Althoug my life is a relatively serene and happy one...

Althoug my life is a relatively serene and happy one, I don't really think it does really counterbalance even the less tragic of all the fucked up events that characterize this world.

If there is a God, should I be grateful to him for my life, even if I know for a fact that babies die every second for unnecessary reasons? With what courage could I believe in a God that would allow things like this to happen in even only one istance? Am I really supposed to forget that the world is basically a disease-infected monumental bloodbath, at all levels of nature?

What are the reasons for believing in God, given the horror that human life, actually life in general, has been since the dawn of time? I can easily imagine a world that is better than this, why couldn't he?

Maybe that suffering is there so you can make it better. Maybe you'll make a whole lot more better than just what you are working on in the process. Maybe you'll make things so much better for everyone for so long that it justifies the suffering that led up to it.
Stop bitching about things like some sad sack of shit. If there is something you don't like about this world, then attempt to change it. Other people make meaningful changes in this world, why can't you?

>God deliberately makes a shit planet and a flawed species to rule over it, which results in unfathomable suffering.
>This is done so that humans might change it and make it better, but God already knows whether or not humans will succeed in this endeavour because he is omnipotent, and therefore omniscient.
>The logical conclusion of this is that everything in our life is fated/pre-destined, so there is literally no point to anything we do because God has already decided it.

What a horrifying view of human nature and reality.

Question:

Why did God create humans in this way? If what I said before is true, and it is if you assume God is omnipotent, then surely he does it for his own amusement?

>but he loves us
Killing 5 million children every year through starvation sure is a strange fucking way of showing you love someone.

>Why did God create humans in this way?

What do you think 'original sin' is dumbo?

More bitching. More excuses. If it's that terrible, end yourself. You aren't forced to play this game. If you think it's just fucking unbearable without some type of cosmic godmode turned on for everyone, then leave. Otherwise, you have little choice but to pay the game as it is presented to you and assume that that is how it is supposed to be.
Whether or not you frame that 'how it's supposed to be' in the context of a God is operationally irrelevant. See the problems, fix the problems.

>Original sin
>Believing in the genesis story

I will not be replying to your posts from now on.

It's better than just making whatever shit up you want about Christian belief and honestly wondering to yourself why it doesn't make sense. Salvation from sin is the key message of the entire bible. I won't be replying to your posts either since it's clear I can have a better conversation with someone else.

I think the idea of the Christian God existing or fate to be horrifying, not the lack of it.

>you have little choice but to play the game as it is presented to you
You're absolutely right. Every logical argument or accurate observations point to there being no imminent or personal God in existence.

Therefore you actually have your own free will and conscience, making you free to live the life you want to live as far as society allows. Fucking excellent. The absurd nature of the universe can be terrifying at times, but the freedom to find your own meaning in life is actually a blessing.

I hope you free yourself of your slave morality, user, it's incredibly debilitating.

You aren't free to live any way you choose. The universe actively kills people who make incorrect life choices. If you are lazy, you get fat, get diabetes and die. If you go around fucking prostitutes, you get an std and die. If you inject heroin, you get addicted, overdose and die. If you go around and kill people, someone will eventually kill you.

If you believe this life had no inherent meaning, you become a nihilist, you become depressed and you kill yourself.
There are patterns behaviors you are punished for and those that you are rewarded for.

OP here.

>Maybe that suffering is there so you can make it better.
Or, you know, it could have not been worse by design. Is malaria justifies only because someone cured him? This is a human achievement, sure, but at the same time is also a divine failure.

>Maybe you'll make a whole lot more better than just what you are working on in the process.
Although it was very basic, my initial question was a theological one, not an existential one. I'm not complaining about my life, nor am I truing to justify a depression which I do not have.


>If there is something you don't like about this world, then attempt to change it.
Ok, you're probably reaponding to someone else, you've clearly misread my original post.

This post is a collection of platitude you probably conjure everytime someone tries to question the order of the universe. Too bad that in this case the background was theological, meaning that you're "answers" are utterly useless.

I'm not the guy you're reaponding too, btw.

Let's take your answer as corect: why should I accept the concept of original sin?
And more importantly, why should I accept the concept of sin, since I'm God's design? Why couldn't God create a human race devoid of sociopaths, for example? Or schizophrenics? Why couldn't God design our brain in a slightky different way, resulting in a human race which is fundamentally ethical and incline to curiosity, love and brotherhood? All these "sins" you're talking about are a fundamental part of God's design: why shouldn't I question the validity of the choice of putting said elements in his Creation? And how could I possibly justify rationally or theologically even a milliomth of the suffering, completely meaningless and gratuitous, that pestered this race for its entire history? What reasons could I possibly have for doing such a thing?

>why shouldn't I question the validity of the choice of putting said elements in his Creation?

He didn't, that's what original sin did.

Original sin is part of God's creation, everything is.

But it was separate from humanity until Adam.

The fact that there is even a thing such as original sin in the first place is due to God, like literally everything else in existence.
You're questioning the narrative around these concepts, I'm asking instead "why would God even create such a thing? And why would he deliberately put it in the world?".

Again, without God the concept of original sin would not exist. It's a concept that makes no sense, which is used dogmatically to avoid the question of evil

The point is you're blaming God for the fault of man when you should be turning to him to be saved from those faults. Whether you don't like it or not is irrelevant, you can't opt out.

You have no way of knowing that these things you think a good universe requires, seemingly 'no suffering of its inhabitants that I can feel empathy towards' even results in a universe that is actually better. You have no other universes to compare it to, no matter how good you think your imagination is.

The funny thing is, despite your idea that there is nothing responsible for this universe with its seemingly unbearable amount of suffering, you still require someone to moan about it at. You are swimming in the ocean of piss.

Man is God's creation, why shouldn't this concern me? God decided deliberately to create man and nature this way... why? Why has he created a world dominated by violence and horror for the most part? Why has he created the possibility for men to become cruel in the first place? With the proper training, regardless of the attitude of the subject, you can turn any child into a psycho soldier: why? Why can't I blame God with these limitations he created? Either He is an incompetent, or He is the most sadistic consciousness in existence.

Why did God create good if he is sadistic? Why did he offer his son in sacrifice to save people from evil if he was sadistic or incompetent? Man ate from the tree of knowledge but was intended to eat from the tree of life. Since then God has gone through other means to try and introduce the tree of life to humanity in order to save them. He has done his part but people refuse him (it is their nature). The real 'why' is why do you choose to suffer?

>You have no way of knowing that these things you think a good universe requires, seemingly 'no suffering of its inhabitants that I can feel empathy towards' even results in a universe that is actually better

In my block 2 weeks ago a crackhead has fed his 2 months old baby to his Rottweiler, deliberately. What about a world in which this does not happen? To justify such an act you would need an incredible event to counterbalance it: you would do it to avoid another World War, probably. I see no reasonable justification for such an event, and this event was in God's design.

>You have no other universes to compare it to
What about an universe that, through God's fine tuning, ends up being exactly like this one, but in that universe that baby was not eaten by a Dog?
We're not talking about human design, we're talking about God here. He could have created any universe, but he chose to create this one. Isn't this obscene?

>The funny thing is, despite your idea that there is nothing responsible for this universe with its seemingly unbearable amount of suffering, you still require someone to moan about it at.
This has absolutely no relevance in this discussion. Stop treating this discussion as a existential one, we're talking about God here. These petty concerna of yours are only a very small fraction of the bigger picture.

>God is omniscient and omnipotent
>lets the Tempter Serpent do shit
>has to ask Cain where Abel is
explain

>Why did God create good if he is sadistic?
But does good really counterbalance the evil in this world? Is my serenity REALLY counterbalancing the life of a tortured baby?

As I said in my first post, I'm not complaining about my life, which has been so far serene. Rather I'm asking myself questions about everything that surrounds me, whihc is certainly not serene, meaningful or necessary in the slightest.

>Why did he offer his son in sacrifice to save people from evil if he was sadistic or incompetent?
But who created this evil? God himself!

>Man ate from the tree of knowledge but was intended to eat from the tree of life.
Again, you're telling me parts of God's plan: I'm questioning it.
Your answer should not be about why Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, rather you should ask yourself why all of these elements were there in the first place. Why has God created a world in which eating from the tree of knowledge results in eternal suffering for most individuals of this race?

>The real 'why' is why do you choose to suffer?
I'm not suffering, this is not about me. I'm just asking questions to people who may believe in God.

Well, what do you want? You want a universe with no free will? A universe with no drugs? A universe with no babies? A universe with no dogs? A universe where human babies can survive being eaten by an animal 10 times its weight?

This universe has a state, but it operates as a set of rules. What rule would you have changed, and what would its consequences be across the whole thing? Please, go into great detail.

4D chess

These rules are preordained by God, and I have no reason not to think that He could have not preordained in a different way, for He is omnipote t.

>But does good really counterbalance the evil in this world?
Good is infinite as God and evil is finite as flesh.

>As I said in my first post, I'm not complaining about my life, which has been so far serene.
You've involved your life and your faith:
>If there is a God, should I be grateful to him for my life, even if I know for a fact that babies die every second for unnecessary reasons?

>But who created this evil?
Doesn't matter. He can't be sadistic if he created good and if good has primacy and is infinite.

>I'm questioning it.
Like I said, doesn't matter. What's the purpose in questioning? What good would it do?

Why do you not ask why God has created good? Should you not ask why he is just? Why he is all-sufficient?

And I have no reason to believe that the rule set you can conceive of is better than the current one. Would you try to prove that assumption? Remember that a logically inconsistent universe might be hell for any entity inhabiting it.

>You aren't free to live any way you choose
Well, yes you mostly are. I have the freedom to kill myself through any of the means you listed.

Equally, I could choose to do the things you listed and not die. There are a lot of lazy people who get fat and don't die of diabetes, or lazy people who don't get fat.

Plenty of people fuck prostitutes and don't die, there is such a thing as a functioning opiate addict, and I'm pretty sure Mao died of natural causes.

I do not believe that life has an inherent meaning, as do millions of people in the world, and yet I have literally no desire to kill myself. Nihilists who kill themselves tend to suffer from clinical depression, which is a mental illness.

What you are punished for and what you are rewarded for depends on circumstances and the people you surround yourself with.

I understand that absolute free will (the freedom to live inside the sun for example) does not exist, but we do have free will.

There is a set of shared circumstances of which we are all subject to. Variances in outcomes based on particular circumstances does not change how things tend towards going.
What do I have to teach the man who knows the consequences of all of his actions though? Go, live in the freedom you've created for yourself. You wouldn't have made it if you don't need it.

I actually WAS forced to play the game. No one asked if i wanted to be born. No one said "oh hey by the way is it cool if we infect you with a degenerative disease from birth so your overall life expectancy is cut in half?"

>so just kill yourself if youre sad and the world is a dying shitheap
Yea cuz thatll fuckin show them.

So I guess your consent has nothing to do with it then. Maybe it isn't as valuable as you think it is.
You have the option to leave now. Who is it you are trying to show something to by staying?
Have you something to fight against still, despite all of the seemingly negative things up until this point?
What passion drives a person like you forward?
Should that passion not exist in this universe?
Would we that remain be better off without it?

In every major religion committing suicide will have you burning in Hell forever.

>chrislam is the only major religion

What sort of people comprise +50% of the world population? It's not Arabs, it's Pajeets and Chinks.

Hinduism and Buddhism have minimal taboo against suicide, as you might figure from the suicide rates in Japan and the existence of that entire clade of cardiac glycoside trees in India. The Abrahamic view is NOT the only one. The Buddha himself encourages you to "take up the knife" if you're detached but aren't driven to be a Bodhisattva.