How can the concept of hell be compatible with an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient creator?

Just because God is giving away His grace and salvation freely does not mean everyone will choose to accept it. If they wholly reject it, then they made their bed and have to lie in it.
t. Catholic

>God knows everything
>God knows who is going to hell
>He creates them anyway knowing this

Really activated my almonds

Existence is better than non-existence.

But god has never come to me personally to grant his grace, only via human missionaries.

And I'm also being contacted by Ik Onkar, Ganesh, Allah, etc. by missionaries.

How am I expected to know which is correct?

>An existence of eternal suffering without chance of redemption is better than not existing

(You)

Yes.

You'd have to be either brainwashed or lobotimized to think eternal suffering is preferable to not existing.

He created those people who won't accept it, knowing ahead of time that they would suffer FOREVER for the "sin" of not accepting something he made them unable to accept.

Correct. Because not only would you be separated from God, you would be separated from everything that comes from God. Light, love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, gentleness, long-suffering, etc.

Being separated from God is an irreversible catastrophe that you can make sure does not happen to you, today.

This. If god really knows everything we have no free will, and Christians make a huge fucking deal about how it's our choice to love and embrace god when really that thought process is completely incompatible with an omniscient god

I'd rather live an eternity without God than not live at all (although I'd rather live an eternity with God than without)

>God is everywhere at all times
>Hell is separation from God
>God can make a place where he cannot be present

???

Well considering you're an anime poster and not actually developing your arguments I assume you're just fishing for (you)s

then explain Jesus rising from the grave, to be alive forevermore.

explain his disciples all going to gruesome deaths never recanting one iota of the gospel.

explain why we're talking about an itinerant rabbi/carpenter on a Manchurian spice trading board 2000 years later.

God knew from before the beginning who would reject him, and who would accept him.

For the people who would reject him, he prepared a place.

For the people who accepted him, he prepared a place.

Everyone gets what they want.

I do not understand how people can get what they want and cry about it.

Are you seriously telling me there's never been that thought running through your head "I'd be willing to go to Hell as long as I can have this one thing"?

I can also talk about Zeus on this same board 3000 years later.

Is he the true god then?

The Holy Spirit of God has absolutely come to you and been a witness to you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Believe Him, and do what is necessary to be saved: confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.

It's not only the best deal in the universe, it's the only deal in the universe.

>Trading finite pleasure for infinite punishment

You clearly have no grasp of the concept of infinity. Either that or you have no concept of forethought.

So maybe don't choose that option.

It's not a trick question.

>the only deal in the universe

How about Ik Onkar allowing me to understand I should live to spread peace and happiness and promote universal suffarage?

Maybe never existing is the best outcome possible; but who among us can say they achieved it?

No, play the hand you're dealt, user. Don't fantasize yourself out of the game.

Of course it's the illogical choice, evil itself is illogical, trading infinite pleasure for instant gratification, we see this in the Bible all the time, that doesn't mean that being the sinful people we are we don't fall for the temptation quite a bit.

Can God choose where He will be? Is that okay with you?

No, he's just Adam, deified by the Greeks. Which a modicum of study would have demonstrated.

But there is no infinite place of suffering, suffering without redemption is sadism. Humans experience time on a linear scale how would god expect us all to be redeemed from a punishment we've never experienced?

Furthermore, whatabout virtuous people who never even hear of god?

You're either For Jesus or Against Jesus. And yes, there are many ways that seem right to a man, but they all end in death.

This world provided you with a temporary living place. From this world, you determine your eternal living place.

There is an infinite place of suffering; Jesus made it to confine the devil and his angels.

If you join the rebellion against God, you end up with the devil and his angels in the lake of fire.

Pretty simple concept.

As to your "virtuous" person, His name is Jesus. Aside from Him, there are no good people. And He's only good because He is also God; the Son of Man and the Son of God. Ready willing and able to redeem mankind, and needs only your consent to add you to the number headed for glory.

If you went to a foreign country and murdered the son of the king, even if you were not familiar with their laws, would you not expect some fairly harsh punishment if caught?

You're not addressing the argument. My point is we have no way of knowing who's right, and you keep spouting back that YOU are right.

>If you went to a foreign country and murdered the son of the king, even if you were not familiar with their laws, would you not expect some fairly harsh punishment if caught?
False equivalence. The worst thing I've ever done from a Christian moral standpoint is masturbate.

Who said time in Hell or Heaven is experience linearly? Most explanations of Hell and Heaven I've heard make it a place where time isn't experienced as it is here.

Besides, adding more pain onto their lives doesn't make them repent, because at most that's just a forced confession.

>whatabout virtuous people who never even hear of god?
We don't know what happens to them, God will judge them justly and mercifully, but there are no good people.

So you've committed adultery then?

I don't understand your problem.

Is God right?

Or is the devil right?

Is that what you're asking me? Because as I indicated above, the Holy Spirit has spoken to your heart and told you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. That's His job. And with your consent, He will begin the process of transforming you into the likeness of Christ Jesus.

If you push aside the only means for salvation, for anything, including a lifetime of charitable works on earth, you will have been born spiritually dead, achieved your age of accountability, stayed spiritually dead, and will stand condemned already before the Judge of the Universe for not believing Jesus is Who He says He is.

Two Christians in this thread have told you the same thing, and the Holy Spirit has told you the same thing.

If you continue in your rebellion against God, know that the rebellion is already over, and your side lost.

From a Christian standpoint, you were born into the rebellion against God, stayed in the rebellion against God, were never born again in the Spirit, and thus must be dealt with as one who is dead. Eternal separation from God. Because of Adam's sin, you were stillborn, and there is no place for the dead in the Kingdom of the Living.

All of your sins were forgiven you before you were born; a pardon in your name was purchased with the lifeblood of the Son of God.

Don't blow it.

How is masturbation adultery?

If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have violated the commandment "thou shalt not commit adultery".

Sin begins in the heart, and the human heart is wicked beyond knowing.

>"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
I'm assuming that you look at or think of women when you masturbate, no?

You're creating a fake dichotomy where I must somehow know the judeo-Christian god is real because 2 humans on this board told me so.

I've meditated before and I felt closer to a higher power during that than any prayer. I've visited a gurdwara that had some of the kindest people I've ever met, and you're just going to keep mindlessly droning on about how I'll suffer forever for not believing what only 30% of the world believes?

I started this thread because I was willing to hear the other side, but alk I've heard is the same nonsensical circular arguments from 3 different people, all of which just scream of intolerance and insufferable "holier than thou" arguments.

Can we please get someone in this thread that can actually properly explain this to me?

It cannot. Christcucks are pathetically incompetent in dealing with the problem of hell, because ultimately it has no solution.

Do anime aliens with boobs count as women?

>who said time in hell is linear?

Every time I make that argument people being that up, but it doesn't matter. My point is there is a linear scale from our birth to our death, and punishment comes AFTER our death, AFTER the chance at redemption, no going back.

The punishment should come BEFORE the chance of redemption, not after.

>a literal thought crime

Woah

Of course, God knows all your innermost thoughts.

It's not a punishment, it's the choice you make. If God seperates himself from us completely how the heck are we supposed to ask for redemption with no Holy Spirit to guide us to him?

For the purposes of corrupting your heart and seperating you from God, yes.

>it's a choice you make

God knew I was going to hell before I was created yet he created me.

Not my choice.

There's only one God. If you can't figure that out, it's on you, not Him. A cursory examination of the universe suffices to know there is a God.

I've already explained it to you; the other Christian has already explained it to you; and the Holy Spirit has explained it to you.

When you face Jesus on his Great White Throne, your defense of willing ignorance of the Law will fall on deaf ears.

I guarantee you that you have never felt anything as good as what God gives his children, because anything you have felt comes from either yourself, humans, the world, or the devil.

All inferior sources.

Jesus said seek and ye will find; knock and it will be opened to you; ask and it will be given to you.

We're not the other side. You are. God has given you sufficient evidence to know He exists, and Jesus' miraculous birth, sinless life, miracle filled ministry, prophecy, fulfilled prophecies in the hundreds, and resurrection from the dead suffices as evidence Jesus is God.

You should be cast into hell before you die?

How dumb would that be?

I know the sun is going to rise tommorow, that doesn't mean I'm forcing it to do so.

Your choice as to what God knew before he created you.

It's all on you.

>How can the concept of hell be compatible with an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient creator?

It sure is compatible with people not being total cunts, I mean, we are all fluffy bunnies made of rainbows and deprived of knowledge of evil.

Where's the Holy Spirit in this thread?
No? I'm saying there should be a chance at redemption after death.
You knew the sun was going to rise and that your wife didn't want it to wake her up, yet you opened the blinds.
>Your choice as to what God knew before he created you
That's not how it works. If it must happen, it's out of my control.

Forgot to tag you ^

>If it must happen, it's out of my control
But it doesn't have to happen, you can still choose to repent and accept him into your heart right now.

No I can't, because then he would have created me knowing I would go to heaven, which would defeat the set up of the entire argument I was making.

The Holy Spirit is in the Christians posting in this thread, telling you the gospel.

There is only this life to make the choice because once this body dies, you are resurrected into one of two eternal bodies; one for shame and destruction, and one for glory. Your pick.

You keep trying to deny personal responsibility for your decisions about Jesus Christ. It won't fool God. It doesn't even fool me.

You keep thinking God and you experience time the same way.

God sees the end from the beginning.

A thousand years is as a day to Him, and a day is as a thousand years.

He knew all your decisions that you would make, but they are all your decisions to make.

make wise ones

You're confusing him knowing the future with him determining your actions. It's like the whole sun analogy I just mentioned earlier.

Or God knew you were going to heaven before you were created, and he created you.

Your choice.

Gotta scoot, but it's been a pleasure posting with you. See you in heaven!

>"Wahh, why doesn't a just God let an unclean sinner into heaven!!!"
Get behind me, Satan.

No one knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Only God.

Kys

You don't deserve to use her likeness, heathen.

Knowing the consequences of an action and still committing it is what's problematic.

The sun analogy is bullshit because god creating me is an active role on his part, whereas you don't make the sun rise.

God created 70 percent of the current human population (the pagans and atheists) knowing they'd go to hell. Assuming some sort of miraculous awakening and conversion spree, that still means about 50% of the world today was created by a god that knew his creations were going to hell.

No it isn't.

>god creating me is an active role on his part
To be fair, it was technically your dad cumming into your mom's vagina that determined how you were created.

>Believe Him, and do what is necessary to be saved: confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.
Want to. Can't.

Even then, god still set in course the actions that caused my birth and my damnation to hell.

His fault, still not my choice.

For him to know everything that will happen there needs to be a set path, meaning that it's not my choice at all.

"God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies." -Nahum 1:2 KJV

>god still set in course the actions that caused my birth and my damnation to hell
But literally everything you do from your birth onwards is your own choice, your creation was your parents choice, hell, even the beginning of man itself was evolutions choice. Did God have a guiding hand in it every step of the way? Absolutely, but that just means we have even less of an excuse to reject him because he tries to turn us towards him.

>Everyone gets what they want.
>What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is it's blatantly dishonest. Going to hell would never count as "getting what [you] want" except in a pedantic, meaningless, word twisting sense of what wanting is. It'd be like dropping someone off a bridge because they said five years ago that they didn't want to be with you. Yes, you technically made it so that they were separated from you thus granting them their wish, but you also did something to them that they definitely didn't want which is falling to their death.

Yes, it's conceivable many people wouldn't want to be with God. But no, this doesn't mean these people want to experience the worst pains and sufferings imaginable for all eternity. Nobody would want that. It's retarded anyone still makes that argument, I know you know it's bullshit.

>Jesus' miraculous birth, sinless life, miracle filled ministry, prophecy, fulfilled prophecies in the hundreds, and resurrection from the dead suffices as evidence Jesus is God.

>Jesus totally fulfilled all of these prophecies
>look it says right here in these texts written by people who wanted to show that Jesus fulfilled all of these prophecies

>T. Anselm

Ask for God's assistance, because it is required.

Or admit you don't want to.

You still aren't getting it through your thick head:

If god knows everything, there can't be any deviation from the path. Meaning it was all predetermined.

I don't understand.

If you don't want to go to hell, choose to go to heaven.

If you don't want to go to heaven, choose to go to hell.

>It'd be like dropping someone off a bridge because they said five years ago that they didn't want to be with you
But there is no non-bridge place without God in this context. There is no conceivable location that doesn't have God's presence without being as miserable as Hell.

>Absolutely, but that just means we have even less of an excuse to reject him because he tries to turn us towards him.
You have to admit that for a being that's supposedly omnipotent, he's doing REALLY terrible job at that. The fact that majority of people still aren't Christians is pretty much all evidence anyone should need to prove that Christianity isn't true, or at least doesn't tell the whole story.

You're confusing predetermination with foreknowledge. One does not imply the other.

>If you don't want to go to hell, choose to go to heaven

I have hundreds of different faiths and sects telling me how to go to heaven.

Only one can be right, and you expect me to KNOW which is right?

Wow you are one brainwashed fuck.

It was all foreknown.

Not predetermined.

Huge difference. Denying your status as a free will moral agent does not prevent you from being a free will moral agent. And you can believe the truth, that God gave you a choice, or you can believe the lie, that you cannot be saved.

Your choice.

(What if God always knew that He would save you today?)

Humans assume that God is good because humans are stupid monkeys who cant view things outside of a good or evil compass, God is an amoral being the reasons behind hell existence is as simple as BECAUSE HE CAN.

Yes there is, because God is omnipotent and he can do whatever he wants.

Humans are really sinful creatures. We've known this for a very long time now.

Nobody wants to go to hell. You can't honestly believe anyone sits there going "yeah, I'd love to experience the worst suffering imaginable for all eternity." You're conflating wanting to live your life doing things you enjoy and not believing in a god or accepting one as your savior with wanting to go to hell. Those are two different things, which is obvious because many people want the former and literally no one wants the latter.

Predetermination does not imply foreknowledge, but foreknowledge surely implies predetermination.

If I KNOW what will happen, it is destined to be.

But all good things come from God. To ask God to create a location without his presence but with good things is basically asking God to leave the room but stay in the room.

So either God did terrible job creating humans, or he's doing terrible job showing us the right path, or both.

An omnipotent being would have no problem doing it.

God is not omnipotent, he made a universe that is not omnipotence or anywhere near close to it.