Vegetarianism

Animals have self-preservation instinct just as humans do. Like humans, they will show fear and struggle for survival if they feel they're in mortal danger.

There is absolutely no justification for eating meat other than "hurr it tastes good".Maybe unless you're stranded in wilderness trying to survive, otherwise there's tons of non-animal products to live from.
>Thus moral superiority lies in the realm of humans
Exactly, and humans can decide from a moral standpoint that eating meat is immoral.

Stop trying to apply legal concepts like "murder" to the slaughter of an animal that was literally raised to be killed and eaten. Murder has a special level of negative connotation above kill, because you're also undoing the fabric of society by illegally introducing death to an environment supposed to be protected by law. In stark contrast, killing an animal for food consumption is going along with a system that's already set up to feed people, to keep certain animals existing, and that supports a good chunk of the economy. The concepts aren't comparable at all.

How is terminating a process on your computer not immoral?

How is eating the plants an animal could have eaten not immoral?
How is defecating not immoral?

The world is immoral OP, fucking deal with it

youtube.com/watch?v=V4jZ_BV4MQ4

A thing having a self-preservation instinct is not going to convince me that killing that thing is immoral. I have a self-preservation instinct and I could kill myself anyway, even as my body protested and writhed.

If a cow could construct an argument as to why it should not be slaughtered and made into a delicious burger, I would consider becoming a vegetarian. Until that day arrives, all that can be presented is the religious non-arguments of vegans. Veganism is a vow of weakness, both physically and mentally, as evidenced by the lack of physical strength and mental fortitude of vegans.
So before you say there's no justification for eating meat, understand that there's no justification for not eating meat. Now go back to taking your supplements and attending your weekly vegetarian support group meetings.

lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html

I only eat carnivorous animals, that way plant-eating animals can live.

Thanks Korea

It's obviously immoral. It's very easy to find arguments against eating meat, while any argument FOR eating meat is flimsy at best. I'm not a vegan, but at least I'm honest enough to admit that I'm being immoral for eating meat.

This is actually one of the best arguments for eating meat, but it only applies to animals that have to be killed, like animals killed for wildlife population control.

Don't give a fuck

>any argument FOR eating meat is flimsy at best
>veggos pay out the nose to supplement their inferior diet with vitamins
Makes you think don't it?

Non-meme answer: humans have evolved to be omnivores. It's not my fault our ancestors decided it was a good idea to eat meat, even thought before that point they only ate fruits and berries. Our digestive has permanently changed and if you don't eat meat, you don't develop properly. Asking people to not eat meat is like asking a wolf to not eat meat, it's inherently part of its diet. If I could I wouldn't eat animals but unfortunately I have to in order to survive. The only thing I'm willing to fight for is for killing animals more humanely. It's absolutely inhuman to keep chickens in pens smaller than their own bodies and have their limbs atrophy. Free-range cows and chickens.

Babies have lower agency than teens have lower agencies than adults.

In perfect world, adults can kill and eat teenagers and babies for breakfast.

You don't have to eat animals, dude. You LIKE to eat animals.

You absolutely can get all the nutrition you need as a vegetarian. It's just be a lot harder, a lot more work to make sure you're not deficient of protein or any key minerals or vitamins, and you have to be okay with your meals getting pretty repetitive (hope you like eggs and beans, you're going to be seeing a lot of them). It's even possible to do it as a vegan, although that's even harder and kind of pointless in my opinion.

It's not fun. I did it for a few years, I wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't even let my kids do it. It'd just be way too much work to make sure their diet was nutritionally complete. But it's completely possible. Just inconvenient.

Can't you evolve again to eat non-meat diet?

Too much of a brainlet?

>they haven't read Singer.

I said "human" not "adult human"

Animal products literally makes you impotent! I'd say that's a good argument beyond the moral quackery

>holding animals to the standards of humans
Youre retarded. Animals cant talk, could you convince a lion not to protect its territory No? Looks like you deserve death.

It's not murder if it's lawful

because I'm hungry? I swear to god next popular thing will be plants rights movement that only allows some lab made nutrition pills

Hedonism justifies the murder for normies.

It is not possible to murder animals other than humans.

How pretentious and self-absorbed must a person be to differentiate between "humans" and "animals", place himself above this completely arbitrary and socially constructed category of lifeforms, and then shame other people for actually doing the things that they're meant to do?

We are not herbivores. Humanity has been hunting and eating other animals since time immemorial, no different then the tiger or the wolf or the shark. These creatures would have no consideration for our lives if they ever had the opportunity, why should we do the same for them? Likewise, these creatures wouldn't hesitate to eat cows, pigs, what have you, so why should we?

Quick! Somebody arrest the Lions!

Moral is subjective

I eat meat and don't really feel bad about it (a morally perfect person wouldn't eat meat, but I don't aspire to perfection) but it's interesting how clearly fallacious all the meat-eater camp's arguments are.

Seriously, guys, just say "Unnecessarily killing animals for food might be sorta crappy, but we all do lots of things that are sorta crappy, and this issue just isn't one that I care enough to address." It'd be more honest.

I have some cash saved up and I'm probably going to buy a new laptop instead of donating it to a homeless shelter, even though I already have a laptop. We all do stuff like that. It's impossible to care about everything. It's OK.

>Unnecessarily killing animals for food
But that's necessary for my diet so how can it be unnecessary?

>giving animals human rights
>personifying animals at all
You're the retarded one.
They're either pests or property and nothing in-between.

No, it's not. You can have a nutritionally complete diet with no deficiencies at all without eating meat.

It's harder. It's more work. It's kinda boring. You don't get to eat delicious stuff like bacon and steak and shrimp. You have to eat a lot of stuff you might not like as much.

So you've chosen not to do it. Again, it's OK. I've chosen that too.

But it's not necessary.

>You can have a nutritionally complete diet with no deficiencies at all without eating meat.
Literally impossible without dietary supplements, which by the by are overpriced, so no fuck off vegecuck

bos taurus is one of the most successful species in the world because of humans

"It is necessary for my diet"
"No, it is not, here's why"
"It is too expensive, that is why killing is justified"
Really?

You're objectively, provably wrong.

A balanced vegetarian diet won't be deficient of protein, calcium, iron, or zinc. The big one is vitamin B12, but you can get literally all the B12 you need from eating cheerios (and dozens of other fortified cereals). Dairy and eggs also contain it naturally, not to mention all the other products that are fortified with B12 - I'm talking about shit people buy and eat every day, not supplements or special stuff you have to go out of your way to find.

But ensuring that you have a balanced diet as a vegetarian is WORK. It's a pain in the ass, which is why we both have chosen not to do it. (On that note, I've said at least three times that I'm not a vegetarian, so at least try to make your insults relevant.)

Without meat industry cow wouldn't be alive at the first place and it is better to be alive but killed than not exist at all.

Yes, why pay out the nose for some gay shit I can get on the cheap and get to eat meat too?
>Dairy and eggs
So you're fine with the meat industry then? Because Dairy is even worse than the cattle farming from a moral standpoint
t. Actually worked on a dairy farm

Why do you think so?
Your body was probably not animated and did not exist for around a dozen billion years. Was it worse than living your life right now?

Where did all the Aurochs go again?

This. Existence is the biggest scam in existence.

If it is not about ethics but about your wallet sure you're right. No reason to.

Wherever they wanted to.

My main motivator is efficiency and not empty platitudes about animal welfare while I wear wool and leather based clothing, veges are pretentious faggots, vegans at least stick to their beleifs

So the disadvantage of being a vegetarian is the extra effort required in order to do achieve the exact same effect you get from eating meat then.
That is a legitimate disadvantage. If there were two yous, one that ate meat and one that did not eat meat and did the extra work that requires, assuming an equal time spent working on meaningful things, then the copy of you that eats meat will always turn out better than the one who doesn't. He gets a time and work advantage by simply eating meat and not having to compensate for it.
This is hardly as trivial as you make it out to be.

Have I seriously been arguing this whole time with somebody who doesn't know the difference between veganism and vegetarianism? Jesus.

On a personal level I'm fine with both. How are you not getting that? In a perfect world maybe we wouldn't be reliant on animal products at all, but I'm not actively trying to make the world perfect, or even to be a perfect person. I'm just fed up with disingenuous moral justifications for the industries.

It's a lot more work to eat a complete diet without meat. It's more work still to eat a complete diet without animal products at all, but also quite possible, so don't hyperfocus on the fact that I mentioned dairy. You do have to rely a lot more on fortified foods, but you don't have to take supplements.

We eat meat because we like it. It tastes good and it's a lot less work. And that's OK. But don't have any illusions about it.

Because this is classic vege sliding tactics
>Oh I eat meat too, but I know I'm literally Hitler for doing so
>It's immoral but the dairy and wool industries are A-OK
Fuck off and work on a farm for a week before proselytizing your moral superiority on a Manchurian meme exchange website

What is the problem then? I said you're right, why did you further justify your choices?

Sorry, are we still hunters and gatherers spending most of our time to get food?
Because if not - not being able to buy an extra movie ticket once a month as a decisive factor in individual's survival sounds a bit overly dramatic to me.

What so bad about wool industry? Sheeps kind of suffer if you let them to die from overhairing.

Jee, you have some anger issues, go camping or something.

The problem is
1: Literally nothing to do with history or humanities
2: Kill yourself
Ever worked on a fucking wool farm? No, so shut your mouth, how about the fact many of the lambs on wool farms go on to feed the meat industry? Rams don't shave too good
I'm not the faggot saying meat is murder while wearing my woolen cardigan

Calm down, it is just some text on a web page.

I'm sick of cunts like you shitting up this board with baby tier philosophy like "muh animals", grow the fuck up, high level of discourse is expected

You're not going to stop, are you?

If you keep shitposting gay bait threads, no I won't stop

We are not fucking pokemons you brain dead mongoloid.

That's not the dude you've been replying to. I stepped out of the thread for a while - lunchtime, which, yes, will feature meat.

There's also the fact that you've stopped even trying to make an honest or intellectually-consistent argument; you're mostly just shitposting about how much I love the wool and dairy industry while despising the meat industry, which is news to me. In actual fact my position on them is pretty similar.

It's not shitposting when it's true, vegetarianism is such a fucking gay ideology, I can respect vegans because at least they don't make up gay shit about X being immoral while Y is totally fine. They have definite beliefs

Because is tasty

There's intelligence to every living thing; albeit not to our level. Ever looked at a plant cell? Pretty complex, huh? Go ahead an tell me it didn't *NEED* the parts that it has to survive. But you're just gonna eat those plants because they grow back, right? Breeding animals works the same way. Explain to me why you want animals to suffer the way us humans do on this planet

See its too complicated lets eat some good asado now that everybody agrees

You sound hysterical and you've completely failed to refute any of his arguments.
Just call it a day, son.

You don't have an argument, it's just muh feelings

>There was a time when you wasn't real.
>when you wasn't real
>wasn't

Because we only eat what's available, and meat is still one of the most consumed "product" in all humanity.

So unless some global crash happens, I'll be glad to look back at this issue.

the sheer irony of this post

>I was just pretending to be retarded
It's not even a novelty anymore, try to make facts your deciding factor in future before making really shitty moralist threads which fall apart at the seams upon any critical evaluation

If someone is bad at convincing me to not kill them, it's not immoral for me to do so?
You people make no sense sometimes.

>>I was just pretending to be retarded
Literally completely unrelated to anything I have posted.
Learn to read before you bother replying again, shit-for-brains.

Fucking kill yourselves, you memers.

>Meat is murder
Your entire argument is a meme, why the fuck would I take you seriously?

Name one meme I memed, not counting the meme I quoted from that PMSing memer I was arguing with.

>Name one meme I memed
Your entire life

Are you still butthurt because you couldn't refute the fact that eating meat is completely unnecessary to proper nutrition? come on guy, have some dignity ffs

they would do the same if we were in a vulnerable situation.

wtf I hate animals now

>Meat is murder
>Let me buy these Swisse™ multivitamins to make up for my crippling malnutrition
Grow up

am i wrong?

not an argument

>Meat is murder is an argument now
Are you mentally challenged? If you need to buy supplements to approach a traditional diet you're obviously wrong

youtube.com/watch?v=LItNFP7icUw
What if as a middle ground we all just agree to eat insects?

Locusts are tasty as fuck though, they're the shrimp of the land, I'd pull the reins at mosquito though, they taste like shit

Do you really believe no animals died in the production of your vegan food?

How about all the rodents killed while trying to eat the food in the warehouse? How about all the animals driven from their homes when plowing the fields?

>we can't avoid all killing of animals so we should continue breeding them in factory farms for the sole purpose of slaughter
impeccable logic

Except you don't. You really want that to be true, but it just isn't.

It is true, there a vitamins you can not get being a herbivore fag

If the eaten animal is sentient, which I believe most or all frequently eaten animals are, then it is immoral. There is no argument against it being immoral.

>It's a lot more work to eat a complete diet without meat. It's more work still to eat a complete diet without animal products at all
Is either really that much more work? Don't you just have to eat a lot of nuts/beans/etc and then some vitamin 12 supplements every now and then? I've been freegan for about 6 years now. I eat animal products if someone offers them to me or they would get thrown in the garbage otherwise, but I don't buy animal products - although every now and then I put some cow milk in coffee when the cafe doesn't have an alternative. Following such a policy, I end up eating meat about once every two months or so. I eat a vitamin 12 pill every now and then. I feel fine so far after these 6 years of eating in such a way. That said, I've always loved fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes - even back when I ate meat - so for me this has been pretty easy.

What vitamins? To be clear, I'm not asking you because I don't understand this shit (I do, you don't), I'm asking to make you back up your bullshit. You won't be able to, of course.

They have responses to sound, not music. Calling it music implies that they can distinguish music from other sounds.

They don't even respond to sound in the way most people think they do. The idea that plants grow better when you play Mozart to them or whatever is a bullshit myth that won't die.