What does Veeky Forums think of this book and post modernism?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallogocentrism

We are already in post post moderism. It's more or less autism.

Derrida argued it logically though.
>men write important texts
>texts influence society
>society reflects men's POV

Well, "codified" story is probably better at bringing out authors message or values. Also, video game story is still sort of "codified", even for open world RPG's. They are "codified" to be chaotic, if I can put it like this.

>is probably better at bringing out authors message or values

Nobody knows the author's message or values. That's the whole point about postmodernism.

You can only infer the author's message or values from the text, but a text can be interpreted an infinite number of ways.

>infinite number of ways.
I don't know about that, unless you throw logic out of window.

Subjectively interpreting a text of fiction has nothing to do with logic.

Assuming that there can only be one meaning is illogical, because facts can be interpreted in a number of ways.

I would disagree, because you need to back up your interpretation with the text itself, constructing a logical argument with the evidence at hand.

Ok, but in what way there can be infinite interpretations?

It's hyperbolic, but use your imagination.

Seems like most people involved in the war on Postmodernism, including both proponents and opponent have an incomplete idea of what the term means.

Most arguments I have seen against it (i.e. Jordan Peterson and his flock) reduce the idea of Postmodernism to the deconstruction of reality through the lens of culture (essentially the labelling of any concept that isn't 100% codified by a colloquially understood scientific theory as a "social construct") and the rejection of objective truth.

The issue with these particular ideas aren't with the content of the ideas themselves but with their application. Obviously applying Postmodern deconstruction to the idea of something like gravity is a non-starter: Gravity exists in objective reality, not just because people believe it exists.

However, the application of this style of analysis has been monumentally beneficial to certain areas of art and philosophy. For example, the entire history of Western music theory was based on some foundational principles in the Renaissance era that were simply accepted as objective facts. These included ideas that all music moves in dominant motions and must move between levels of tension determined by a basic set of triadic harmonies. For thousands of years music that used tritones, didn't resolve to I chords, and existed entirely in multiple keys without modulation was simply thought of as crappy music. Come the 20th century, we used deconstruction to find that many of our basic principles of music really were just social constructs. Almost all pop, hip hop, electronic, rock, soul, etc. music breaks several of these fundamental principles of what music is, but it sounds great all the same.

Personally I think that people mistake cause and effect.

The idea that Duchamp for example is the one who engendered the idea of postmodernism in art, or the idea that deconstruction created new modes of creating music sounds like bullshit to me.

I think it's more likely that capitalism, and the individuals who make up capitalism, constantly need to revivify the economy, and create new things(creative destruction), and that this necessitates by definition the "going beyond boundaries" that were previously claimed as being objective.

I also think that postmodernist philosophers and deconstructionists completely misunderstand what a social construction is. Social constructions aren't just whims of the mind, that you can simply ignore and create something new beyond it within your time and space.

I mean, an individual in society is welcome to try to deconstruct the notion of paper money, and he won't be alive for very long afterwards.

youtube.com/watch?v=J1291q0Jl5g

youtube.com/watch?v=iSbI8DP9URc

youtube.com/watch?v=IWRblENF2Kw

I'm not sure the musicians responsible for the advent of jazz, rock, soul, disco or techno were even aware postmodernism was a thing.

Postmodernism, being deconstructive and starting from a position of opposition at its core, doesn't exactly seem like a good philosophy to base a society upon. It is anti-culture, anti-values, anti-ideal. It certainly isn't invalid as a tool: a school of thought that can be used to scrutinize certain aspects of our lives. But it has a hard time offering the necessary foundation a society requires in order to strive together towards progress. I believe that's why the movement itself came under postmodern observation, and resulted in post-postmodern reaction.

Well Postmodernism supposedly came out of the French schools of thought in the 70s, after all of that was invented, or at least the first three, and probably had zero influence on the last one.

Cont.

I wanted to say something akin to but got bored. He is perfectly correct in his observation that a multitude of other factors are usually responsible in a much larger degree for cultural developments than postmodern thought.
Furthermore, his views about social constructs are a welcome addition.

>He is perfectly correct in his observation that a multitude of other factors are usually responsible in a much larger degree for cultural developments than postmodern thought.

Well I just think it more likely that people acted culturally with postmodern sensibilities before any philosopher actually articulated what those sensibilities were.

Everyone knew for example, that cultural artifacts like TV, advertisement and its economics creates a specific kind of social reality, long before Baudrillard wrote Simulation and Simulacra.

elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/

So you think it's use is only polemics?

call it "post-logic"

>Nobody knows the author's message or values.

Nobody ever knows this, even when the author makes them explicit we have no way of knowing if these are actually the author's views, or if he's lying, or simply mistaken about his own true motivations.