Was the destruction of gender roles inevitable in the West, or was it a directed effort? Up until the 60s most women were taught to be housewives, and then it seems like society just decided to throw them into the work force. Even then a good deal of women preferred not to work but once a critical mass was achieved it was impossible to resist.
I just want a nice girl with a liberal arts education to keep house and be my companion, but they all fell for the career meme.
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or you could be the stay at home mom (male) with the liberal arts degree
She doesn't even have to be a mom. I just am fascinated at how feminine women used to be compared to what they are now. If you were a middle class man in the 19th century you got a woman who was raised to be obedient to her husband and understood her place was in the home. They didn't get offended if you wanted to take care of them.
In comparison today most women are trying to be as manly as possible.
Pretty sure females are still the only ones that can give birth.
I don't know about "inevitable", but there were reasons why it happened that had nothing to do with ideology.
Inventions like the microwave, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, etc. mechanized a huge amount of what was traditionally women's work. All of the sudden you have all these women who have more and more free time to do "manly" things like office work (lol).
the jews did it, OP. This plan has been in place for a long time.
>society just decided to throw them into the work force.
I'm pretty sure those two massive wars had something to do with it too.
Capitalism was going to exploit that labor pool sooner or later.
>"Up until the 60s most women were taught to be housewives, and then it seems like society just decided to throw them into the work force."
>Hurrdurr women did not work until the modern period
Traditional societies (read: agrarian) had everyone pitching at work. Men, women, and toddlers once they could walk.
Only time women got off the labor force is when they're pregnant or caring for a small baby.
AFAIK the only traditional society that didn't allow their women to work were *semitic.* Considering how Ar*bs and Jews were autistic about how off-limits their women are to strangers.
>he thinks women aren't evil by nature and it's just society corrupting them
You're an idiot.
I agree to an extent but it's not like the microwave itself obliterates women's traditional place in society.
this desu
it won't be long until waifubots are real and women realize that men no longer have any use for them
Besides, rich and middle class women already had servants doing all that for them anyway. They still didn't get jobs- they focused on "accomplishments" like playing the piano, drawing etc, or creating a nice home environment, or in some cases volunteering.
Traditional Jewish society has women working, usually at handicrafts and the like.
With pornhub having such a huge inventory, there is already much less of use for women, in a sexual factor.
Pretty irreversibly by-product of Enlightenment thinking. There's no strong argument why the Natural rights extolled by liberal thinkers shouldn't extend to Women.
Whats inevitable is men replacing women.
Traps are better lovers than real women.
Women realize what's coming and if we aren't ready they'll exterminate us before we do it to them.
A lot of men were absolute shit at caring for their women, which is why they had to go to work in the first place.
If a dude were to lose his job or get a demotion, all of a sudden the women had to suffer as well.
Not to mention the self sufficiency that having a career leaves a person with. With the rampant physical abuse that was common in disciplining wives, there was no way for a woman to escape that environment.
The times are much better now for both men and women. If you can't believe that, then you are most likely inadequate.
I know a number of women in their 30s who dream of being stay at home moms. Its girls in their 20s that still want to work
>I just want a nice girl with a liberal arts education to keep house and be my companion
"I just want a nice starved pitbull with rabies I could safely leave with my children."
Yep, once their cunt is beat out and they start getting old they find some thirsty beta to settle down with.
thisI'll exampled on it though:
It was no longer viable thanks to technological breakthrough and the fact that education became so commonplace for everyone imo.
Back in the day, except if you were very rich and had numerous servants or slaves like the Romans, house work was quite a task. "Taking care of the home" was actually a real 9-5 job before modern conveniences for the average woman. It could take 8 hours to do all chores in and around the house years ago when humans first started living as farmers. Tasks that now take about 2 these days maybe 3-4 in the 60s.
Food prep took the entire day: cut the fire wood into the fireplace that the men would bring home, clean the game. Then there is the fact women also had to make and mend clothing for the family and depending on how primitive we are talking, they also spent the day basket weaving from grass. There was also hand washing laundry, making butter, and soap from animal fat and leftovers. MAJOR factor was infant mortality where women had to have a shit load of kids to make sure at least a few survive. Lower class families needed this the most to make sure they also has helping hands for survival and chores.
This all changed by the early 1950s with modern appliances. Even by the turn of the century infant mortality was quite low. Don't need to pump out 5-10 kids anymore and chores are made super easy means now all women, even the average ones have more time on their hands. They are also more educated and by then it was pretty much proven that most women had what it takes to do pretty well in most of the same subjects boys were doing.
I say it was inevitable that most women as a group became board with being house wives and felt a bit under appreciated that they had to be relegated to such mundane tasks that could easily be done in a couple of hours.
That's my main theory anyway. That and the fact they got the vote. But like I said, considering all these changes it was inevitable.
it was socially engineered, but enabled through the economics surpluses such as home appliances which decimated housework and made work less laborious and in the reach of women ie office jobs.
Take for example the industrializing muslim world, they have the material imports from the west, but the socio-culture baggage is at bay from their clan control.
Teehee I'll be your dutiful housewife when I'm 35 and wrinkled and after I've had my fun with my HR career
The nuclear family was itself a destruction of traditional families and communities. It was formed out of economic influences, so it's hardly surprising that it changed when the economy did.
there was also the medical advances which kept the r**sties alive past childbirth. Deaths as a result of reproduction were atrocious and metal before the current era.
>AFAIK the only traditional society that didn't allow their women to work were *semitic.* Considering how Ar*bs and Jews were autistic about how off-limits their women are to strangers.
Beduoin women work and did work. It's only when 'Arab' became synonymous with 'upper class aristocrat' that there developed a distinct culture of sheltering women from the 'indignity' of menial labor. Over time that seeped into the identity of all who considered themselves Arab of all classes.
I'm doing pretty good but I can't help but be jelly of how good men had it back in the day.
You basically got a real life Stepford Wife.
I like how you're a materialistic determinist, try to think what will happen to women once we start mass producing cheap artificial wombs.
Was the transition from the traditional family to the nuclear family seen as just being a natural transition or was it more rebellious, ie against the families/parents wishes?
Rich women doing this wasn't the problem. They were the only ones before the turn of the century and mod 1850s. But now suddenly you have every women from every social class with absurd amounts of time on her hands? The fact the middle class actually started having this same leisure time one relegated only to the 1% too is partially what me and user are talking about. The inevitable downfall of this love domesticity for women as a group.
seeThe women dying in child birth wasn't the main issue though. It was the number of kids just dying. Yeah quite some women died but many more survived. I would say over all it was a good thing child birth became safer so children and husbands wouldn't have to lose their wives that way. Pretty traumatic don't you think?
And "r**sties?"
1 in 4 were subject to maternal mortality. The cuntification of the world wrought upon by white knight physicians is an unexplored topic.
But infant mortality was 50% so...you see the main problem her.
>cuntification of the world wrought upon by white knight physicians is an unexplored topic.
Huh?
You seem like a spiteful little creature. pic related
I'm sure if you were born in those time, unless you were truly a psychopath, you wouldn't be edgy enough to delight in the fact that your mom is now dead giving birth to your second sibling.
Women dying in childbirth is a fetish of mine
Get help, user. Get help...
Nigga you on Veeky Forums what did you expect? Some user posts Anne Frank doujins here
>tfw you'll never encounter a 100% domestically focused woman who will let you take care of her who isn't an LDS Tier home schooled retard
I love this place.
Why are 4chink autists so obsessed with women being obedient housewives? Honestly the only reason I can think of is insecurity. Good luck trying to convince a girl to quit her job/studies to be a ''''''''''traditional wife''''''''.
See Traditional housewives are a meme, they were always whores.
They want a mommy who will take care of them after their real mommy does, also one they can fuck whenever they feel like it.
And yet women were statistically happier being housewives their entire life than this weird androgynous creature they are today.
I like the idea of having a loving, pure wife that I'm responsible for and can guide through life. It's a mutually reciprocal thing.
>mommies taking care of anything
Nice meme. Women do nothing but abuse and kill their children.
Who cares about female happiness?
No, we're reaching peak liberal capitalism. Women are being forced to work when they never had to in the past just to keep a family unit above water, meanwhile more and more immigrants are being imported to make up for shortfalls in productivity.
Obviously, this whole system has eventually got to reform or collapse.
>Women are being forced to work when they never had to in the past just to keep a family unit above water,
This is what interests me
>Women are being forced
Stop dreaming.
>Women are being forced to work when they never had to in the past
women have always worked you retard
Again, no. From the Victorian era to about the 70s married women were stigmatized from working. Marriage bars were a thing for a reason you know.
Unless you're upper middle class, women either have to work or not have kids.
This was not the case for most of human history.
Women will be always provided for in one way or another. Even fucking food stamps are almost exclusively issued to women, if you're a man you have very little chance of getting them even if you're fuck poor. The entire system is rigged in favor of women.
>This was not the case for most of human history
Only upper class women didn't work, historically. Lower class women always worked.
>we wuz laborers n shiet
the ones that weren't being taken care of (because they were mentally ill or ugly or their husband abused them or what have you) realized they could help themselves, and other women who were unfulfilled (because their husbands were cheating on them or what have you) saw they could choose the same then, and other women who didn't really want to be taken care of (your strong independent tomboy types) saw they could also choose the same, and after a while the pressure of those groups caused more men to be less providing which created a whole class of women who needed something more
also education, free time, concurrent equality movements, capitalism, wars, etc.
I can't tell if you're genuinely retarded or just pretending.
People that think structural evolutions in society are the result of directed efforts by some cabal are just too stupid to study history
The destruction of gender roles is inevitable in any society that reaches a certain level of development and intellectual freedom, or falls into a deep enough crisis. Don't forget, it was the wars that first thrust women into working and doing more than shitting out kids. Gender roles are ultimately a meme. Women ARE physically weaker but unless it's 1v1 unarmed combat against a man, the difference is negligible.
see
The vast majority of people marry not to have children, but for companionship of a more or less equal partner, we're hard wired to want to live with a woman. I don't know what'll happen but you can be certain it won't be what you wish for in your revanchist cuck/mgtow fantasies.
Wishful thinking Amanda.
Irrelevant to my post
Nah. You can't make people want what you want. That unless you want to go full communist, tho. :^)
Yeah, the American, French, and Bolshevik revolutions just happened spontaneously.
>it's a "biological differences between the sexes don't exist" episode
How will they like women if there will be no women around?
This is a pretty easily researched subject.
t. absolute fucking retard
Great another edge master who hates apathetic towards all women
>All women are evil because my mommy with bipolar disorder/alcoholism used to beat me. Or my one girlfriend was a bitch whore who treated me like shit.
Great this shit tier argument again. Look up the number of women who graduate with degrees from Harvard or something (usually in something bullshit like history or sociology and see how many become stay at home moms/mostly stay at home. There was a feminist article complaining about it. in reality though, Women have never had more of a choice than today to decide if they want to work or not.
It's usually the girls who put themselves into debt majoring in b.s that realize they should probably become a stay at home mom instead.
, I'm with user the average( a.ka. low class women) always worked until the technological advancements that lead to more leisure time and a LARGE % of middle class that began in the time period you'e referencing the fall of gender roles.
Or you can be like this idiot and assume a lack of gender roles in the future thanks to technological advances today, meant that the sexes are the same and that gender roles were never useful. Or somehow, anyone in this thread except for tumblrfeminists with no knowledge of basic anatomy, some how are assuming this.
tfw no dress wearing domestic angel waifu
>The vast majority of people marry not to have children
In western societies?
Women are needed to maintain human populations. Like it or not, we can't just get rid of woman.
You know, there are more women than you think who are still interested in being housewives, even in this country. Some probably have a personal/mental problem with being super reliant and dependent on others but nonetheless would thrive in being your house wife.
>t.r/Veeky Forums
There was already a trend towards more equality for noblewomen in Europe around the last third of the Middle Ages, but contact with muslims reversed that quickly as they did not consider it proper for women to be in the same room as men.
Saudi Arabia seems to have the right idea with the male guardian system.
>Up until the 60s most women were taught to be housewives, and then it seems like society just decided to throw them into the work force.
Incorrect.
Yes we can get rid of them, we can also make egg cells from your skin. They are no longer needed because they are cancerous lifeforms who cant seem to work their primal purpose.
My grandmother literally never worked a day in her life. She married my grandpa at 18 and had her first kid by 19. She got to live an upper class housewife lifestyle and he got a submissive wife who waited on him hand and foot.
I really fucking hate boomers sometimes.
It's like you just refuse to pay attention to any of the arguments in this entire thread. Why did you even make it when you knew you had no intention to learning from or at least reading other view points? Admit it, you just wanted to circle jerk about how terrible all women are because many got tired of being house wives and it was "all ideology and JEWS."
Fuck off.
>crtl+f for 'jew'
>only 5 results
I'm impressed.
Did you skip the WW2 lecture? Feminism goes back much farther than the 60s
>yeah, the American, French, and Bolshevik revolutions had nothing to do with economic problems or societal divisions or anything it was just a few guys in a smoky room saying 'lol let's overthrow the government haha'
second wave feminism ie the 60s was explicitly about wagecuck women, The prelude being the world wars where women had to occupy the workforce space of men while they were off dying in France, but women's "economic emancipation" through the workforce and welfare state can be truncated to the 60s.
This. Also modern studies (tel-aviv 2015, yes I know triple parentheses etc, blah blah blah) show that for basic neural architecture, most brains don't fall into a clearly defined male/female dichotomy, which means that a lot of the shit on gender etc must be cultural, even if there is the obvious hormonal input. This fucking blew me away and completely changed my feelings on the subject. You should also remember that a fuckload in modern gender roles is elightnement onwards - women were far more educated in earlier periods, and arguably had a strong role in the emergent middle class of the late 1400s onwards.
I personally see the traditional gender roles as a tremendous waste of talent. Enid Blyton had scientific theories that were later proven to be completely right laughed out of the academy due to her being a woman, so she had to write about fucking rabbits, and I'm sure the same can be said for so many others. It disgusts me to think of how humanity's progress has been potentially stymied by essentially male insecurity.
You want a dull fucking moron blathering about pretty dresses and children and doing her hair makeup all the time? Men who want to spend most of their time with a bland intellectual inferior bemuse me.
>citation needed
T. Leddit Nu-Male
Bcuase they're intrinsically threatened by women and want one they can easily control/subdue. They also substitute the percieved deficiencies of modern society for their own obvious failings, in character more than looks, and funnel this into a sense of false superiority over being 'red-pilled' or somehow seeing through the gauze of the modern era.
Source: I used to be like this, until I took a hard look at myself and started challenging my own conceits.
how do you feel about Trumpcare not covering your retrovirals?
>You want a dull fucking moron blathering about pretty dresses and children and doing her hair makeup all the time? Men who want to spend most of their time with a bland intellectual inferior bemuse me
You'll find it's the most idiotic men that want such shallow and idiotic wives. Best let them have them no? They're made for each other and deserve to be in blissful[ignorance] together. Besides,it leaves room for more intelligent men and women to get together.
I'd be amazed if the same wasn't true of men - ie. parents who spend more time bringing up their children (as men and women both would have largely done before industrialisation) feel more satisfied about life.
With the male suicide rate what it is, I'm sure the sheer disconnect between a lot of professional men and the lives of their children contributes. The lack of paternal influence, even in 2 parent families, is also something I think contributes to mental health issues/general degenerate behaviour.
I'm odd in that I fucking hate modern society, but that I see the issues with it as starting far before the 1950s housewife thing and not necessarily being reconciled by any return to tradition. I think a lot could be solved simply by a vast reduction in working hours for adults with higher pay (more jobs, more time with children, more time for parenting = often better for child as less reliance on shitty childcare = better society overall). I also think mindless promiscuity and gender politics is a gigantic problem.
I don't think revanchist is the word you're looking for.
This, marry the 36 year old bi, feminist, BLM feminist activist with 7 cats. Real men want real women.
In uk so we actually have first world healthcare.
See here for some of what I believe. I'm very odd politically and I doubt what you'd expect from that post.
Women were NOT taught to be housewives before the 60s. Women didn't just sit on their asses for most of history. The idea of a housewife was mainly a thing in the 50s in those boring ass suburban homes. Women worked in factories in industrialized nations during the industrial age. And before they moved to cities, they worked on the land too in addition to raising children and cleaning the house. This thread is idiotic.
Actually wanting women to stay at home is correlated with higher incomes and intelligence. Middle class women used to be raised as homemakers/ companions with a decent background in the arts, music, literature etc. I don't want some girl coder xDD to talk about work stuff with; I want someone to have fun with and who isn't obsessed with wagecucking.
Have fun being yet ANOTHER career woman who hangs herself because Chad won't call her back.
and said roasties got ROASTED
Wow, user could it be that the ones who become stay at home moms...actually wanted to become stay at home moms?
And of course working gets stressful; it all depends on your field and if you have a passion for that field. Most women actually tend to get jobs they have a passion for/make a difference in people's lives.
FOr that reason, I'm curious to know what types of jobs the women in the population of those who work had that made them less happy...wait...there wasn't even a control group with women who worked?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
literal /pol/ teir garbage study.
SO basically my first hunch was correct. There is no way to prove that this isn't just a result of women who actually decide to become stay at home moms actually liking it because they wanted it for themselves in the first place.
Not saying it is a bad thing of course, but all it proves is that women are individuals and should be allowed to choose what they want with their lives. Feminists do not hate stay at home mom's just the idea that every women should be forced to be one.
See here I despise gender politics as ludicrous, but I think gender is overly simplistic - I don't think there are distinct categories for all of the snowflake versions. I have essentially conservative politics when it comes to sex/relationships and I personally don't have sex without love, inside a longterm relationship with a view towards eventual marriage and only date women who are the same. I think that's not necessarily the same for everyone, but I think it is better for the vast majority, and that most promiscious people are deluded into it by a corporate media that attempts to trivialise all human relationships. I am an atheist, but I despise militant atheism and think religion has helped humanity as much as it has hindered. I'm very difficult to categorise.