Was it fair to allow women to vote when they were not concerned by military conscription or forced to go to war...

It's obvious, just like in Athens, citizens vote because if they vote in favour of the war, they're the ones directly involved. It reminds me that in Austria they held a referendum in order to end conscription, and women were allowed to vote for this, even though it doesn't involve them.

...

No, it is unfair

The draft is a meme and should never
have existed in the first place. If you need to draft people in order to get them to fight for their country, perhaps leaders need to evaluate their agendas and governance. And people should HAVE to fight just to vote. I am totally in for instating a law that says anyone who wants to run office should have president or Senate should have miliary experience though. Just my opinion.
If you go back far enough, it was just as life threatening though. While not emotionally scaring thanks to hormones, if you have ever had the displeasure of having to pass a large kidney stone, you would no it's no walk in the park.

was it fair to allow old men to lead countries when they were not concerned by military conscription or forced to go to war?

Now user, you know good and well the women would and I'm sure did vote against conscription. You don't even need to speculate.

>people who were unable to serve in the military due to a medical condition should not be able to be involved in public service

that's a good thing though
>because you were born in [country] we are going to force you to murder or get murdered by people the exact same age as you who were born in [other country] who don't want to be there either because of reasons that you were not at all involved in or consulted on, if you refuse we will kill you.

Fucking this.
Imo, every person running for office in one of the 3 main branches should have some type of military service for say 3 years.
I meant more the the 3 branches and literally any type of military service, even as an officer or for special skills in services like the Air Force

Shouldn't* have to

The draft isn't the issue I care most about. The real problem and moral hazard is loading the next generation with debt. Not just in direct government spending, but the feedback loop for such things as increasing student loans in such a way that universities simply increase their tuition fees in tandem, creating an ever ballooning cost to new students.

Women's Suffrage was a huge mistake.

you want the military to start letting in anyone with medical defects, no matter how severe, so that maybe one day they can be politicians?

this is about as clear a case of causation not equaling causality as you can get

the rise in debt was due to the policies of the progressive movement, of which women's suffrage was merely one of their goals

Not everyone.are you saying they are so sick that they never get well enough to ever apply for service? There are other ways to help in the military besides combat like special skills. And perhaps if they are so sick to the point they never get well enough to apply for a med read then they shouldn't be running. It's a hazard to run for such offices in poor health.

So, why State Revenue also went up?

Read the paper. It goes into detail about how it's not just the female vote being legal, but coincides with the amount of female voters actually going to vote.

Read this paper.

econ.cam.ac.uk/people/faculty/tsa23/papers/web/eer2005.pdf

It compares 12 countries, not just one. Government spending went up in every single one of them. Some of them, such as France allowed women to vote during, or even after the WW II (Switzerland)

>Lott and Kenny (1999)
evaluate US evidence from the period
1870–1940, and find that the observed pre-war expansion in the size of government
can be attributed in large part to the female suffrage. US states did not extend the
franchise uniformly; several states gave women the right to vote long before federal
legislation made this compulsory in 1919–1920. Spending patterns, as well as
congressional voting records, suggest that state governments or representatives
elected after this extension voted for more government spending and higher taxes. In
our analysis, the impact of the female suffrage is remarkably weak and, in contrast to
the US evidence, often negative.

Look.
The point of women suffrage isn't whether it would help or hurt the economy. The point is that you cannot have a government where only half of it's citizen's opinions are considered and call it democractic in anyway. You talk about mature intelligent people being open to opinions that they don't agree with even if they are offensive, yet you are ok with half the population not being able to express theirs through voting.

They joined the labor force.

>voting should be based on wartime military service

So should no one vote in neutral countries, or even ones with long periods of peace? It seems absurd; the vast majority of male voters aren't vets either in most countries.

>women shouldn't get to vote unless they serve in the military
>also women shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military

>I'm sure giving birth is so much worse than fighting in Verdun.

So you fought in Verdun?

Every single person who is officially a member of the mitary has to pass Basic Combat Training, even if they're going to be a dentist for the rest of their service.

...

> Civil rights should always be linked with duties
Let's be real, they should be linked to money. In practice, it doesn't matter if you are woman or man. If you are rich, you served your country well.

if you're literally asking this question in 2017, then you need to go to and stay there

if 4 channers went out and had sex with some of these women once in a while we would have had this terrible version of feminism which plaques us today

>has never even touched a woman

Unfriendly reminder that suffrage was a catastrophic mistake

Collectivism exploded into existence less than two decades after suffrage

Democracy was a mistake itself but that's another matter entirely

Women should not be allowed to vote for the same reason that children are not allowed to vote

Not really fair to compare it to a direct democracy though. Most Americans were against entering the 1st and a shitload still against going into the 2nd, yet the politicians they voted for decided to throw them into it anyways.

Sigh this argument again.
If women are children mentally, surely it is a crime to have them do anything then? Including watch and take care of children. And work which women on average have been during for centuries one way or another(see peasants). If they are expected to work and contribute to a country's complex economy, then they should be able to have a voice in it too.
Of course, it's not true and you're just a sexist who is full of shit. What a waste of time this thread turned out to be.

There was literally no reason for women to vote. Look up basically any argument against female suffrage and it is completely rational and just as valid today as 100 years ago. Like so many other "advances" in society women voting was really just a plot for socialists and other groups to advance their agenda; and people at the time knew it- look up churchills statement on women voting. It's no coincidence that women voting and the decline of the West are intrinsically linked.

Honestly Saudi Arabia has the right idea with the male guardianship system.

>Thinks Starship Troopers is a good model for governance

And I am saying, are you telling me no time in their life before they ran for office, were they healthy enough to undergo basic training and service for any part of the military? Perhaps they are not healthy enough to run for office and serve for life in senate/handle the stress of being president.

Also look up some of the feminists from back then; nothing changes. 1910s versions of pic related.

Women voting is bad enough but the biggest meme is universal suffrage.

That's. Not. The. Point.
But forget it. You're likely just going to chimp out and say democracy was a mistake like other idiots and that facsim is some how better or whatever the fuck you support.
But go ahead. Go live in Saudi Arabia where some alpha Muslims marry multiple wives and beta males like you are still left with nothing but radical religion and the internet. Or better yet, create you own state that is similar. Not it would change much for you.

>Democracy was a mistake itself but that's another matter entirely

Then obviously your opinions on how democracy's should be run are of great value of course

No women are tribal subhumans with instinctive gynocentrism(GIRLS FUCK YH!) causing cancer when they have freedom.

Fair enough. At least if you're a sexist you at least have integrity and admit to being a fascist as well.
Assuming non universal suffrage which I assume again will be based on property ownership, must it matter if the person is male or female?
We already established the draft is bullshit and should never exist in the first place.

Great arguments based on historical facts. Clearly this post and this thread belong on this board.
Sage.

*Sigh* more sexism. What the hell does how a woman's looks have to do with this argument now? Should we immediately discount all your opinions as soon as we find out you are a day, acne ridden, Cheeto eating basement dwelling NEET with man boobs and no friends? Let alone a girl friend. Such hypocrisy. You know what, perhaps we should start doing it for both sides. It's only fair. Everything you say about rights and ideology are now invalid if you fit the above description.

>system is shit
>I know let's make it more shit

>real men punch women in the face when they whine

uh oh we got an alpha male here boys

>So should no one vote in neutral countries
Neutral countries still need to maintain an army to defend their neutrality. The swiss army is far from bad.
Of course in the modern world we don't bother with this kind of question, but we're talking about the world in 1914. How was it fair to give women the right to vote when only males were expected to go to war.

The point wasn't that military service should be a requirement for voting, it's that the right to vote should have responsibilities, and traditionally conscription has been one of them.

Same could be asked for women bearing children
>Modern women
>Having children
Statistics say othervise sweetie.

The funny thing is that even in the past when men were "manly and didn't take shit from women" they didn't even punch women in the face.slap maybe. Unless he was a psychopath rapist.

But modern women still do have kids otherwise my friend wouldn't be pulling late shifts in the labor and delivery unit at the hospital every other night.
>Inb4 it's all immigrants
No. My friend works in a majority white town.

Anyway we are getting off topic, most of the arguments presented here were garbage besidesAnd I already disproved it's significant which he only reponsed with the notion that fascism, I guess is better. That's all for this thread I guess.
Would be nice if mods could step in soon.

>If you are rich, you served your country well.
This is not work in main country (I don't say which one). Rich men (and women) often run away with all money to an another country.
Riches don't want make mine country rich, level up it from third world, they only want be rich they-selves and have a Dolce vita

>he point is that you cannot have a government where only half of it's citizen's opinions are considered and call it democractic in anyway.
Of course you can!
Since when has democracy meant that everyone can vote?

>Would be nice if mods could step in soon
Why?

Paradixically giving women political and economic freedom gas come at the expense of propagating the next generation of people

You realize you're on a history board, right? The vast majority of democratic institutions haven't had universal voting rights. The current era is a big exception to the norm right now. I'm not saying it's bad, but I am saying you're the wrongest user in this thread with that post.

>If women are children mentally, surely it is a crime to have them do anything then?
Non sequitur
Older children are allowed to look after younger children, hold jobs, and contribute to the economy and yet they are rightfully not allowed to vote.

>Women voting is bad enough but the biggest meme is universal suffrage.
>tfw you would gladly give up your right to vote if it meant women would stop voting
Not even meming.

It's not real democracy and women shouldn't be considered citizen's at that point then. It's bullshit and always has been. They live in a civilization where they have always contributed to the economy as a group one way or another. They are affected by changes that occur in the state. They should be able to voice their opinions and vote on matters in the state.

And? I am arguing why that is bullshit and false the same way I argued why the draft for men or anyone was/ is bullshit and shouldn't be allowed.

Did you literally come here from R*ddit? No one gives a fuck about being PC or conforming to BuzzFeed approved opinions. The way you type is either a good troll or you really need to understand the communication styles on Veeky Forums and Reddit are vastly different

...

>non universal suffrage
>fascist state

Can you define the word fascism for me please?

...

These older children also aren't allowed to get married, be fucked by any age group, drink, or drive but I guess you're going to say women should never be allowed to do any of those things either? Except for marriage of course.

If for no other reason alone, this is enough reason to destroy feminism.

>literally committing ethnic suicide so cunts can play career woman for 100 years

Thank you, what I was trying to get across. Image saved.

I will discount your opinions because you are probably a fat ugly, smelly, basement dwelling nerd with no friends or job.

All women are subhumans.

>It's not real democracy
lol
Athens confirmed for not a real democracy!

>They should be able to voice their opinions and vote on matters in the state.
Why not ask my dog's opinion too while we're at it?

You are because you want to put the power to vote and influence state matters in the hands of a limited number of people based on certain criteria aside from simply being a devouted and law abiding citizen. Setting up the possiblity of oligarchy anyway.
But fine tell me you criteria for non universal suffrage before I keep assuming it's property ownership and (hopefully not) draft?

Funny how the rise in women involvement in politics (not necessarily suffrage) coincided with global improvement of just about every metric.

It's because you're wrong on very provable facts instead of having a dumb opinion. It makes you more wrong.

Yes and?
The point is there are degrees of responsibility in society, and just because someone is deemed not responsible enough to vote doesn't mean they're incapable of holding many other responsibilities, including working fucking, drinking, getting married and driving moron.

Although I'd argue that women shouldn't be allowed to drive without male oversight either, but that's a topic for another thread.

>Last two centuries
>Women's suffrage happened 200 years ago

Alright. Your post has convinced me that all my arguments are invalid thank you.
Btw I have never been on Reddit and don't have an account but clearly you have and do.
All men are subhumans.
See how easy that is to make shit up? But no it's more like all /pol/tards are subhuman.

Sorry, I'm not any correlation here.

>rise in women involvement in politics (not necessarily suffrage)
reading comprehension

Women are a base, primitive, carnal subhuman evil that enslaved the beautiful, creative Promethean beings (men).

Your dog isn't a human and it's ridiculous for you to compare women to such a thing. Same on you.
Only if like the Athenians, you assume women are not really human like your dog. Which Im assuming you probably do so there is no arguing out of this one I guess.

What provable facts you provided none except for the existence for no universal suffrage which I am arguing against the same way you and OP are arguing for it. And the draft being useful is not a fact it is an opinion and as such, I gave mine.

A dog is more human than a woman could ever hope to be.

So much bitterness in one little image.

So much subhuman whore in one post.

You seem upset, did your mom accidentally give you the star shaped tendies instead of the dinosaur ones you like?

Wow the egde here is so sharp I nearly cut myself.
Meanwhile you're a bitter virgin just because one won't deign to fuck you...I mean use her beauty to "enslave" you, what a warped view of gender relations. Not even most feminists view it like that.
And any man hating rad fem can make the same image using men as a subject of scorn. I don't get your point. It just shows you're as bitter and lonely as them.
C'mon can we move past the adhoms already and back to points please? I'm about to report this thread for non Veeky Forums related content.

Go back to hell you stinking, yeast-infected demon shits.

Woman is an accessory and reproduction womb. It never meant to be a friend.

We need to change that.

should have gotten 1/2 vote
Maybe 3/5ths

>*sigh*
Holy fucking shit kys