Ignorant people often attribute the complications in the middle east to culturally-insensitive westerners drawing bad borders. This is because they mistake colonialism in Africa, where this was the case, with colonialism in general. The borders of the middle east are not perfect, if such a thing is even possible, but definitely not "ignorant" or "insensitive". The colonists respected to the traditional geographic denominations and they respected the demographic situation in their territories. What they did wrong was imposing the concept of the nationstate in a region that (arguably) wasn't ready for it. Some people received nationalism with great enthusiasm and success, most notably the Israelis and the Turks, while others struggled. Some were thwarted by regional complications and power struggles (e.g. Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians). The Arabs struggled because the idea of a unified Arab state is far too ambitious and destabilizing for the rest of world to accept, and that's before we even begin to talk about the issues they would have to deal with between themselves.
The irony is that people who perpetuate the idea that the borders were "badly drawn" don't realize that they themselves are imposing the idea of the western nationstate on the middle east by judging the quality of middle eastern borders by how much they cater to the requirements of the western nationstate. Nationalism and the nationstates are not universal concepts, it was generated and codified by Europeans and spread to the rest of the world. Europeans themselves had struggled for a couple of centuries to bring about this change on their own continent.
The middle easterners never granted legitimacy to a state by how well it represented them as an ethnicity, they didn't live like this before the westerners taught this mindset to them, instead they rallied behind empires or were bossed around by dynasties who, mind you, often had "worse" (by western standards) borders than the colonists.
Adrian King
I've attached a borderless map so you can draw your own borders if any of you still insist there are ways to draw the map to "fix" the middle east.
I myself realize that the borders aren't absolutely perfect and some adjustments could be made, but that's the case throughout the world. I think you will quickly come to realize that it's foolish to attribute the issues of the middle east to borders.
I also don't want you to believe I'm excusing the European powers' campaigns in the mideast. They are a great source of trouble, but supporting regime change and coups, funding dissident groups, etc., in contemporary times are far more problematic than the borders ever were.
Luke Murphy
Also noteworthy is that the Arabs enthusiastically helped the Western countries boot out the Ottomans, so at least some portion of them were happy with the new borders.
Cooper Ortiz
I love how the average 89iq will decry nationalism, whole the idea of abandoning the nation state for any other model fills them with dread. contemporary nationalists for some reason dont believe they are nationalists, because they dont understand difference between civic and ethnic nationalism..
Cooper Gonzalez
Middle Eastern borders were fine until ZOG decided they weren't.
Joshua Harris
Good point. The borders weren't imposed on them without any consultation.
Camden Martinez
The fate of nationstates if globalism persists is the same as the provinces within today's nationstates: meaningless regional designations.
Daniel Price
there's no arabs outside of the arabian peninsula. You are referring to the point in history when syrians, jordanians, lebanese, egyptians etc started LARPing as arabs (1800's, no arab identity among levant ethnicities before then, still largely doesn't exist except as a geopolitical identity/concept/fiction or as a matter of convenience when talking to foriegners)
Jordan Howard
>no arab identity among levant ethnicities before then
What were they then? Why do those countries generate Islamists that travel across the world to fight in the name of the Caliphate? They didn't seem to care much for their non-Islamic history.
Jayden Cox
I'm not going to write out "Arabic speaking populations in the Middle East and North Africa" or anything resembling that when I can write "Arabs" and have all non-autists understand me.
Asher Roberts
4th Dynasty of Ur when?
James Miller
The US has also systematically sabotaged nationalistic regimes in favor of radical sunni ones.
Jason Rogers
...
Jason Garcia
>bush causes regime change but leaves borders the same ???
Joseph Fisher
if you're gonna revive the median empire at least keep the neo-babylonians too
Matthew Hernandez
and yet Iraq is now controlled by shias
James Bailey
...
Caleb Carter
Good map m8.
Gavin Wood
Are you Danish?
Gavin Lewis
>no phoenician city-states
Zachary King
This is beautiful
Levi Fisher
No. Pay your detbs yourself.
Jaxon Johnson
Scrumdiddlyumptious!
I would say give the Phoenicians their Lebanon, but asides from that this is rather alluring.
An alternate world exists where Marsh Arabs were reassimilated into Persia, the Armenians have Mt. Ararat (though still no coast!), and 'Romania' means "the lands of the Romans, which consists of the southern Balkans and Anatolia"
Oliver Rodriguez
>TFW when no Galatia or Pontic Nations
Also restore Troy
Carson Reed
The reality is a lot sadder
Lucas Wilson
Also every time people talk about how the Middle Eastern borders are terrible, I remind them that this is what Westerners think they could do to improve them, so they should be glad things are only as bad as they are.
Mason Wright
...
Zachary King
>I remind them that this is what Westerners think they could do to improve them
And a vast improvement it would be.
Jordan Cooper
>Kurdistan with Black Sea access >good
This is how I know you're a bad person
Colton Hill
>Islamic (Sacred) State >Pakistan still existing >no pan-Iranian state >Kurdistan owning rightful Armenian clay >Turkey and Azerbaijan still existing >Saudi Homelands it's shit
Landon Barnes
>No Assyria >Khuzestan, South Iraq, and the gulf coast all in one >Baghdad city state >Syria not split >Naming Najd after a dynasty >Najd still having part of the Hejaz >Hejaz split in three >Bushehr with Khuzestan Probably more too.
Caleb Edwards
I think my borders are pretty ok I took in consideration the old divisions, concentration of ethnicities and all of that specially why I would move all the turks back to the steppes
Jaxon Green
PARTITION OF THE MIDDLE EAST
>Turkey Eastern areas are no longer in its possession. Erdogan is disposed of, and inhabitants become secular. Burkas undergo stringent prohibition, and mosques are surveilled 24/7. >Cyprus Is dissolved as a sovereign nation. Greek Cyprus goes to Greece and Turkish Cyprus goes to Turkey. >North Kurdistan The K*rdish dominated areas of Turkey become independent. >South Kurdistan The K*rdish dominated areas of Iraq become independent. >Nusayria Antiquated name for the Alawites, their silver of Syria handed to their rightful dominion. Bashar al-Assad is promoted to local janitor. >Phoenecia Previous Lebanon, mostly intact. Reserved for Shi'a Muslims of the Mediterranean. >State of the Levant Encompasses areas near Beirut. Reserved for Maronites and other Christian minority groups. >Israel & Palestine Are united politically, although Palestine operates under a separate jurisdiction (much like the situation in Cyprus today). Nevertheless, covert attempts by the Jewish demographic is made to relocate these Palestinians to Jordan through deceit and bribery. >Jordan Same borders, virtually unchanged. >Al-Druze Anglicized as "Aldruze". Reserved for the Druze in Lebanon and Syria. Annexes Golan Heights as a source of energy. >Greater Syria Combined sections of Syria and Iraq frankenstein'd together. Reserved for Sunni Muslims in the area. Dictatorship is installed to prevent Islamic terrorism; parties involved in conspiracies against the government are executed. Consanguinity and cousin marriage is banned with the punishment of death, CRISPR technology is employed to fix the genetics of the population and bring them to civilization. >Babylonia Includes Baghdad, Same measures are taken as in Greater Syria. >Georgia South Ossetia is integrated with dissenters murdered in cold blood. >Abkhazia Gain independence and the approval of Putin. >Armenia Ebb portions of Turkey, Nagorno-Karabakh is incorporated, and Azeris are relocated.
CONT.
Brayden Rivera
>Azerbaijan Ethnically correlated regions in Iran are annexed, exclave is united with the mainland. >Balochistan Declares sovereignty, dictatorship is installed, consanguinity and cousin marriage is punishable with execution, death squads roam the streets to violently stamp out Islamic fundamentalism. .>Iran Are left alone by the rest of humanity, the secession of Azerbaijan and Balochistan notwithstanding >Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Qatar Ruling dynasties are trashed, dictatorship is installed to stamp out and mutilate Islamic fundamentalists. Oil dough is redistributed for STEM and the progression of technology. >United Arab Emirates Allocated more funds to making their population more savvy, the only step removing them from becoming a successful developed nation. >Oman See above. >Yemen United, dictatorship is installed and aggressive economic development is stimulated through oil by a secular ruler. >Pakistan lol >Afghanistan top kek
Zachary Hill
I'm surprisingly okay with all this although I don't believe the Sunni Iraqis are particualrly cursed genetically compared to some other populations in the region?
Levi Phillips
hello lads
Owen Price
>dividing Cyprus Stopped reading
Brandon White
Why would georgia have any authority over ossetia. They arent the same at all.
John Brooks
Azeri Iranians arent really keen on seperatism and balochis care more about sunni islam. Kzrdish seperatism would be more likely
Isaiah Ward
>Hello Sassanid Empire, we missed you! Might as well add Georgia and Dagestan and its perfect.
Parker Gomez
Unite the fucking arabs.
William Wilson
kys ruskie scum
David Taylor
Did the USA hire you to make their state maps?
Mason Long
>german trading company I got a good lol from that one, user.
Nathan Cook
Northern Iran is largely NON-Kurdish.
Azeri Iranians are genetically still Iranian anyway outside of them simply wanting more representation of their language in their regions by the government but otherwise yes. Balochis do not need a separate state either way.
Noah Ross
>Turkey still on map >Good
Joshua Ross
Rate
Kayden Fisher
It doesn't say that anywhere on that map.
Angel Wood
>giving Georgia, Cyprus and Armenia to the Turks literally genocide-tier
Brandon Thompson
>I've attached a borderless map so you can draw your own borders if any of you still insist there are ways to draw the map to "fix" the middle east. This would be much easier if you included cities on the map for reference, but thanks.
Josiah Bailey
Just make Armenia and Assyria as union that is a border between Roman Empire and Persians.
John Hughes
My attempt
Ryder Phillips
Fonts are both classy and setup the joke nicely, I like it and appreciate the effort. Shit map otherwise. The Ottoman Empire is dumb, they don't share a language even, let alone culture. Giving Istanbul to Greece is also stupid. It has a higher population than Greece, Greeks would be a minority in their country.
Oliver Walker
What a perfect world
Gavin Green
>Persia >Iranian flag wew
Bentley Adams
It would work better with Armenia between Rome and Persia, which would make them less likely to be weakened by wars when Arabs went out of their desert.
Jayden Gutierrez
The 'regime change' is the key thing to take note of here as Iraq was more stable even after having fought a war that claimed millions of lives, and would have continued being stable like every other regime from the Cold War that hasn't been overthrown by western and natal efforts already. Not touching the borders is just a ruse to cover up their intentions to control the oil market and geopolitics in the region.
Julian Bell
>All these faggots giving Greece more than the Aegean cost in Asia Minor
Greece would get rekt trying to hold center Anatolia
Joshua Watson
Yeah, I would give Tzarogrod to country that still have living descendants of last Tzar - Bulgaria. And as Greeks have small population, for getting Aegean coast in Anatolia, they would lose Greek Macedon to Macedonia, because there are ethnic Macedonians anyway.
Chase Hughes
zoom in where greece is
Noah Kelly
>found out up till the 19th century, Persia still had control of Georgia until the Q**js lost it FUCKING
Jordan Ramirez
Greater Kurdistan when?
Jeremiah Perry
So all of Cyprus goes to Greece then? Why not just say so.
Christopher Ross
>Bushehr with Khuzestan Tell me more about Bushehr's history and significance if you can?
(I was there just last week, didn't realize it had much going for it)