So in the United States we see a lot of state or regional pride with many people considering it to be distinct cultures...

So in the United States we see a lot of state or regional pride with many people considering it to be distinct cultures in their own right and which leads to them considering themselves as (state/region) first and American second. I have seen it grow lately as peoples cultural experiences diverge along with politics and bloodlines with the implication that these divergences may continue. Some fringe parts of the internet even call for secession of their particular state/region. These secession's are not likely but it does not seem out of the realm of possibility that the different regions of the U.S. would diverge enough to form distinct ethnic identities and small "nations" within the country with differences beyond the petty regional rivalries of states.

What I want to know, is this in any way a desirable situation? Is it at all beneficial for a country as large as the U.S. to allow itself to separate into distinct cultural units under the same government? I.E. is there any desirability for Californian/Cascadian/Dixiean/Texan to be actual ethicities/culture groups beyond political boundaries but still within the U.S. My gut says it would cause ethic strife but it would be interesting to see arguments otherwise. How would one prevent it, or foster it?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
dropbox.com/sh/xhu31t5yde4egfx/AACXPgFWGdRFLs8e6y4Z2ypwa?dl=0)
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

you are describing states

There is one thing that I don't understand about America, that people completely think in state lines rather than cultural lines. For example, Pittsburgh area is culturally pretty much identical to West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and eastern Ohio, yet those areas are think of as "others" while Philadelphia is thought of as "us". It boggles the mind because in most of Europe and the rest of the world this would be unheard of, people outside of America base their identity almost exclusively on ethnic, cultural and economic basis and not imaginary lines on the map.

I don't know if I am wording anything correctly. I am thinking more in terms of the differences between say, Scotland and Wales in the UK, which is much wider than Texan and California in the US. What are the consequences of allowing the differences between U.S. states/regions to reach the level of difference that the Scots and the Welsh or between the Cantonese and the Uyghurs ?

I'd strongly recommend the book "American Nations" by Colin Woodard. It really delves into the regional divided and their effects on American (and to a lesser extent Canadian and Mexican) history. The second half of the book, dealing with the 20th and 21st centuries gets weaker, but it's great at laying out how incredibly different cultures (in the deeper meaning of "culture", beyond food/language/etc) developed in different regions and profoundly influenced early Ameorcan history and our subsequent trajectory.

>New Mexico is Greater Appalachia
I don't know where to start with this garbage.

As a Maritimer I have no idea how we get grouped with New England or any part of the US. Except for maybe Northern Maine we're a lot more similar to Ontario or even Quebec.

The map isn't perfect, but come on, like 90% of NM is in the Far West and El Norte. Moreover, "Greater Appalacia" as he defines it is a cultural region (think fiercely independent "poor white trash"/feuding West Virginia folk values) that really doesn't have that much to do with the physical Appalachian mountain chain other than originating there. Thus it includes southern Ohio, north Texas hill country, etc. It's not inconceivable that that culture fills easternmost NM due to historical migration patterns, despite its physical distance from core Appalachia. Like I said though, the map and boundaries arent perfect. The book is worthwhile more for its central thesis and historical analysis.

The map is trash. I'm just gonna talk about the areas I'm actually familiar with:

How is San Antonio TX area even remotely culturally similar to central Pennsylvania?
How is Franklin county in Ohio (Columbus area) "Appalachian" while Morgan and Noble counties, which are physically in the middle of Appalachia are "Midlands"?
Anyone who came up with the New France moniker for New Orleans area has no idea what he's talking about, and lumping it together with Acadiana makes me think he only knows the place from movies.
The 4 Corners area is culturally distinct from the rest of the west because of native Americans. Apache county is 80% Amerindian so putting it in the same group as idk Boise Idaho is abominable.

>bumfuck Wisconsin/Minnesota
>anything at all like Chiraq
"No"

It would be terrible, a destruction of the Union, but that doesn't stop it from being interesting.
Map thread?

Oh! And Hawaii, PR, and our other territories would be independent. Probably PR and the US Virgin Islands together, with Micronesia joining Hawaii, and the Samoas uniting, or something.

Dumping images of US divided by population
Interestingly some of these match up with cultural borders

States lines are antiquated land titles. Administrative divisions should to be redivided along metropolitan lines.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

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I think the plains or the Mississippi river are the rough border between east and west although the Houston and Dallas are probably more similar to the rest of the gulf states than the South West.

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>Houston
Absolutely. It's the quintessential Gulf Coast city alongside New Orleans.

>Dallas
Dallas is basically midwestern.

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these three are for geographical OCD

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>Hawaii, PR and our other territories

What did he mean by this?

>incredible different
Laughing oldworlder.jpg

Here a template of North America that everyone can us for their Alt-His maps

Do you think this thread should be in /int/?

My problem with this map is that the cutoff lines seem arbitrary. For the example I know, why isn't San Bernardino County in "El Norte" when its most populous parts are part of the same continuous metro area as West Riverside County and East Los Angeles County.

>pittsylvania county, Virginia
>Appalachians

Fuck off. I have to drive like 2 hours and through 4 or 5 counties to get to the closest Appalachian mountain

But it's not tidewater or deep south either... This is a shit map

I hate dumb map threads

regards, an American that hates you

Thanks doc

Depends on how pessimistic one is. If you think America is heading for a Yugoslavia-style breakup along ethnic lines, then maybe a "peaceful divorce" is a good idea.

Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. territories (Samoa, Midway, Guam, nothern Mariana, etc)

>quintessential golf coast city
>only Houston and new Orleans
No Tampa love :(

>Dallas is basically midwestern.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Dallas may be the gateway to the plains, but it is a Southern city. It has its Texan flair, but Dallas is indeed Southern to the bone.

>It would be terrible, a destruction of the Union
I'd wager 2/3 of the country would rather be independent or at least have the Union changed right now. It wouldn't be that terrible.

Something like this would not be a bad idea. Let Dixie have good relations with Texas, the plains and mountains republics, and the farming states, and have fuck all to do with NY and Commiefornia.

Do you think Americas general devotion to civics would hold things together despite ethnic boundaries?

Have you ever been to Dixie? They are already belligerently tribalistic as shit. They already care more about their identity than government foundations and they would relish a Yugoslavia situation.

USA is the greatest misstake on the American continent.

>Let Dixie have good relations with Texas, the plains and mountains republics, and the farming states, and have fuck all to do with NY and Commiefornia.

That's quite the delusion you got there.

I strongly suspect that the corporate oligarchy running America would not permit serious civil strife to occur.

If it did, I'm pretty sure it would be the South against literally everyone else, and the South would lose harder than before.

I hate foreigners that obsess over the idea of my country dissolving

they can go to hell for all I care

>and they would relish a Yugoslavia situation.

...for the first few months, until it becomes a third world shithole.

the only mistake is just about every country south of our border

Dallas to me is just a bigger Indianapolis.

The only reason why the south even had a puncher's chance in the ACW was the fact their commanders were battle hardened veterans from the Mexican-American war, while the northern commanders were relatively inexperienced. Today, they have no such advantage.

They still kind of do. People from the Southeast are about five times as likely to join the US military as people from the Northeast.

It's just that the country has two coasts now, and neither one of them like the South.

Okay, the Gulf Coast probably does, but you know what I mean.

Newsflash: northeast and southeast aren't everything there is to America. The midwest is huge, and surely wouldn't back a southern secession.

I think we might be off topic. I think OP is less wondering about an actual balkanization of the US and more about America becoming more of a multi-ethnic country like China or India. We have a lot of immigrant groups right now but they mostly just assimilate into one homogeneous american culture over time.

>...for the first few months, until it becomes a third world shithole.
I can see it now. Southern politicians immediately attempt to put forward laws which either directly or indirectly discriminate against black citizens since they don't have the federal government keeping them in check (I forgot which state it was which called for a study of the methods blacks and Hispanics use to vote in elections, and by the next cycle those methods were illegal). Other whites start yelling about all things niggers since they are now free from "political correctness". Only this time around blacks aren't taking their shit and start to protest leading to riots. Bada bing, bada boom you have a third world shit-hole from ethnic and racial strife. Needless to say the whites will immediately blame the shittiness of their country on having "too many niggers", because nothing could ever be their own fault. Failing that they will find some means of blaming it on liberals and California.

>Have you ever been to Dixie? They are already belligerently tribalistic as shit. They already care more about their identity than government foundations and they would relish a Yugoslavia situation.

This is a lie. I lived in the South all my life, and Southerners are patriotic as shit. Vast majority of the armed forces and its commanders come from the South and a lot of the US politicians.

You only thing you actually get is southern culture > rest of the US culture because its true.

Basically, if you're coming here from a different country, and you try to change this country to match the one you left, then there isn't any reason you should not go back to your own country. I want to live in the USA, not x shithole country you left

>Basically, if you're coming here from a different country, and you try to change this country to match the one you left, then there isn't any reason you should not go back to your own country. I want to live in the USA, not x shithole country you left

True. I'm just trying to outline the difference between having a lot of immigrant ethnic groups which should assimilate (chicanos, nisei, and irish in the US) and having regional ethnic groups (Kurds across the ME, Sicilians in Italy, Uyghurs in China).

those regional groups formed a long time ago without the advent of mass communications. Right now everyone is moving towards a more americanized/westernized culture, and the west is becoming somewhat easternized.

>A fucking tree
>A fucking buffalo
>Some fucking stones
>A fucking skinny bear
>A fucking shield
>Neo Lebanon
>Chile
>A fucking Floir de Lis
>something that looks like a teenager's version of an American Empire
>A Pokeball
>The Ursa Major
>The two walled up islands
>Player 2 pallete Puerto Rico
>Good old Mexico
>Another fucking Union Jack in the top left corner
>a fucking I don't even know what that is supposed to be, in the old South Africa flag
>A flag representing the Power Rangers over the sea
>triangles

People identified state 1st American 2nd before the civil war dummy, it's changed since and isn't going back (unfortunately)

>got 4 different national languages
>ever major cultural border of the continent is somewhere real close
>26 political sovereign entities with long standing borders and fierce local rivalry.
>shitshow is going on for over 700 years
>burger tells me about his problems
Save for that civil war bit you had it real pleasant dear amerifriends. Start to complain when the boys from Chicago suddenly decide to siege Detroit because someone stole a car or some shit.

Is this a another balk thread?!!!
I better post my shitty map!
(The map is assuming peaceful negotiation beforehand and also a military agreement keeping the same military structure as now shared between the nations)
(If you want to see the resources I used they are all in this folder dropbox.com/sh/xhu31t5yde4egfx/AACXPgFWGdRFLs8e6y4Z2ypwa?dl=0)

Why do people try to meme New Orleans into importance, that city hasn't been relevant since the 1920s even in the south ever since Atlanta has overtaken it.

Find one flaw

Its the biggest city that is also on the coast and on the Mississippi river

>Arizona sharing a country with the niggerized, banjo-strumming shitholes of Dixie
There you go. Put us with Nevada, Utah and Colorado where we belong.

This is my favorite

Washington, Oregon and British Columbia should be independent Cascadia.

Minneapolis is not even close to being in the right spot.

>me being ruled by Trucuck

Is it? I've never been. I'm from Indy.