How were people operated in the ancient and medieval times? And how did people attend wounds...

How were people operated in the ancient and medieval times? And how did people attend wounds? For example if someone lost an eye what did they do?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery
ourworldindata.org/human-height/
slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/04/10/dental_hygiene_did_people_in_the_middle_ages_have_bad_teeth.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Liston
twitter.com/AnonBabble

bandaged them up and hoped for the best, mostly
if you were lucky you might get someone who knows traditional remedies who would put some mashed up plants or something on your wound, and if you were really extra lucky, that mashed up plant or whatever might actually have some anti-bacterial properties instead of just being a meme

Pray that the grangene, sepsis or necrosis won't kill you

>le people died from infections in the ancient times meme

>infections don't kill people

Sterilization is a conspiracy made up by the (((medical jew)))

surgery didnt exist until invention of anesthetics
you could maybe undergo some mutilation by cutting a limb as fast as possible, if you didnt die from the pain (battlefield and such im thinking)
also what were they supposed to operate? they knew nothing of diseases

>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery
>Surgical texts from ancient Egypt date back about 3500 years ago
Read a book sometime

>drilling holes in skulls and drilling holes in teeth
>surgery
that's a reach

If we still have people die from infections today, with all of our accumulated collective knowledge of medicine, how do you think people fared 500 to 1000 years ago? Sure, people weren't dying in droves, but sterile technique wasn't really a thing.

That was actually a very intriguing read, but you're still a faggot

hope you get your treatments in the same way
guess when they teared out an ingrown nail that qualified as surgery for you

surgery doesn't mean it has to be pleasant by definition you fucking faggot. Anasthetics making it less painful doesn't somehow make it "more surgical"

anestethics are necessary to take out pain of course but also to keep patient still and abolish all reflexes which would be a problem in surgery
if your definition of surgery is that wide then enjoy yourself, i have nothing more to tell you

>pretending to be retarded
punching a hole in someone's tooth hardly qualifies as surgery.

By Roman going into Medieval times you had surgeons sitting at about the same social status as a barber.

If someone cracked a bottle over the top of your head and left a glass fragment embedded in your skull, your friendly neighborhood surgeon would come over and go chopping merrily in the goop until he got to the injury, where in he would remove the shard and bolt a metal plate over the injury. And considering that it was all done without anaesthetics (if you were lucky you were given a shitload of alcohol) it was exactly as fun and memorable an experience as you might imagine.

By the time of the civil war, it was easier and safer to just saw a limb off rather than try to save it.

Our standards for anaesthesia, hygiene, education, science, techniques, equipment are comedically higher.

Hippocrates is a rare examples were a physician would also write on bone-setting and bandaging, but for the most part physician and surgeon were people of completely different social classes - surgery wasn't even taught at the universities for entire centuries.

Surgery was crude, cruel and painful. And most importantly dangerous. A wound could be treated by debridement, which means you actually end up enlarging it by deliberately removing more tissue. You would also leave it uncovered on the grounds that it can heal faster if it dries up. Battlefield surgeons would boast over how quickly they could perform an amputation. Tools and hands would hardly be washed.

Ethanol was your best general purpose antiseptic, and if in sufficient quantities, your best analgesic. Everything else is taken care by something for the patient to chew on, and a strong man pinning him down.

All of this doesn't mean people weren't willing to risk so much over getting tumors, stones, appendices, etc. removed by people without the quivalent of a medical degree.

>if someone lost an eye what did they do?
Scream, stop the bleeding by pressing something against the cavity, sew it shut, wear an eyepatch?

We're not too different here, what changed is that a present-day ophthalmology specialist surgeon may prevent the eye from being completely lost in more situations.

On the other hand, people weren't weak faggot shits like modern man.

Sterile technique is a necessity of the plebeianization of combat, industrial society and mass mobilization.

It's still surgery you retard.

Removing an ingrown toenail is surgery too for that matter. It doesn't matter how complex is it.

yeeaahh! not getting tetanus is for PLEEEBBBSSSS give me e. coli so I can be a MUURRNRNNNNNNNNNNNN

>mfw nu-males define their masculinity by what diseases they catch

It's so adorbs watching the lessers compensate for their dick size.

It is a fact that immunization has decreased, body size has decreased, tooth health and various other forms of physical degeneration has been suffered since the age of mechanization/industrialization/urbanization.

damn right, that immunization helped a lot with plague, pity we dont have that anymore
and my grandparents were basically giants too, all right on the spot

>plague
literally a result of grain agriculture and subsequent urbanization, i.e. "modernism".

>body size has decreased

But that's fucking wrong, retard.

>ourworldindata.org/human-height/

Eat shit.

Ooooooh, you're one of those an-prim NEOLITHIC GENOCIIIDDEEEEEE REMEMEBER THE TEN THOUSAND autists.

lol @ worshiping man when he was a filthy unwashed savage over worshiping man when he rose above everything else

pity no one explained that to Antoninus, fucking modernist ruined the world

source: HBO's Rome

Dont cut yourself wifh that edge

>tooth health
Just that, because we eat much more sugar than people did in Medieval time, but cancer existed since forever, one of the roman emperor fuck If I remember who was believed to have suffered from it, might as well say autism exists only since the 20th century just because we now know what it is.

there were even bones from prehistoric times with bone cancer
also i doubt they had incredible teeth even with less sugar, it's just that since the average death age was around 25 there was no particular need for long lasting teeth

Medieval peasants ate hard half-cooked grains either in bread or pottage for 99% of their diet. The constant need for mastication ground down the enamel over time which allowed them lower levels of caries but higher risk of abrading away the entire enamel layer over time, leading to exposure of dentine on the surface of the teeth.

slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/04/10/dental_hygiene_did_people_in_the_middle_ages_have_bad_teeth.html

>t. Someone who has never been cut or injured innawoods

nor outtawoods i would say

Hippocrates chronicled Gangrene. Of course they fucking died from wound infections.

In 1000s China, surgery involves doing it in the open air on a clear day while your neighbors hold you down as the Doctor cuts you up while his assistant laughs at your yelling.

I guess these are children's toys.

You can tie people down you asshat.

The fuck is your definition of surgery?

Their heads look like they were shooped on.

They couldn't really do seriously invasive surgery because it was too dangerous. I think they knew to keep the wound clear of debris, but they relied on folk remedies and traditional medicine for fighting infections. Those don't always work. As for anesthesia, they used strong alcohol at first. They later discovered how to use narcotics like opium. I've seen illustrations of 13th century or so doctors giving patients sponges soaked in opium to sniff before an operation. It probably dulled the pain but obviously wasn't safe or reliable.

It wasn't likely that someone would die from a tree branch scratch, but larger injuries could get seriously infected. Mortality was probably higher among older people and children.

That sounds like an exaggeration, but the reality wasn't pleasant.

At least for the second part, it's 100% true that during the Civil War, amputation was the standard treatment for gunshot wounds in the extremities.

>people usually died at 25
Nice meme.

you got drunk and then someone whos been around longe nough to know stuff cut you open with whatever sharp tools you had lying around

if you were realy lucky or rich or important that someone might be technicaly skilled and experienced enough so that the last time he did that to someone they lived

You can use alcohol to sterilize wounds.

It has been noted by surgeons that patiences would enter a state of shock and they would actually not feel any pain.
This was mentioned by napoleonic doctors who had to amputate limbs without giving alcohol to the patients because if you got drunk during a surgery you would quite literally bleed to dead before the surgery was over.

>countering shitposting with memes

You aren't doing this thread any favors.

The only reason modern anesthetics are more reliable is because we can control the flow of gas more finely.

This would of been doable 300 years ago and maybe earlier. But nobody figured it out until much later. And so history is the way it is.

Hypothetically yes. But why do the fuck do you think people centuries ago would even know about the existence of bacteria, viruses and infections?

This. People in ancient times were more religious so god would cure them just for praying and donating to the church. Indeed the has corrupted our World with that devils invention called (((medicine )))

>surgeons sitting at about the same social status as a barber.
Surgeons often were barbers, surgeons also had nothing to do wth doctors in Europe until the later 19th centurt. Surgeons were considered craftsmen, doctors diagnosticians. Its why surgeons are called Mr not Dr in hospitals here even though they have a medical degree.

They didn't knew about bacteria but they knew that wounds would get dirty and infected and kill you. So they looked for a way to prevent that, even if they were just stumbling dick-first into the solutions.

The Romans, for example, would use oil and honey to clean and sterilize wounds, and cauterize them before closing them.

>Surgery was crude, cruel and painful.
Ha, you tell me, I had this girlfriend who had a problem in her stomach but she didn't want to see a doctor so me and a friend convince her of "open her up " and see Whats inside, so we put her in my bed we gave her some vodka and started cutting her so, we made the mistake of cutting to much and we didn't know how to "put her together " in the end we called an ambulance and she survive but she almost die and we almost got ourselfs in jail.

You did what?

I beg your pardon?

Good post dude

You do realise that professions existed before modern times right?
People didn't just hack away at random but went to the local barber.

>mfw thread full of gimps saying there was no surgery or medicine in ancient times

Are you Polish? You sound Polish.

Make a new baby.

They did their best to remove abseses, that's it really.

Someone had gangrene, he was amputated. Someone got something in his eye, he was gouged, someone got an arrow inside his body, they took it out and hoped for the best.

And because they were all retarded, they thought the most blood they lost the better the surgery would work, so most often people died from bleeding and infections caused by the surgery itself.

See

>implying medicinal plants aren't the basis for literally the entire concept of medicine

>>drilling holes in skulls
That procedure is still done today for huge subdural hematomas, which must have been daily shit back then when people hit each other in the head for entertainment. It does save lives as it eases intracraneal pressure, but the meningitis that comes after it was what ended up killing most. Some were lucky to survive, and without a doubt they would be thankful for it.

>implying cavemen diagnosed correctly subdural hematomas and carried out the according therapy and werent just trying to re-educate some misfit

>surgery didn't exist until invention of anesthetics

they were sawing off limbs without modern anesthetic until the mid 19th century, it was only fucking invented in 1846. it's less than 200 years old, we've had surgeons and doctors long before anesthetic was around.

>endless goalpost shifting to define "surgery"

neck yourself lad

>guess when they teared out an ingrown nail that qualified as surgery for you

the fuck else would it be

>lets chop this guy up and call it surgery to look professional

entertainment

nah go on believing the meme that medicine and surgery is less than two centuries old, you aren't retarded at all

Some of the talk of surgery being unpleasant and imprecise in medieval times and back isn't really that exaggerated.

A surgeon was really only as valuable as how straight a line he could cut in flesh, and was regarded about the same as carpenters socially.

I read on here about some French king who needed surgery done on his ass, and the surgeon he commissioned actually studied the area and techniques he needed for months before operating, and the procedure was successful.

After this, surgeons were viewed in higher regards socially, and the event actually caused having ass bandages fashionable among citizens for a time.

Anyone remember which king this was about?

>Christian doctors

That IS what surgery was back then.

What did they have to compare it to?

should be called butchering, since that's what it is. it's like those modern """artists""" who shit on the floor and call it masterpiece

But they didn't literally butcher people.

Louis XIV, he had an anal fistula.

It was unpleasant and imprecise, but it wasn't the equivalent of getting your drunk buddy to open you up and take a look.
People didn't had the same tools as they do now, but they did studied anatomy and disease spreading, at least on a superficial level. And did their best with what they had.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Liston
People itt should check out this guy if you haven't already
>Richard Gordon describes Liston as "the fastest knife in the West End. He could amputate a leg in 21⁄2 minutes".[7] Indeed, he is reputed to have been able to complete operations in a matter of seconds, at a time when speed was essential to reduce pain and improve the odds of survival of a patient;[2] he is said to have been able to perform the removal of a limb in an amputation in 28 seconds.
>In those days, "surgeons operated in blood-stiffened frock coats – the stiffer the coat, the prouder the busy surgeon", "pus was as inseparable from surgery as blood", and "Cleanliness was next to prudishness". He quotes Sir Frederick Treves on that era: "There was no object in being clean...Indeed, cleanliness was out of place. It was considered to be finicking and affected. An executioner might as well manicure his nails before chopping off a head".
The article is probably not the most accurate account of Liston but it's an entertaining read.

I suggest you look up trepanning, because this is a good example of crude surgery.