Ancient Egypt as an Empire

You know, for all the attention Ancient Egypt gets in the study of the Ancient world, they seem to be not an influential an Empire as others were.

What I mean by that is: look at Rome or China: their culture spread beyond their own borders influencing lesser peoples that these people end up looking like another version of themselves. In addition even after collapsing said people carry over their culture.

Meanwhile Egyptian culture- AFAIK- seem to just remain in Egypt. People around them did not become Egyptian-copies and were not dressing up or doing Egyptian cultural stuff and whatnot.

I guess the exception to this are the Nubians who copied Egyptian culture but they're pretty much it, the rest didn't seem to think Egypt is hot shit.

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It's pretty much the sand version of Aztec subhumans

iirc Greek statuary was influenced by Egyptians.

You're an ignorant, I know you've never been interested in the ancient Near East because if you were you'd know Egyptian influence over it was colossal.

Phoenicians for instance adopted a shit ton of deities and symbols from the Egyptian culture (Egypt ruled over the Levant for centuries), if you had ever been even remotely interested in the Phoenician culture you'd know that everything: from sarcophagoi to the jewelry, to their alphabet was heavily influenced by the Egyptians.

Phoenicians, even in their western colonies started producing Egyptian like scarabs and scaraboids en mass, their statues too had Egyptian like poses and symbols.

Greeks were huge egyptboos

Not OP

You've tickled my interests, where's the best place to start with the Phoenicians

All monotheistic religions were basically invented by Egyptians. Jews copied from Egypt and Christians and Muslims copied from Jews.

They gave us our writing system

"I Fenici tra il vicino oriente e la Sardegna"

Paolo Bernardini, 2014

Don't you mean
>HAWK SNAKE TWO FEET BASKET

all the religious, occult and mathematical shit from the Greeks was from Egypt first. Even the story of Atlantis.

Me on the left.

Greece was influenced by Egypt. Not as much as afros hype but definitely significantly.

>Donald harden's The Phoenicians is a good introductory book, older but cheap and very informative.

>Glenn Markoe also has a good book, also called the Phoenicians

For Phoenicians in the West and Carthage:
>Richard Miles Carthage must be destroyed is a good introduction

>Serge Lancel is probably the best source for Carthage

>The Phoenicians and the west by Maurie Aubet

Nile people retain their ancient cultural continuity to a large degree.

>You're an ignorant, I know you've never been interested in the ancient Near East because if you were you'd know Egyptian influence over it was colossal.

I'm hesitant to respond since your attitude is obnoxious, but here we go.

>Phoenicians for instance adopted a shit ton of deities
The Phoenician gods were of the Canaanite pantheon gods, how exactly were they adopted from the Egyptians?

>if you had ever been even remotely interested in the Phoenician culture you'd know that everything: from sarcophagoi to the jewelry, to their alphabet was heavily influenced by the Egyptians.

Their art, jewelry, etc had more Mycenaean influence than Egyptian, they had a lot of contact with the Mycenaeans and even a reasonable population of them. It's one argument for their expansion after the bronze age collapse. At least from the research I've read. Their alphabet had originally been an adaption of hierglyphics, but they changed it heavily by making it a phonetic alphabet with far less characters.

>Phoenicians, even in their western colonies started producing Egyptian like scarabs and scaraboids en mass, their statues too had Egyptian like poses and symbols.

They heavily traded with Egypt, just like with everybody else, this doesn't mean Egyptian culture permeated through them. The western Phoenicians ended up being very hellenized.

T. Imhotep

You mean Islam and Arabic culture?
They're certainly proud of being Egyptian, but they have little to no contact with their culture beyond that. Same with Modern Greeks, Modern day Tunisians, and Modern day Iranians.

Modern Greeks are culturally more Arab. It's been this way since the Byzantine Empire.

In what way?
Also.
Turks aren't Arabs.

t. Oswald Spengler
Fuck off dude

This. And seeing how influencial greek culture was I guess that makes egypt somewhat responsible.

No, Egypt was a Nile based empire, and echoes of it can still be seen in Nile cultures

They really don't retain any egyptian culture though. Being proud of Egypt doesn't mean they have anything to do culturally with ancient Egyptians.

Iranians are super proud of the Persian Empire yet they have literally nothing in common culturally with them.
The culture of Egypt, Nubia and East Africa is just Islamic culture.

lol canaanite fuck get btfo

What a fucking idiot you are.

Mycenean influence on Phoenician culture is literally non existent, read book instead of speed reading Wikipedia and confusing Phoenicians with Philistines.


Also, Phoenicians did indeed worship Egyptian Gods such as Beth and imported them to their Western colonies in Sardinia, Spain and N.Africa

Their alphabet came from Proto Sinatic, Not directly hieroglyphs, your research is reading posts on his and remembering them badly

Egyptian like motifs are widespread in Phoenician motifs: from their jewerly to their statues and wall paintings in The burials, Egyptian like scarab a were produced locally in Phoenician cities and colonies, Phoenicians were buried in Egyptian like sarcophags, The list goes on. anyone Who cares about Phoenicians knows this thing, you clearly havent even bothered to do any research on Google, let alone read a book, please stop spreading misinformation, it's annoying.

Bronze Age collapse happened.

>What a fucking idiot you are.

Sigh. Shouldn't have expected any less from a pretentious ass.

>Mycenean influence on Phoenician culture is literally non existent, read book instead of speed reading Wikipedia and confusing Phoenicians with Philistines.

This is false. The Mycenaeans traded heavily in the Levant, and their populations mingled. My most recent source is The Phoenicians by Donald Harden for this.

>Also, Phoenicians did indeed worship Egyptian Gods such as Beth and imported them to their Western colonies in Sardinia, Spain and N.Africa

You mean Bethel? Literally House of El in Canaanite and Hebrew. How is this Egyptian?

>Their alphabet came from Proto Sinatic, Not directly hieroglyphs, your research is reading posts on his and remembering them badly

The Phoenician alphabet is a direct continuation of proto-Canaanitic, which is the northern form of proto-sinaitic.

>Egyptian like motifs are widespread in Phoenician motifs: from their jewerly to their statues and wall paintings in The burials, Egyptian like scarab a were produced locally in Phoenician cities and colonies, Phoenicians were buried in Egyptian like sarcophags,

Phoenicians that used sarcophagus did put lotus and ankhs on them, but many Phoenicians did cremation. There were Egyptian cults in Phoenicia, but that doesn't mean they all had the same funerary practices, it was pretty split. Glenn Markoe's The Phoenicians is my source here.

>The list goes on. anyone Who cares about Phoenicians knows this thing, you clearly havent even bothered to do any research on Google, let alone read a book, please stop spreading misinformation, it's annoying.

Pretentious ass. I read plenty and done plenty of research.

Number two is an asshole.

Hey man I was just at the Louvre. there's a whole fucking exhibit full of sargophogi from Phoenicia that are obviously Egyptian influenced. do you not know about the egyptian influence on early greek sculpture?

Read Herodotus, you pleb. He literally claims that Greek civilization was inspired by Egyptian.

She's definitely Ethiopian, not Egyptian

Ethiopia and Egypt were inextricably intertwined in ancient times. Ancient "Egypt" was much more expansive than its modern borders, and all Nile based people are closely related. The cultures further south managed to resist cultural arabization to a degree and it shows.

>This is false. The Mycenaeans traded heavily in the Levant

They traded, but not particularly heavily and mostly with Ugarit, they didn't really trade much with proper Phoenician cities such as Tyre, Sidon or Byblos and they didn't have any cultural influence on them.

Also, go ahead and shoe me any Mycenean influence on Phoenician jewels or artefacts, I can show you Egyptian influenced jewelry and motifs made by Phoenicians like pic related all day

>mingled

Philistines didn't settle anywhere near Phoenician cities but in the Palestine region south of them, they also came in small numbers and didn't found new settlement but just settled already existing Canaanite settlements such as Ashkelon and Ashdod.

They also probably weren't proper Myceneans but a mix between Cypriot, Anatolians and Aegean migrants, since their pottery most closely resembles Aegean models from Cyprus and Cilicia, they also were a few thousand in total according to most estimates

>You mean Bethel?

I mean Bes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bes

It was really popular among Phoenicians both in Lebanon and in their colonies in Europe and N.Africa

>Phoenicians that used sarcophagus did put lotus and ankhs on them, but many Phoenicians did cremation.

And?

Sarcophagus was for the rich, I've never said it wasn't, it still is another clear Egyptian influence,

>Herodotus

The Egyptians were telling him the Greeks were inspired. The Egyptians liked to claim they were the source of civilization and bullshit like that.

>modern day iranians
How so? Iran is one of the few middle eastern countries to perserve their language and culture and not be arabized beyond islam

Im not talking about the Philistines. I'm talking pre-bronze age collapse. The Mycenaeans had settled in Cyprus and Phoenician territory before that.

>Bes
I forgot about that little dwarf dude. The Romans even dressed him up like a cute little legionnaire. Adorable.

Overall, I'm just arguing they weren't as insanely egypticized (I know made up) as you made it seem.

Their pantheon didn't change much, you had egyptian cults but cults transfers were common in polytheistic nations. I wouldn't say the adoption of Bes, who was adopted from Rome to Persia, is a huge influence. He didn't have much concerning temple or worship practices. He was more a household good luck charm.

Their jewelry and pottery took a lot in from many cultures, it's what makes it hard for us to actually evaluate this stuff. we also don't have much in terms of their art to fully assess their style.

And they did have Egyptian influence in certain funeral practices but that really mainly applied to some of the wealthy and Phoenicians in egypt. Cremation was still heavily used, and there is reason to believed the practice cremation originated in this area rather for them than them adopting it from somewhere, especially Egypt.

>The Mycenaeans had settled in Cyprus and Phoenician territory before that.
citation very much needed

AYO HOL UP

Like I said Donald Harden's The Phoenicians is my most recent source I've read that from. The Mycenaeans and Minoans were the main trading presence in the eastern Mediterranean at this time. Their homeland destruction allowed the Phoenicians to fill the void, with arguably Mycenaean sailors with them.

That's really oversimplifying the Hierglyphics > Proto-Canaanite > Phoenicians > Greek > Latin chain

Myceneans never settled in Phoenicia

They did. Both their and Cyprus. I'm not talking about migrations. The Mycenaeans developed most of the trade networks pre-collapse and the traders also settled in Phoenicia

They didnt

They did

They didn't... Not in Phoenicia, only in Cyprus

Sorry but I'm going to side with Donald Harden over a random user on Veeky Forums.