i lombàrcc a 'nmocelàs entùren al sò car de batàia (el "Carroccio").

Nah most romance vocabulary is traceable to Latin. On the other hand a lot of Greek vocabulary is probably derived from Latin, Turkish, and British sources.

There's a difference between ancient and modern Greek and the Archaic language the Greeks spoke is even weirder.

I understand most of it, but I'm not going to attempt translate it as I'm on my phone.
Plus I never said I could speak Italian or Spanish, or even Portuguese, I just said I could understand these languages in written form.

>the matter of rape, just keep in mind they were committed by local converts
Care to elobarate on that?

It means that Turks as you know them are just converted Balkanites and Anatolians. They barely have any actual Turkic DNA. Thia is why Turkish DNA is an oxymoron

Except there wasn't any strawman in the post. The point is that Greeks didn't suddenly stop speaking Greek during the Ottoman occupation and then picked it up again

>The point is that Greeks didn't suddenly stop speaking Greek during the Ottoman occupation and then picked it up again

The user didn't imply that, he just said they made ancient greek more relevant again

thanks for taking the time to post this

Absolute rubbish. Modern Greek and Ancient Greek (or the various languages) are more similar than different. A Greek can understand Ancient Greek perfectly well if taught properly about Modern Greek vocabulary and the etymology and so forth. And there's no borrowing since it's pretty much the same language. Almost every Ancient Greek word was used throughout history by Greeks, they didn't "borrow" words that weren't used for centuries.

Yeah i doubt that. Either greek was a revived language or you're bullshitting

Mediterranean master race.

Because greek didn't develop into a dozen different languages so there was never any reason to differentiate them.

Because we are pretty Fucking stubborn desu.
Καθαρευουσα was was also a more "pure" version of the Greek language but on the 20th century we chose the version that we use now

It means that the "Turks" were just converted Balkanites.

>mfw some retarded amurican mongrel who can't even find his n*gger dad calls me a turskih rape baby

The most complete study of Greek skeletal material from Neolithic to modern times was carried out by American anthropologist J. Lawrence Angel [6] who found that in the early age racial variability in Greece was 7% above average, indicating that the Greeks had multiple origins within the Europid racial family. Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.” Buxton [30] who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”

>Cyprus
>Greek

Cyprus has always been a clusterfuck of ethnicities: Anatolians, Syrians, Phoenicians, Turks, Greeks

>It means that Turks as you know them are just converted Balkanites and Anatolians. They barely have any actual Turkic DNA. Thia is why Turkish DNA is an oxymoron
Wrong. I assume you're a Greek so you're pretty dumb/biased about Turkish history. If you think a small amount of nomads can change millions of Greeks' culture, which is thousand years old, then you should not even be allowed to post here.

By Turkic dna if you mean Mongoloid dna, then
the Modern Turks have 2% to 20% Mongoloid dna. But the Turks who arrived in Anatolia were already mixed with local Iranians and Persians. So they were, I assume, 13% Mongoloid to 55% Mongoloid. Similar to modern Turkmenistan Turkmens, who look Iranian/Mongoloid. There are still asiatic looking Turks and they're not a minority, nor the majority.
There were no "assimilated" Anatolians or Greeks during Seljuk/Ottoman times except for Devshirmes. The assimilation/islamization of Anatolia happened through intermarrying with Greeks/Armenians. As one Byzantine historian puts it in 1300s, local population of Bithyna (western anatolia) consisted of Turks (Turkmens), Greeks and "Mixovarvaroi" which means "Mixed barbarians". Similar to Turcopoles except they're muslim.

Oh and forgot to mention Muslim Greeks who were muslim yet protected their Greek identity.
Also if you're ever interested there's a website called gedmatch and it has 2 population mix thingy. It gives you information about which 2 population mix is similar to your genes. And turks usually get 30% to 50% Turkmen+Greek

>A Greek can understand Ancient Greek perfectly well if taught properly

Anyone can understand ancient Greek if taught properly.

>this obvious strawman

The intelligibility of Romance languages is inconsistent at best. Spanish people can't understand Portuguese as well as Italian, and Portuguese speakers can understand Spanish better than viceversa. Written Italian is very different from written Iberian, French is, just like english, a rape baby of Germanic and Latin. Accents play a big role, so even within the same language people from different areas might have an easier time understanding one or the other.

Romanian and Italian would be among the most mutually intelligible as they're both very similar to classical Latin. But I think Romanian also has a lot of slavic words borrowed so i'm not sure how much of a problem that'd create.

>they mixed Latin with germanic languages
what the fuck

Laconic Greek motherfucker, do you speak it?

Germans banged the Romans and turned them into Italians.

Wrong, the germans have barely made a dent on Italy's genetic profile.

No, they spoke Latin in Italy for a long time. Ostrogoths and beyond. Italian is what Latin morphed into over the centuries on its own.

Bullshit, the Jews corrupted Latin because it was the Christian language and they wanted the Italian peninsula to be fractured

I speak italian and french, yet I can't understand spoken or written romanian at all and spoken portuguese is very hard to understand, especially portuguese from Portugal.

>Written Italian is very different from written Iberian
Iberian? You mean spanish and portuguese? Wrong, I can understand (95%+) any text.
>French is, just like english, a rape baby of Germanic and Latin
There are very few french words of germanic origin, stop this retarded myth, italian has probably the same amount and german is more latin than french is germanic. French is an extremely latin language which comes directly from vulgar latin, used to sound like italian during the Middle Ages and which today is more similar to italian than spanish is. Look up the Oaths of Strasbourg to see the oldest preserved french writings, they are completely latin. English on the other hand is indeed the rape baby of germanic and...french!
>Romanian and Italian would be among the most mutually intelligible
I understand romanian as much as I understand dutch, literally.

illiterate retard

@2851671
You are retarded.

When greek boys are required to read the Odyssey, they buy a translation into modern greek.

>Iberian? You mean spanish and portuguese? Wrong, I can understand (95%+) any text.

But not the other way around. And like I said, it's inconsistent, it varies from person to person, i'm talking in general.

>used to sound like italian during the Middle Ages and which today is more similar to italian than spanish is.

Literally everyone I've spoken to in my life says the opposite, the order from closest to furthest I usually hear is:

Latin < Sardinian < Sicilian < General Italian < Romanian < Spanish < French

And i'm sure there's other languages that should be there too but those are the ones I remember.

Oh, right, Portuguese, should be after spanish.

>Literally everyone I've spoken to in my life says the opposite
French is more similar to italian than spanish is, that is a fact and as a native speaker of italian and french, I am telling you, I CANNOT UNDERSTAND ROMANIAN AT ALL! With my knowledge of english I literally understand dutch better.

Oh and I understand Corsican better than Sicilian which is also less intelligible to me than Spanish.

In 1821 they genocided like 80% of the muslims in Greece, a large portion of which were likely 100% Greek but had just converted. The other portion being those who who were born into a muslim family. The rest were deported in 1923 during a population exchange.

On top of that millions of Greeks occupied around half of Anatolia for thousands of years, it's ridiculous to say that Greeks are part-Turk (or whatever people on here say, I here 'rapebaby' alot which is pretty immature) and not the reverse.

That being said the only place in Greece that has remnants of the Ottoman Empire is Western Thrace. You compare many parts of Greece that weren't occupied (or groups of people that fled to the mountains when Ottomans entered, like the Sarakatsani for example) and they look just like any other Greek from that area.

So are ancient Greeks not Greek then?

Yeah that explains why Greek is the most prominent language in the island and the Cypriots have identified themselves as Greeks since forever.

>There were no "assimilated" Anatolians or Greeks during Seljuk/Ottoman times except for Devshirmes.
Is thia a joke? Then why did inner Anatolia suddenly change from Christian to Muslim in a short period of time after Manzikert? Even in the 1300s the only reaaon why Turks got this far was because the Byzantines neglected their Anatolian borders after 1267. Also you've just proven his point that Turkish DNA is just a mixture of various DNAs from different people.

Not him, but your examples are too easy...

But I have never heard the "He does not understand the Catalonian" = "Dumber than a brick" one, that's hilarious.

Wish someone made a more global version of this

>Is thia a joke?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Muslims
>Then why did inner Anatolia suddenly change from Christian to Muslim in a short period of time after Manzikert?

First: It didn't suddenly become Muslim. There were millions of christians in Anatolia till 1920s.
Second: First reason why Anatolia became islam majority/significant minority is heavy migrations of Turkmens from Central Asia and Khorasan (western iran) and other places.
Third: Turks gradually intermarried with christian inhabitants of Anatolia (Greeks/Anatolians/Armenians whatever) and their children became muslims. That's called assimilation through marriage/interbreeding

>Also you've just proven his point that Turkish DNA is just a mixture of various DNAs from different people.
His point: Hurr we pure Greekz, Turks are not Turkic they're pure Hittitez an Balkanitez
My point: Turks are a mix of Turkmen invaders, who initially mixed with Local Iranian central asians and Persians, and hellenized Anatolians or Greeks and Balkanites to some extent (limited to Thrace and Istanbul)

Bosniaks are Serbian converts, Pomaks are Bulgarian converts, Greek converts have long since been either genocided or became outright Turks. It is also estimated that there are more Turks of what would today be called Bosniak origin than there are Bosniaks.
The scale of conversion to Islam in the Balkans is downplayed and forgotten, mostly because the Muslims generally emigrated to Turkey (or other parts of the Ottoman empire) as the Independence wars were being waged, the Izetbegovic family (The father of the Bosniak nation and one of the current presidents of Bosnia) lived in Belgrade for centuries before the mid 1800s when they moved to Bosnia.
The last big wave of migration was in the Balkan wars and in the Greko-Turkish population exchange.
There was great hate towards converts, they were seen as traitors, a sort of 5th column, Turks, no, worse than Turks

>they mixed Latin with Germanic languages

To a very low extent. The only truely mixed Germano / Latin language is modern English. Very little Germanic influence over current Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Rumanian. Slightly more over French.

>Greece has always been Greek

Greece was Roman for about 1300 years and it was Ottoman for another 400 years