Is there any realistic situation where Stalin and Hitler could've had an actual alliance?
Is there any realistic situation where Stalin and Hitler could've had an actual alliance?
Jackson Miller
Cooper Edwards
No. While Stalin had pretty much abandoned Marxist revolutionary internationalism for a realist foreign policy, the Third Reich's main goal was the annihilation of the Soviet Union and the creation of living space in Eastern Europe.
Nicholas Nelson
No. Communism is a globalist ideology, unlike national socialism. Conflict was inevitable.
Connor Scott
>Communism is a globalist ideology, unlike national socialism
A myth. National socialism is completely globalist, it just wants to conquer and get rid of everyone else instead of integrating them.
"If a nation confines itself to 'internal colonization' while other races are perpetually increasing their territorial annexations all over the globe, that nation will be forced to restrict the numerical growth of its population at a time when the other nations are increasing theirs. This situation must eventually arrive. It will arrive soon if the territory which the nation has at its disposal be small. Now it is unfortunately true that only too often the best nations--or, to speak more exactly, the only really cultured nations, who at the same time are the chief bearers of human progress--have decided, in their blind pacifism, to refrain from the acquisition of new territory and to be content with 'internal colonization.'
(...)
A time will come, even though in the distant future, when there can be only two alternatives: Either the world will be ruled according to our modern concept of democracy, and then every decision will be in favour of the numerically stronger races; or the world will be governed by the law of natural distribution of power, and then those nations will be victorious who are of more brutal will and are not the nations who have practised self-denial."
Liam Ward
What about aliens? or at least some form of common enemy, would that change things?
Luis Baker
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James Ross
See, you and everyone else who believes that Hitler might have allied with the soviet union are making the same mistake stalin did.
Underestimating hitler's autism.
Asher Hernandez
Poland, 1939.
William Long
Andrew Johnson
But they were allied for some time.
Soviet resources and food supplied Wehrmacht in their invasion of France.
Jayden Brown
>Is there any realistic situation where Stalin and Hitler could've had an actual alliance?
They did have an actual alliance for a period of time.
Parker Carter
/thread/
Lucas Taylor
Even without the nazis retarded idealism, Germany would have a hard time accepting the soviet union since its a giant military threat to them.
Eli Walker
Yes, in 1940 Molotov had talks with Hitler in Berlin about the USSR possibly joining the axis. Talks were going great until they started talking about Bulgaria, which both countries thought was in their sphere of influence. If either side conceded Bulgaria the world today might be totally different
Anthony Scott
Bump
Robert Morgan
This is a bit of a longshot, but here we go:
1. Germany never breaks its alliance with China and similarly never allies with Japan.
see this: en.wikipedia.org
2. The relationship between Poland and Japan grows from one of mere intelligence sharing (see Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands") into a full-fledged anti-Soviet alliance.
3. Japan performs better at the battle of Khalkhyn Gol. Thus Japan doesn't become paranoid of the Soviet Union. Perhaps the Soviet-Japanese border war continues into September 1939 or later.
en.wikipedia.org
4. Lastly, the Western allies never wage the "Phoney War". France continues with the Saar Offensive, requiring the Germans to pull some troops out of Poland. Perhaps Britain resurrects a blockade of Germany.
en.wikipedia.org
In this timeline, Germany is anchored to nationalist China, not Japan, who is anchored to Poland. The Soviet Union finds itself in a possible two-front war. Both Germany and the Soviet Union are in far more precarious positions than what happened in our current timeline, thus desperate enough to where they might make a true alliance.
Mind you, this is a lot of speculative counter-factual history, so take it with some salt.
Jason Morgan
>mfw we get to kick both Nazi AND Communist
Caleb Taylor
*ass
Juan Gonzalez
Pretty much. People forget or don't want to know that their alliance was actually pretty close.
Now if OP only asked if there was a scenario in which both regimes cooperated peacefully until the end then it's not likely because both wanted to conquer as much as possible. The only alternative I see is if they knew that neither had the edge over the other.
Julian James
The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and how it played out was the best you could have possibly expected from them. Anything very far beyond something like that is pure alternate masturbation. They were going to go to war.
Asher Myers
But before that happened they helped each other out in a couple battles, the Soviets sent them os of their Jews as a gift, Gestapo learned a few tricks from NKVD. It was a lot of fun.
Mason Ward
>national socialism isn't globalist
Then why fight wars of expansion to eliminate the Jews, Gypsies, Serbs, Greeks, and Slavs from all of Europe instead just in your own shithole Hans?
Thomas White
Maybe if Britain and France attacked their Caucasus oil fields like it was planned before fall gleb
A temporary alliance perhaps?
The Soviets did try to push for one following the non aggression pact they even sent Molotov to negotiate the Soviet union joining the axis
Wyatt Collins
Only if someone shot Hitler. Then yeah they could have had an alliance.