Index Funds

>the economy will crash because no one is actually trading.
eh?

passive bond etf and passive precious metal etfs can make up some of your portfolio if you are worried about a crash.

s&p500 hits record highs everyday now just buy that tho

unless you got a couple hundred thousand dollars to throw at it, i wouldn't bother, returns are too low, only boomers use it

buy crypto user

aslong as you dont buy legitmate shitcoins like bitbay or espers, its pretty much risk free aswell

>short termies
>offering good investment advice

no index has had a downtick since like november last year, could you clarify?

This guy gets it.

>If you have under 20k, you should either be holding it in a bank, or find company with tiny marketcaps (ausfag and the main industry I would look at is weed stocks atm), or cryptos
>20k to 100k should be looking at top tier stocks for sweet dividends, or if you are too stupid, then actively managed funds/ETF's trying to beat the benchmark
>100k+ index funds or ETF's
>

Absolutely, it's the best way to invest that isn't a meme. And Vanguard has some of the lowest fees in the industry (although I hear Fidelity and Schwab have equal and some competitive expense ratios now).

You won't get rich quickly, you will get rich slowly and depending on how much you can save, you could retire over 20 years earlier than most people.
While you're retired you can enjoy spending time reading posts about which coin is going to the moon and watch all the cryptocucks go broke while you're nice and comfy.

thank you sp500

Have you invested yourself?

wew, I used daddys money

how long did this take you ?

and on how much initial capital?

Nice FUD buddy but BitBay is not a shitcoin. Kys

I bought in when the market crashed. that's all. The dividend is also nice, almost 5 dollars a share now.

I think what people mean when they say passive investing isn't a good thing for the market as a whole, is that there's been a proliferation of index following. This can lead to money being pumped indiscriminately into the market, and along with past quantitative easing, is leading to an overall warped pricing of the general market.

If the Fed start to increase rates more frequently within the next few years, I strongly believe there will a stronger outflow from equity markets and more into risky free/low risk debt. Additionally, many new investors will make the choice to go straight into debt, as debt will likely be of a comparatively better valuation to equity markets.

I believe that indexing should be one of the pillars which holds up your portfolio, but you should try to take some initiative in understanding more about the market and also consider investing in companies you view to be both stable and profitable.

what companies do you think are "stable and profitable" over the next 10 years?

Can you give some how to ? I would also like to invest but i am from EU.

Start reading articles on seekingalpha.com. Great resource, lots of info. But stay away from the mlp (master limited partnership) shills.

>Should I invest in index funds? Is everybody doing it?

do target funds not index
personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0696&FundIntExt=INT

You won't outperform the market based off of your shitty knowledge. It takes months/years of time that most people don't have. Indexing is the way to go for smaller, prudent investors that can't hire a financial advisor.

I would recommend any newcomer investors to read articles about general consensus (as the other user mentioned), also to look into Dow Jones companies to form a strong base for their portfolio around indexing. McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Caterpillar. Bank stocks are also a good idea if you're after good dividend return (Goldman, JP Morgan, etc), particularly since they've passed those stress tests and may incur some level of deregulation through Trump. Would have to see how supply chain issues pan out for Apple, along with monitoring sales growth before buying into there, but it's definitely a consideration.

As you become more experienced in what the signs of a good company are (for its industry), you can slowly move towards value investing.

>muh passive bloating
>muh warped market
this is a canard used by active managers to scare over-analyzers into paying them, these doomsday prophecies are a dime a dozen

predictions of what will happen due the fed's short term monetary policy are also so bad that you will probably make more money by doing the exact opposite of "conventional wisdom" when it comes to this bs

gotta justify those fees somehow!

also Trump predictions are worthless, I got caught in that trap myself, holding out all through 2015 not to invest because "uncertainty", thinking I'll wait until the elections were over and everything will be calm
sure enough Comey reopens the investigation, indices take a shit, election night CNN is screaming that DOW futures are down 800 points, suddenly next morning everything is fine and S&P has grown significantly since then

stock picking is a MEME
timing the market is a MEME
value investing is a DEAD RELIC

>no one on Veeky Forums is dumb enough to invest in index funds

>you can't make any money with them

t. 30 year investment

>11/30/2015

thats probably worth another couple mil

>8% bonds
completely useless and a drag on your portfolio

Until stocks crash and you sit on losses until shortly before the next crash
Never get into stocks late in the cycle
Bonds ETFs are usually cuckoldry since you can get bonds without fees, precious metals ETFs are a literal scam and precious metals are manipulated to death and back
SeekingAlpha it's a literal blog to manipulate stock prices, don't shill it

No it doesn't. If you can't pick 20 out of 1000 of stocks that will on average outperform the market, then sure, index fund, but if you can't do that, then you're fucking retarded.

you have no idea what you're talking about

there's lots of good info there for people who know nothing about stocks or how to analyze stocks.
Of course these authors have an agenda, but that's why it works - they wouldn't bother writing if it didn't benefit them in some way. So as a visitor, you get lots of great content for free.

>filename
sure am

WM is one I like, even in an economic downturn people are still going to need to get rid of their trash.

Bumping, because we need at least a couple of threads that aren't about shitcoins

On average, people never beat the market. You're asking him to do something that almost no one can do or has ever done. Thanks for the advice senpai.

ETFs will probably gain you a +7% over the years. They are pretty safe just don't be stupid if they go down for an extended period of time.

It must have been because of currency fluctuations since I hold it via a Canadian bank fund traded in Canadian dollars.

newbie here.

On ETF's they mention fees. Is that already priced into the shares, or something else...?

Also, besides, VTI and VYM, what other ETF's are worth it? are targeted ETF's worth it? (like SNSR...)

why not just wait for the inevitable crash that will happen when trump overthrows congress (or when obamacare dies)?

>never get into stocks late into the cycle

How far into the cycle are we right now?

>t.noob

Last crash was in 2008.

nobody knows, could be 2 years from now, could be 10 years from now

>People passive investing in the economy
>Generates more money for businesses to use to expand their business
>If nothing else it goes to more wages (okay, executive funding packages, lets be real)
>They then spend it on stupid shit
>People get jobs all the way down to cater to their stupid shit

Your stock would only be worth "thousands more" because they had invested into the economy growing it. Stop thinking your investment is worth any more than anyone elses. The only thing that matters is your real $ value at the end of the day.

bonds dont make big gains like the stock market does

Healthcare is a massive shitshow right now as an industry, and needs to crash. Right now its been built up on the premise that the government will pay for it so everyones been charge happy and okay with retarded pricing decisions.

For example my father was in the hospital because of a blood clot in his lung. They dissolved it, and after they dissolved it they brought in boots to put on his leg that was to stimulate blood flow for cases of deep vein thrombosis (because if they stand up after the medicine they could throw a clot and die). However, three days prior they had conclusive evidence that he didn't have blood clots in his leg. Some doctor, still fucking ordered it and a nurse brought it in following orders.

Meanwhile, my father who is a truck driver (no medical experience himself) deduced that if he had blood clots in his leg the boot would just trap them since he wasn't bed-ridden. No one gave a fuck if he couldn't afford the multi thousand dollar compression boots because insurance will pick it up and then the government will pick it up if the insurance doesnt.

Yes, the expenses are auto deducted.

Look into QQQ and TQQQ as well.

It'll all bounce back anyway. You're missing profits if you fail to invest.

The point of bonds isn't gains. It's to reduce portfolio volatility. If the stock market ever tanks from a black swan event, you have bonds in your portfolio to trade for stocks. Though that's debatable depending on whether you believe in rigidly maintaining asset allocation or timing rare events.

Its federal law that a hospital cannot deny someone emergency care even if they have no ability to pay.

That's what drives me so mad about our current healthcare situation, people are against medicare for all because they say "I don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare" well guess what you already fucking do. If someone like your dad shows up to the hospital with a pulmonary embolism and no insurance the hospital is required by law to do a $50,000 surgery to fix it. Then when they give him a bill that he has no way to pay he simply doesn't pay it. It's not like the hospital can repossess medical care. But they're out $50,000 so they're going to get it back one way or another. And that means they start charging everyone else more to recoup their losses, and that means rising insurance premiums.

It makes me so mad when I see people act like there being more people without insurance is somehow a good thing, as if the bill fairy is going to come down and take care of it any time they need emergency care and don't pay.

What we need is medicare for all, then people who don't have insurance now could go to a doctor when they first start feeling sick and get treatment, instead of waiting until its a life threatening emergency that requires an insanely expensive operation.

I don't think it's really worth it for the reduced liquidity and lost profits though.

Medicare for all is a fine proposition, or some other standardized form of medical care. Have it involve lengthy wait times, and other hoops to force people to plan ahead. People could still have a private option to get into a doctors office faster, or more speedy tests etc by an office getting their own devices to run the tests.

Thing is, my dad had insurance but when its a life or death thing you are going to say yes to everything no matter if it sounds stupid to you and is just the hospital having no oversight on what the doctors are ordering. They put the device into the insurance company, they agreed to the device price, and on it went to my dad who 100% didn't need it since he didn't have DVT and could stand up on his own and walk to increase blood flow.

Emergency care in general is expensive as fuck, and when people have no option but emergency care that increases the inefficiency of the system. We could also have like seven million less illegal aliens for the government to foot the bill for as a pet project that takes away money from all the other natural citizens.

>Have it involve lengthy wait times, and other hoops to force people to plan ahead
Why? Do you think people will go to the doc just because they are bored?

>We could also have like seven million less illegal aliens for the government to foot the bill for as a pet project that takes away money from all the other natural citizens.

Yeah, except it doesn't work like that. You know that illegal aliens can, and do, pay taxes, right? As a way to show good faith and build a case for them to become a citizen...?

Or they could legally immigrate (which means they arrive at all because they are poor, unskilled, and with a bad criminal history) and not artificially decrease wages for the native worker and therefore depress the economy.

the stock market has been making huge gains while the economy gets worse. Stocks continue to rise because of cheap money pumped into the system to fuel speculation. this is a sign that securities are overpriced.

Nobody can time the market. But the pattern after a crash like dotcom or 08, the SP500 drops 40-50% in value and then gains it all back in a couple years. Even if you put money into a fund now and it all crashed tomorrow, you'd eventually gain your money back, but its less risky and more profitable to wait for the right time to jump in when everything is on sale

whats the green section of that pie chart?

also nice work user that is my dream, i've started in funds recently but only have $1200 so far, have an AP set up to keep it growing though, can I ask how you made the initial capital?

No you stupid niggers. Passive investing is not going to kill the market. Do you have any idea how much money banks invest? You're little passive investing normie niggers are like fucking krill for whales.

the economy is growing, its not getting worse

This isn't hard.

Depending on which research you go by, between 1 and 10 percent of daytraders regularly beat the market. I would imagine the ones that do are the ones who are most knowledgeable, take it seriously, and maintain emotional control. All of which is under your direct control. Be that and prosper.

>I would imagine the ones that do are the ones who are most knowledgeable, take it seriously, and maintain emotional control.
more like the ones that are lucky and have insider info

You're spouting defeatest self-sabotaging BS, user.
>never gonna make it

realist, not defeatist

it's never the same 10% over the long run

it's luck

and you don't need them to
that "tiny" 8% allocation will decrease that guy's annualized gains by maybe .3% (which he doesn't need because it is a fucking 12 million dollar portfolio) while at the same time reducing volatility and risk substantially

beware of fees.
read the fine print

>put 11100000 of his daddy's fortune into a fund
>wait 10 yrs
>Oh look you cryptofags what can I do!

passive is just 20% of the market

i know that feel

bonds matter at the withdrawal phase, at the accumulation phase you would be buying into dips which makes bonds pointless

>Veeky Forums used to have good posters like iHaz who were verified rich
>They would spend hours giving advice to anons
Now Veeky Forums is 99% cyrptoshilling and shitposting about cryptos. I know that it was a containment board, but fuck there should at least be some other discussion going on.

I inherited a bunch of blue chip asx stocks when my dad passed away.

They're doing good but I'm curious would it actually be better to sell them and invest in a diversified vanguard portfolio instead? US stocks seem to perform far better than aus stocks, at least atm the S&P500 and NASDAQ are way better...

warosu.org/biz/thread/1114500

He seemed a very interesting fellow. A shame people like that don't wonder round here more.

He makes a solid argument for indexing, and for the casual investor, indexing should be their first port of call.

But, I simply cannot see how the Fed pumping money into the economy through bond buying, and lowering of interest rates (through decreasing of the fed funds rate and also because of bond buying), had NO impact on what the indices have done over these years, since 08. The dip was there, it was bought, the new money aided with further growth in later years, and US consumer tech fundamentally grew at an unprecedented level.

Trump's election was/ is a good surge. But we now face different market conditions as we go into the latter part of the decade. Central Banks around the world are becoming more hawkish (or at least looking harder for reasons to be so), this will impact how people view stock market valuations, when compared to the potential offered by debt.

However, if Trump can get through on his tax reform promises, infrastructure spending, and de-regulation, which is what the market priced in from November 2016, then there is a good chance that indices could continue their rapid growth. If it takes too long, or there's too much forced compromise, then lower risk debt starts to look even more attractive.

Again, use indexing as a base. But consider FA/TA/QA and general consensus to help with your decision making in building a stronger portfolio.

ASX and most of the companies on it run almost entirely for income investors, ie retires and super funds. Instead of investing in assets to increase growth they are content to pay out 90+ per cent of their earnings as dividends. Telstra would be the best example.

Unfortunately most of our public firms are happy to aim low and compete in ANZ market only, satisfied with the fat margins that come from being a dominant player in a saturated market.

Whereas the US market is far more entrepreneurial, and capital growth is a priority over yield.

There are exceptions in the ANZ share market though

ah the good old "index funds will ruin market efficiency" meme. no they won't. every retard normie could put their life savings in index funds and there will still be institutional investors to perform price discovery. grandpa and grandma are probably not useful for price discovery either, they just follow the shills on cnbc and bloomberg.

bloomberg and cnbc are the people running "market distortion" pieces in the first place

that and smart beta memes

yeah, so sounds like index funds could help improve market efficiency by decreasing number of people deluded by market propagandists

Let me offer something else to consider: here is the Growth of $1 (invested in a 60/40 Global Balanced Index) had you invested at the very top of the market prior to the last 6 significant stock market declines and held on for 5 years:

Jan 1973: $1.45
Aug 1987: $1.54
Apr 1998: $1.21
May 2002: $1.82
Oct 2007: $1.10
Apr 2011: $1.25

idk why millennial's don't understand this, just buy houses whenever they crash and rent them while the market is recovering my returns are usually around 6% of what I paid for the house and then I just dump it when I've made my fair share and it looks like everything is going to shit again.

It's not a 'millennial' thing, some people have an incredibly strong believe (apparently backed by empirical evidence, which I honestly find hard to understand because markets are dynamic with trends and dips/peaks, but I guess that's the trader in me talking) that you 100% never ever can time any market, and to do so is utter insanity.

They'd through everything they have a peak, without a second thought. You can get with that in the bull market paradigm, but that will bite you in the ass in ranging/bear market.

*throw everything they have at a forming peak

That's why I like houses, it's unlikely anything will happen unless government policy changes and that is easy to predict

I certainly think different approaches for different markets are what's needed. Commodities/ Forex require an understanding of both FA/TA - FA gives you the reason for the trend, TA gives you entry/exit.

With stocks, indexing is a good idea. You can also use FA to identify a company, potentially using TA to monitor volume and momentum behind current price action to identify a good entry point. And using QA to identify how best to allocate a certain item in a portfolio in terms of quantity, preferable target price range for acquisition, expected return, and identifying which other securities would work best in combination with that item, based on how they move relative to each other and/or the market.

except you don't make money with houses. after taxes and maintenance costs you rarely profit.

Late enough that it's only worth getting in right now if you're investing like 100k. If you're investing like 10k or less, the risk/reward isn't worth it.

Aside from cryptos, I'm just shoring up my cash reserves and planning which funds and stocks to buy when the market crashes, whether it's next year or a few years from now.

Yes ignore anyone saying otherwise

>Age % in total bond market index funds
>0.3 * (100 - Age) % in foreign total stock market index funds
>0.7 * (100 - Age) % in US total stock market index funds

if only I had the capital to do that

>Abbot Labs
RIP TAP
Takeda took the patents and ran

people on this board are so fucking stupid it hurts