Is Satan really evil?

If you take the time to analyse the old testament from the bible you can tell that god had all angels under his control (similar to slaves or on the styler of a very oppressive goverment) Satan was just an angel that opposed to that and confronted god and was kicked out of heaven for that so in theory satan was a revolutionary (could be considered a hero) that opposed an oppressive ruler (god)
So
I don't think satan was evil

What we think as Satan is a modern amalgation of several different biblical characters

Do go on. Which ones? What is the basis you're using for this statement?

Because the obvious conclusion is that satan can do nothing God does not allow satan to do, and satan continually wants to do evil.

Yes, of course he is. He's a liar, a thief, and a murderer from the beginning of the world. He prowls the earth like a wounded lion seeking those whom he can hurt and destroy. He's the most evil being ever.

Please spare us your King of Tyre and King of Babylon pretexts. satan is "Advesary", and refers to more than one being, yes. Even to Jesus, in the case of Balaam.

There is only one devil, one angel created higher than all the other angels, whose pride turned him into the devil.

>Because the obvious conclusion is that satan can do nothing God does not allow satan to do
Pretty much.

>and satan continually wants to do evil.
I don't see where you get this idea from. Satan continually tempts and sometimes even punishes mortals, but he's doing so under orders from the big guy upstairs.

He's not, actually.

Let's say I restrain a small person who only wants to hit you in the knee. For my own reasons, I want to see you hit in the knee. I don't have to do it myself; I only have to stop restraining the midget, and you get hit in the knee.

I didn't have to tell the midget what to do; he lives only to hit you in the knee.

Add a billion other ways for the midget to harm you, and a billion other ways I restrain him, and you start to get the idea.

satan is a free will agent; God does not tell him what to do. In Job's case, God was bragging about Job, and the devil made a series of conjectures that were all proven false. God didn't direct satan to do anything; He restrained him from doing what God did not want done.

You have to understand that the devil exists to give people an alternative to turning their lives over to God; to being adopted into God's family. The alternative is to have the devil as your father.

Not him, but the Satan in Job (just "the accuser), the serpent in Genesis (not connected to Satan until the New Testament), the "Son of the Morning" in Isaiah (actually referring to the king of Babylon), the adversary in 1 Chronicles 21:1, just to name a few.

...

All the exact same fallen angel.

>muh Promethean figure
Screw off with that garbage.

>not connected to Satan until the New Testament

You're kidding, right?

Holy crap 4 years goes by fast.

The original user you responded to. God is shaming Lucifer. There is permanent misery for God. You have to think of eternity when you think of God. Whatever happens in this momentary life. Is a sliver of infinity. The story depicts how God trusts his followers and thinks they are capable of staying faithful even in hard times. The devil thanks otherwise. Natural disasters, disease, bad decisions made through temptation happen. God didn't do anything but remind the devil that his weakness is more powerful than his strength. Job stayed faithful even in the most tragic of circumstances. The devil comes out a fool every time. Critics of the biblical God continually like to choose to see God as all powefull and without need or scheming with human thoughts. You don't understand theology, don't pretend like you do. Go do some actual research.

youtu.be/Ha5flTRTZWY

Nope, there is nothing in the entire Torah even indicating that the serpent was an angel, it was just some shitty animal that deceived Eve and got its legs cut off by God and was forced to crawl on the ground as a form of punishment. No bullshit about fallen angels.

>people literally think John Milton's fanfiction is a part of the Bible

Zechariah 3:1 Then he showed me the high priest Joshua standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, O Satan!

Genesis 6
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Yeah, nothing at all....

If God is Good, and you oppose Good, that makes you Evil.

What do they teach you children in school these days?

Ezekiel 28

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

Yeah, nothing at all...

What does that have to do with the serpent? That was something that happened long after Adam and Eve left Eden.

Not only that, people come out thinking Satan is a hero, when it's clear he's characterized by arrogance and resentment. He makes a nice romantic hero, but c'mon now, he has no nobility whatsoever.

Isaiah 14
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Not a peep.

>Ezekiel
>the Torah
You're a literal idiot.

Also
>The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says

Long after? How about "well within Adam and Eve's lifetime"? How about angel/human hybrids known as the Nephilim?

How about that?

By assuming the random person knows the difference between the torah and the tanakh?

Do you believe the prophets, or not?

Do you believe or not? Gee, that's in the torah. I guess you have to believe it, huh Jew.

*is no permanent

I'll take "What spiritual authority was over the temporal authority in Tyre?" for $600, Alex!

You're so fucking autistic you don't even read the verse.

Adam and Eve were exiled from the Garden; a cherub with flaming sword guards the entrance. Nobody after them has ever been in Eden.

READ, JEW, READ.

This entire post is so American I can actually smell the burger grease just reading your shit.

>the passage is literally prefaced with YOU WILL TAKE UP THIS TAUNT AGAINST THE KING OF BABYLON, making it explicitly clear who it refers to
>"Son of the Morning" / "Morning Star" was a common title for Middle Eastern kings (Jesus is also called "Morning Star" in Revelation 2:28 to denote his kingly lineage - are you implying Jesus is actually Satan?)
>it's literally denoted as a TAUNT - laughing at the pompous King of Babylon who thought he's a godly being, only to be smitten by Cyrus the Great, who the Jews considered an agent of the real God
>Isaiah is in the Tanakh, but not the Torah

It's the translation of Helel ben Shachar, Shining One, Son of the Dawn.

An angel.

In this case, a fallen angel.

Only the NIV calls satan the morning star, and it is an evil translation. Proper translation is Son of the Dawn.

It's all about the devil, your father. The spiritual power over Tyre, and the spiritual power over Babylon. The god of this world that the Synagogue of Satan worships. (That would include you.)

So your answer is no, you do not believe Moses and the prophets.

Just like the New Testament says.

according to her no

>Amerikike of all people calling anyone a jew
Some nerve, faggot.

No, Satan is acting by his nature and he has a vital role in the divine order.

We'll keep being #1, you keep being whatever it is that your shit country is on top of being a cautionary tale to the rest of us.

>The Advocatus Diaboli (Latin for Devil's Advocate) was formerly an official position within the Catholic Church: one who "argued against the canonization (sainthood) of a candidate in order to uncover any character flaws or misrepresentation of the evidence favoring canonization".[1]

>In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_advocate

Did you actually read his post? That shit you pasted doesnt prove that the serpent was an angel.

>In Eden

The word for serpent (not snake) shares its root with "enchanter". As even the wisest of beasts do not speak fluently with human beings, this creature is clearly supernatural.

There are only 5, count them, 5 people in Eden.

1. God
2. Adam
3. Eve
4. Serpent/Enchanter
5. Cherub guardian with flaming sword.

As the Jew does not have the luxury of knowing God's Word, and I do, his arguments that the devil was not the tempter, not the adversary, not the serpent, is ludicrous.

Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You can't take a Jew's word about the bible, torah, tanakh, OT, NT, anything. They've been blinded by God to not understand Moses and the prophets, and because they're still Jews, they clearly do not understand Yehoshua is the Jewish Messiah either.

They are a lost, arrogant, stubborn and stiff-necked people who would be facing utter annihilation at the hands of God, but for the promise God made to Abraham, and subsequently, that He would preserve a remnant of them in order to keep His word to Abraham.

>We'll keep being #1
Literally what every empire has ever said

"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. (Matthew 10:16)

You'll keep being #1 in the amount of nigger rapes and in the amount of Israeli dicks sucked, that's what you excel at.

>tfw you realize satan's role is to be eternally buttfrustrated

Yup, and when they said it, it was true.

Just like it's true for us, right now.

>The word for serpent (not snake) shares its root with "enchanter".
Not in Hebrew it doesn't. doitinhebrew.com/Translate/default.aspx?kb=US US&l1=en&l2=iw

And נחש does indeed mean snake.

>As the Jew does not have the luxury of knowing God's Word, and I do, his arguments that the devil was not the tempter, not the adversary, not the serpent, is ludicrous.

Great ad hominem there. Meanwhile, the rest of us are sitting around wondering why God punishes the snake with eternal enmity with man and the loss of limbs for something an angel does.

>Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
I love how you use a passage from Revelations to "prove" that a notion pre-existed the New Testament and Christians sticking their dicks in things.

>More ad homs.
Ok, let's play that game. You're a Christian, a group that's entire raison d'etre is to misinterpret Biblical texts. You are wrong.

Easy, Sweden. You'll get there.

Why does God punish the devil for his failed coup?

What King would not?

>the only countries I know are Sweden, Mexico and Israel

>keep being
>keep

Yay! More unwanted and idiotic Hebrew lessons from the Jew autist!

Genesis 3
And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made, and he saith unto the woman, `Is it true that God hath said, Ye do not eat of every tree of the garden?' And the woman saith unto the serpent, `Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we do eat, and of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden God hath said, Ye do not eat of it, nor touch it, lest ye die.' ...

Gee, that doesn't say snake. You should get a hold of the Young's Literal Translation people.

Or, you know, realize that snakes don't have legs. Or, you know, talk.

Sorry I have to beat up on your father, HaSatan, so much, but he deserves it.

Mexico is a food.

>As the Jew does not have the luxury of knowing God's Word
Literally the worst case of special pleading.

>There's an objectively right way to interpret the bibble, and only my church knows it because Jesus loves me more!

Leap into a pile of cowshit, fag.

Hey, unwanted teacher of bad Hebrew, why did you exclude nachash, saraph, and tannin from your lesson in bad Hebrew?

To pretend you had a point?

Just a bible verse dude.

2 Corinthians 3:14-15

But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

Special pleading come with a "for no good reason" clause. You know, for a reason.

Nope, you're a Christian, you're wrong about this and every other thing, because you're Christian.

נחש means snake, and everyone knows that.
pealim.com/dict/3338-nachash/
It also doesn't have anything to do with "enchanters", but of course we can't expect anything out of Christians. That's why they get all these translations wrong.

>Or, you know, realize that snakes don't have legs
Haven't read Genesis 3:14, have we? Oh that's right, you're CHRISTIAN, of course you haven't.

17 Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

>Too stupid to know that נחש IS "nachash".
Help me out here, were you retarded and that's why you became Christian, or did finding Christianity make you dumb?

>saraph, and tannin
Because it's not relevant to the point of disputing your nonsense claim that "Serpent=Enchanter" But I know that logical thinking is hard when you're a Christian, so I try to be patient.

Yes, I am a Christian. More descriptive than that, I am a born again Christian, and a YEC.

You say I'm wrong, God says I'm right.

Guess who matters?

tannin: serpent, dragon, sea monster
nachash: a serpent
saraph: serpent
[שָׂרָף] noun masculine
Isaiah 6:2 plural שְׂרָפִים seraphim (probably akin to I. ׳שׂ, as beings originally mythically conceived with serpents' bodies (serpent-deities, compare Isaiah 14:29; Isaiah 30:6), or (CheComm.) personified of lightning, compare arts.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with the devil, a cherub, huh. Nothing at all.

Kinda sucks that I can't learn anything from you, Jew. Not even Hebrew. You're just an enormous waste of time, and I won't even be there when your face melts with the glory of Yehoshua's second coming.

>reads Paradise Lost once

You sure about that? Seems like saraph has a lot to do with the devil. And nothing to do with a snake.

See, the words serpent, flying serpent, dragon, great dragon; they were all coined prior to the coining of the word "dinosaur".

There is no snake in the story of the Garden of Eden, Jew. You can't even get off on the right foot with God.

>Yes, I am a Christian. More descriptive than that, I am a born again Christian, and a YEC.
And thus you are wrong.

>You say I'm wrong, God says I'm right.
No, a retard named "Paul" says you're right, and you're dumb enough to believe him. Christians, as we defined, are wrong.

>Yeah, that has nothing to do with the devil, a cherub, huh. Nothing at all.
No, nothing to do with "Ha-Satan", because he's not a cherub. Nor would the punishment of ACTUAL snakes for his doings be just. But we both know you'll ignore this, because you're too dumb to understand the point (Christian).

וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙

Gee, that doesn't look like what you're posting, at all, from the torah.

Not at all.

>a literal kike arguing with some American fucktard over semantins in the 40 times retconned kike fanfiction
I'm more glad than ever I abandoned this shit.

I cited above where God called the devil a cherub. And of course if you knew the tanakh, which you do not, you would know that seraphim and cherubim are used interchangeably.

But you don't believe in aliens, do you Jew.

Just Jew gold.

>You sure about that? Seems like saraph has a lot to do with the devil. And nothing to do with a snake.
Nope. Because there is no such thing as "the devil", other than in your inbred fantasies, of course.

See, there's this really good system that you can use to tell if something is true

>Is it in the Bible?
>If yes, it's true.
>Is it in something that Christians made up and wasn't in the Bible before they wrote a bunch of retard books?
>No, then it's not true.
But alas, even such a simple system is too much for the tiny Christian brain.

>There is no snake in the story of the Garden of Eden, Jew.
You know, other than "Ha-Nachash" mentioned in 3:1, and punished in 3:14.

How can you abandon something you were never in?

wə·han·nā·ḥāš

More Jew lies.

I was raised Lutheran and I have a really solid knowledge of Biblical texts in multiple languages since I'm not a fucktard who can read the Bible only in some subhuman language like English.

nachash: to practice divination, observe signs
נָחַשׁ

Nothing to do with enchanter, eh Jew?

You could be able to read the bible in 200 different languages, and you still wouldn't have the slightest grasp of the truth of it.

nachash: to practice divination, observe signs
Original Word: נָחַשׁ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nachash
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-khash')
Short Definition: divination

HEB: וְה֕וּא נַחֵ֥שׁ יְנַחֵ֖שׁ בּ֑וֹ הֲרֵעֹתֶ֖ם
NAS: and which he indeed uses for divination? You have done wrong
KJV: and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil

Just a snake, huh.

If there's no devil, who is your father?

>my piss poor English translation of the already piss poor Vulgate and heavily redacted (((Masoretic text))) taught me everything I need to know

I've been quoting the Hebrew torah.

What have you been doing, other than proving for all to see that you have never been a believer, no matter what church you were raised in?

>Hebrew torah
AKA Masoretic garbage specifically canonized to omit possible references to Christianity.
Furthermore, why isn't Enoch considered canon in the Christian Bible? The Apostles quoted Enoch and the entire Angelic fuckery of the Revelation is beyond Enochian.

I bet you're one of those "real communism has never been tried" fellows.

Enoch's not canon because it is not inspired by God; in fact, Jude almost did not become canon because it quoted a paragraph from the pseudopigraphical forgery of Enoch.

Although the existing copies of the Masoretic Text date back only to the tenth century, two other important textual evidences bolster the confidence of textual critics that it is accurate. The first is the successive discoveries of manuscripts at Qumran by the Dead Sea since 1947. These revealed portions of manuscripts several centuries older than any previously known. The second is the comparison of the Masoretic text to the Greek translation called the Septuagint (or LXX), which was written around 200-150 B.C. The oldest existing manuscripts date back to the fourth century A.D. Both the Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal an amazing consistency with the Masoretic Text.

Why talk about Christianity when you don't know anything about it?

>I bet you're one of those "real communism has never been tried" fellows.
And how did you arrive at such conclusion? I'm actually curious about your answer considering I'm not even remotely a communist.

>Enoch's not canon because it is not inspired by God
Says who? You?

>younger sibling lying to the parents to get you into trouble

The true evil is an older sibling doing this act

"The Hebrew of the tanakh isn't the real Hebrew."

Pretty easy jump to make.

Says God. Someone you don't know. Someone who did not leave His Word up to chance, or up to the people who murdered His only begotten Son.

God never lies.
Satan always lies.

It's not difficult to pick whom to believe in any given situation.

Why don't you just choke the midget?

>Masoretic corresponds with the Septuagint
Do your kikefied "Christians" in America unironically believe this horseshit?

>Psalm 22:16
>Septuagint: Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
>Masoretic: Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
Oy vey, Masoretic changes a key reference to Jesus and you lap it up like a good goy.

>"The Hebrew of the tanakh isn't the real Hebrew."
The current Tanakh is some shit where all possible references to Jesus got redacted to fuck and back.

>Says God.
I didn't know God sat at the council of Nicaea.

Patience. The midget will be choked when his utility is zero.

Yes, a messianic psalm to describe what the Roman legion, mascot bull, did to Jesus on the cross. Both ways.

Again, as it corresponds with the Dead Sea scrolls, which are contemporaneous with the time of Christ, your assertion is invalid. So sorry, take nothing home, just leave.

>literally just explicitly proved that the Masoretic got rewritten to conceal Christian references as evidenced by a much earlier translation (Septuagint)
>"your assertion is invalid"
Are you a complete retard?

I never saw a bible that translated it "lion", and as the two words in Hebrew are only a slightly longer stroke away from each other, I can see how someone wanting to deny this is a messianic prophecy would change it.

I don't care how people changed things I don't rely on. I don't know what translation you read, but nothing I read says "lion".

It's lion in the Masoretic, you dumbass. The only reason most Christian bibles don't say lion is because they borrow from the Septuagint instead, or in the case of KJV, the Vulgate. And the Vulgate itself is a Jerome's shitty translation of the Septuagint and KJV retained some Vulgate's errors (like that Lucifer crap).

So, Christians took care to properly and accurately pen the bible.

Duly noted.

No clue what you're on about. I never championed the Masoretic text; that seems to be your bugaboo, not mine.