Has SEA historically been influenced by India more? Or China more?

At least in Indonesia, more India, hinduism has been a thing for a long time over there, lot of clear indian influence (literature especially).
Then later, Arab traders also had major influence.
In southeast asia in particular, it varies.
Vietnam certainly has more chinese influence, at least in language considering the Han annexed a part of it.
Otherwise, Indian influence trumps China.

I'd say India.
>hinduism, buddhism and islam all reach SEA from or via India
>malacca etc historically important because it was a waypoint between the Indian ocean and China
But like said, the Chinese influence is more obvious on the mainland.

Formerly India. Khmers, indonesians, borneans, and Filipinos were indianized. Vietnam was sinafied. Then Arab culture became dominant after some of the Malaysian and Indonesian kings converted to Islam.

Mainland SEA =China. Island SEA = India.

no, the only thing china influenced in the mainland was vietnam while the rest was hindu/buddhist

Racially, China
Culturally, India

People tend to forget that the southern part of Vietnam was hindu under the chams for centuries

I thought Vietnamese was Austroasiatic, not Sino-Tibetan.

>southern part of Vietnam was hindu under the chams for centuries
Which Vietnam destroyed and absorbed into their Sinic-style Empire.

Burmese and some Thai-Lao ethnics are Sino-Tibetan

Philippines = China due to the Chinese traders and pirates, I don't recall learning about any Indian influence

We're talking about the overal influence of India on SEA. I agree that Vietnam anno 2017 has more in common with China, definitely, but if we're looking to the territory that is considered Vietnam today and watch it for all of its history I think the result is pretty even

Philippines are more Pacific islanders than Indian or China

Yes.

Depends on the time period, place, and context. I work in Cambodia so I'll use it as an example. In terms of Indian influence, the language derives it script from Pali and borrows words reserved for speaking about Buddhism and the monarchy from Sanskrit and Pali. Religiously, the official religion of Angkorean Cambodia was before Buddhism. Both faiths originating in India.
As for Chinese influence, many Khmer people have Chinese ancestors. Some as recent as WW2, some centuries ago. Chinese ancestor veneration is practiced by them and Chinese New Year is celebrated along with other days that commemorate ancestors. Teochew, Cantonese and other dialects are still spoken by some Sino Chinese, especially older folks. Some words from the dialects have creeped into khmer language but the influence isn't as palpable as the Indic one.
Politically, Cambodia is very much under the thumb of china today. They're the biggest provider of aid and Cambodia supports them in their territorial disputes with various ASEAN states in exchange for aid.

Sorry for not indenting. I'm on my phone and my hands are wet. Rainy season in full effect

These are largely correct. Vietnam, especially the northern half, was definitely more influenced by China than India. They wrote with a version of Chinese characters for a very long time, and borrowed a HUGE amount of words from Middle Chinese.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Xenic_pronunciations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_Chinese_literary_culture

The rest of Southeast Asia has traditionally been more influenced by India, thanks to the spread of Hinduism, Sanskrit and the Indic Scripts.

With the exception of Vietnam and the Philippines, India has been far more influential over SEA.

>Philippines
they Chinese?

>Pacific Islanders
not sure if bait but flips are more asian than pacific islanders

Regarding cultural sphere, they're closer to pacific islanders

lots of chinese, arabic, indian influence in the philippines before the spanish.

Philippines should not even be included
In this topic

Pirates don't count and China is very isolationist
How I wish we had that culture, really

Only in few areas, most of Philippine consist of mountain - coastal tribes similar to Polynesians and Taiwanese Aborigines

flips only became culturally distant from the rest of SEA when they were colonized. before that they were more SEAn than now

by that shouldn't indons and malays also be pacific islanders? they all austronesians anyway

Malays are heavily Indianised and later minorly Sinitised, perhaps at the same level as Mon-Khmers and at the same level of Chams after Islamisation
Don't know much about Indons (Indonesians?) but considering they have many large Buddhist ruins and pockets of Hinduism like Bali its probably similar

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tondo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma-i
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Sulu
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majapahit
>Mindanao, Sulu Archipelago and some parts of the Visayas islands as under Majapahit realm of power
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajahnate_of_Cebu
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namayan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madja-as
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_pre-colonial_Philippines#Hinduism

Actually the mountian tribe culture is the minority

We don't have our own records to prove this.

prove what?

We wuz kangz and majapahit and shet

>Filipinos
>Pacific Islanders
Californian Peenoise detected.

This place is Asian. Stop pretending to be a special snowflake.

As far as peninsular Malaysia is concerned, the Malacca Sultanate was a tributary state and protectorate of the Ming dynasty who gave them protection from other powers like Thailand and the Majapahit. Malacca was one of the stops for Admiral Zheng He's treasure fleet mission, and the Malacca Sultan visited China to pay tribute to the Ming emperor. One of the Sultans of Malacca later married a Chinese woman, Princess Hang Li Po, and a wave of Chinese settlers intermarried with the locals and formed the Peranakan community.

The Chinese were also later hostile to the Portuguese in part in response to the Portuguese conquest of Malacca.

>The Portuguese conquest of Malacca enraged the Zhengde Emperor of China when he received the envoys from the exiled Sultan Mahmud.[53] The furious Chinese emperor responded with brutal force, culminating the period of three decades of prosecution of Portuguese in China.
>Among the earliest victims were the Portuguese envoys led by Tomé Pires in 1516 that were greeted with great hostility and suspicion.[54] The Chinese confiscated all of the Portuguese property and goods in the Pires embassy's possession.[55] Many of the envoys were imprisoned, tortured and executed. Pires himself was said among those who died in the Chinese dungeons.[56] Two successive Portuguese fleets bound for China in 1521 and 1522 were attacked and defeated in the first and second Battle of Tamao.
>In response to Portuguese piracy and the illegal installation of bases in Fujian at Wuyu island and Yue harbour at Zhangzhou, Shuangyu island in Zhejiang, and Nan'ao island in Guangdong, the Imperial Chinese Right Deputy Commander Zhu Wan exterminated all the pirates and razed the Shuangyu Portuguese base, using force to prohibit trading with foreigners by sea.[57] Moreover, Chinese traders boycotted Malacca after it fell under Portuguese control, with some Chinese in Java even assisting in Muslim attempts to invade the city.
lordy

but we wuz rajahs and huangs and shiet

Some of the sources are questionable and don't even work anymore.

It also seems like a lot of blanket assumption as we are an archipelago and even within an island for example not everything that happened in Pangasinan happened in Bicol

fine. i guess the majapahit and some of the links were pretty dubious but flips are more asian than pacific islanders.

We're talking culturally, not necessarily linguistically.

...

Myanmar here, which you could see as being a mix of Chinese and Indian influences, the same way you might see the UK as being a mix of Scandinavian and French influences.

You've also got to consider how influential the Mon-Khmer were with regards to Buddhism and Pali being brought in.

Politically, China has a lot more influence, although the cancellation of the Myitsone dam was a huge shock to them.

>Indian

whoops, sorry didn't mean to leave india hanging.

As far as the religion goes, Thais seem to have an affinity with hinduism, as a sort of "older" religion, you can see ethnic Thais going to some hindu temples in Bangkok and getting a tikka, etc. That doesn't really happen in Myanmar and there's quite a bit of racism against indians and muslims.

>Burma, Thailand, Cambodia is POOED as fuck.
You forgot Laos as well.

so India, if you include Indian muslims

>That doesn't really happen in Myanmar and there's quite a bit of racism against indians and muslims.
Not very related but Myanmar, alongside Singapore is one of the only two ASEAN countries not to recognize Palestine.
How's the relation between Muslims and the Buddhist-majority countries?

Muslim (((traders))) were a mistake

Flips are more Mexican than anything else. Every real "Asian" (read Sinocentric) culture looks down on them as backwards darkskin savages.

Do you use a proxy? When I was in Cambodia/Thailand a couple months ago I couldn't post to Veeky Forums, and it implied the country was IP-banned.

This map needs to include Madagascar :-/

How do they relate to southeast Asia?

What about food Veeky Forumstory? Why does SEA cuisine seem to be more chinese influenced? Was it because indian spices were unavailable?

Malagasy came from Borneo.

Did they bring the Hindu with them?

They came in ancient time, when Austronesians still followed their indigenous religion.

WHO /kratom/ HERE

I get banned on my phone a lot. I'm a lurker so it's fine. I only use mobile data in the village I stay in. I just use my laptop for work in the village. Tropical environments do a number on computers. I have no clue why the country is IP banned. I can't imagine most people here aside from tourists or expats working would even go on Veeky Forums.

I can speak about Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam in that regard. All three countries have certain dishes that are influenced by Chinese cuisine and introduced by Chinese immigrants. But cuisine in these three countries really makes use of fermented fish paste in soups and also as dips with vegetables like cucumbers or eggplants. I'm not sure if some regions of China have the same affinity for fermented fish paste as here but it's certainly unique. I call it the Cheese of the Orient.

The Sultanate of Melaka which controlled Malaya was a vassal of the Chinese Ming dynasty, when the Portuguese conquered them the Chinese threw a shitfit and made life as difficult as possible for Portuguese envoys and traders in revenge.

See for yourself.

The following images are taken from the so-called "Boxer Codex," which is an Ethnographic Atlas commissioned by Spanish authorities in the Philippines during the 1570s to summarize the cultures, histories, and appearances of people living in Southeast Asia & China, with particular focus on Native Filipinos (who were their subjects) and the Chinese (who were the focus of Spanish trade in the region).

The book resembles a typical European codex with two notable exceptions: it is made of bamboo paper because the primary supplier of writing materials in the Philippines were the Chinese, and its artist is highly suspected to be a Filipino-Born Chinese convert who is highly familiar with both European and Chinese style of painting. The figures were Chinese-style, but the border is typical European codex stuff.

It starts of with the inhabitants of what is today, Guam, whom the Spanish called "Ladrones (Thieves)" because when Magellan stopped there to replenish his supplies, some of the local Chamorros (the natives of Guam) stole some of his small boats.

Another Ladron

The following images are of people living in what is now the Philippines, who are of especial interest in this atlas.

First up: a Cagayan Princess, from the people living in the Cagayan River Valley, Northern Luzon island.

A Cagayan Warrior.

People that the Spanish called "Negrillos/Negritos" (Little Negros, literally), who were basically the first people to settle in Insular Southeast Asia before the ancestors of Flips/Malaysians/Indonesians came in and dominated the place.

These live all over the Philippines, with the most notable group being the Aeta people in Luzon island.

The Zambal. An animist people living also in Northern Luzon, following their displacement by the seafaring Tagalogs.

Zambals hunting and performing augury on a water buffalo.

A Zambal Couple

These following images are of the Visayans, a blanket term for tribes and kingdoms who live in the dense island groupings in the middle of the Philippines and spoke the same language: Visaya, and who were some of Spain's first subjects in the region considering they first landed in the Philippines there.

These are Visayan warriors whom the Spanish called Pintados (Painted Ones) for their tattoos.

Visayans belonging to the Timawa (a warrior-middle class of sorts) social caste.

Visayan royalty.

Visayan royalty. The earlier royalty were probably Visayan muslims, with these ones being from the Indianized Kingdoms in the Visayas region.

The next image are of a people labelled "Naturales (de Luzon)" or "Natives (of Luzon.)" Composed primarily of the Tagalogs whose kingdoms and tribes make up the biggest ethnic group in the Luzon island in Northern Philippines.

Tagalog common women.

By this point in time many in Luzon have converted to Islam. Considering the vast sway Later Islamic empires and states in Indonesia and Borneo used to have in Insular Southeast Asia.

Tagalog royalty.

Also by this point, Spain was making headway in ruling over the Tagalog bits of the Luzon island, meaning some of the people in these pictures depict their colonial subjects.

A Tagalog couple of the Maginoo (warrior-gentry) Class.

The next images depict people living outside the Philippines and Spanish ruled territories.

A couple from Borneo.

A couple from the once-mighty Sultanate of Brunei, which used to hold an empire that covered all of Borneo and had colonies in the Philippines.

A Bruneian aristocratic lady.

A warrior from Malacca, an influential trading port and famous in 16th Century Insular Southeast Asia as a huge manufacturer of firearms.

Muslims

A warrior from the states of Java. Possibly a nobleman.

Note the imported Japanese swords this one is wearing.

A warrior from the Iranun. A seafaring seminomadic people famous for being pirates in Insular Southeast Asia.

Warriors from Siau, a small Island Kingdom in the Celebes Sea, between what is now Indonesia and the Philippines.

A Siamese couple from what is now Thailand. A kingdom in the rise as middlemen in the SEAsian trading scene. Although frequently fucked up by the warlike Burmese.

Japanese. Most specifically Japanese immigrants and exiles found all over Southeast Asia. Driven to the region by trade, adventure, piracy, mercenary work, and the avoidance of wars in 16th Century Japan, they were a common sight especially amongst mercenaries in the region.

good shit, keep posting

A couple from "Caupchy," the Spanish rendering of the Vietnamese name: Giao Chi, or today Tonkin.

Tonkinese urbanites.

A couple fron "Canglan," Spanish for "Guang Nan." Another Vietnamese province. Possibly depicting Mandarin Scholar-Bureaucrat Aristocrats of the Vietnamese Empire.

Chams. Who by this point are complete subjects of the Vietnamese Emperor.

A Cheylam Couple. The Cheylam is the Spanish rendering of Keilang, an Aboriginal group in Formosa, today Taiwan.