How would we remember the nazis if there was no holocaust? Still big assholes...

How would we remember the nazis if there was no holocaust? Still big assholes, but apart from that a normal military dictatorship.

They literally started WWII.

About the same as Imperial Germany

They would still be remembered as a risk acceptant millinarian dictatorship that plunged Europe into another round of world war when literally nobody else wanted a fight like that.

They would have an even more cartoonishly evil depiction, because there's no genocide we need to be respectful to the victims to.

Look at the USSR in western media today, Command and Conquer, 'in soviet russia', drunk bears in ushankas. They're caricatures of themselves.

Imagine that, but for Nazis.

>literally
and figuratively?

The Holocaust wasn't even the worst thing they did. That was the Hunger Plan.

Well they'd still have committed lots of war crimes even without the Holocaust, comparable to Soviet Russia and Imperial Japan. We don't remember those places fondly.

The Nazis needed a Holocaust. It was the logical conclusion of their rhetoric. An authoritarian regime needs a scapegoat to justify its existence. The Nazi war machine needed slave labor, and Jews were pushed into that role. Tanks, rockets, guns, etc. do not build themselves. But that then creates a new problem. What happens when these slaves become too sick or weak to keep working? It's a waste of food to feed a slave that cannot work. You have to get rid of all these excess people somehow.

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We would remember them as people who wanted to eradicate slavs and gypsies because they needed more lebensraum. We would also remember them as reatrds whose "country" collapsed 12 years after it was created and we would also remember them as the people who made nationalism a taboo subject of discussion in the west.

Probably looked at through historical eyes in a similar way as the Germany was during ww1 is today.

There would be a lot more people shitting on the Versailles treaty.

Hitler would be the famous tyrannical German leader with Hypospadias who occasionally pooped his pants! Hence the nickname H-man for Hypospadias, Homosexual, Hypochondriac and Hate-filled as well as his name.

And let's remember: Hypospadias does NOT have to mean Micro. Those are two separate medical conditions that do not always coincide.

Google "hypo cock" to see what I mean!!!

No holocaust means they still had the brutal extermination type policies towards Slavs, brutality against the French once resistance began to prop up.

Without the Jewish persecution however it's possible that Jewish academics (and let's be honest that proportionally Jewish folks are overrepresented in intelligensia, this isn't a conspiracy theory) would promote a more positive impression n of the Germans. If this was happening at the same time as the british in palestine and I believe Stalin's increasing hostility to Jews germany could well be more of the Jewish savior/sympathetic figure.

But that assumes not just no holocaust but also no jewish discrimination.

The real way to figure that out would be if Jewish accounts of Germany in WW1 prior to Hitler's rise to power were more benevolent or hostile.

>if there was no holocaust

The Nazis aren't vilified because of the Holocaust. That's just what we use to vilify them. WW2 was a horrific clusterfuck no matter how you look at it, but if you paint one side (the one that lost of course) as a force of pure evil all of a sudden that enormous loss of life, dignity and wellbeing can almost seem worth it. If there was no holocaust we'd just have a million movies about shelled out Russian cities and 'Come & See' would be mandatory viewing in all Allied nation high schools.

Something interesting in The Man in the High Tower, an alternate history novel about an Axis victory. The British, Churchill and the actions of the Commandos in Africa are considered the big evils of the war.

>alternate history shows Britbongs and Churchill as evil but not objective history

Why is that?

POO

>The real way to figure that out would be if Jewish accounts of Germany in WW1 prior to Hitler's rise to power were more benevolent or hostile.

In WW1, Jews were generally pro-German. Jews in Poland were actually lynched because of rumors that they had pro-German views. And basically, they did. The Russian Tsar was seen as the person who was doing the most to oppress Jews at that point in time, so most Jews supported the German war effort against Russia. Many German Jews saw the war as an opportunity to not only prove their patriotism to Germany, but also perhaps help liberate Russian Jews from the tyrannical Tsardom. Over the course of the war, over 18,000 Jewish soldiers received the Iron Cross award for distinguished service.

But of course, they were still regarded with suspicion. In 1916, a person within the German government ordered a census of German Jews. The standard rumor was that Jews were not serving the German army like the rest of the country, and that the few who were had somehow worked out backroom deals to avoid front-line service, getting assigned to support roles instead. The results of the census showed that the opposite was true, that Jews had were serving in the Army at a disproportionately high rate, and of those in the Army, 80% were in front-line combat roles.

However, the true results of the census were never published. They were kept secret until an anti-semetic magazine writer leaked the census, while at the same time misrepresenting the results to make Jews look bad. This ugly incident greatly intensified anti-semitism in Germany, becoming the genesis of the "Stab-In-The-Back" myth which the Nazis capitalized on in their search for a scapegoat. This also contributed to why so many Jews stayed in Germany rather than leaving before it was too late. Many Jews who had fought in WW1 naively believed that their service during the war would protect them from persecution.

They would have had a better chance at winning from Soviet Union if they didn't spend time and resources on exterminating jews and slavs. They could have used them in their armies. I remember this AMA on Reddit from some Russian that was captured and had to take care of wehrmacht horses. He said the Germans threated him way better than the Soviet Union had (food, boots, etc).

Who makes your tanks, guns, and rockets if you don't enslave the Jews? And how do get rid of Jews who are too sick to work if you don't gas them? I sometimes feel like people just want to believe that the Nazi economy could have functioned during the war without slave labor. They simply could not.