Why Japan don't surrender?

Why Japan don't surrender?

They did surrender. The nuclear bombs was a test on a populated area, and also a message for the Soviets.

Oh really? I'm not disagreeing that it was a message to Stalin, because it was. But where in the FUCK did the Japs surrender?

The Japanese Imperial Council was trying to end the war on their terms. Among these were:

1. The Emperor would remain on the throne.
2. There would be no war crimes trials.
3. There would be no occupation of the home islands.

That the first of these was accepted by the Allies after the surrender is generally given as the single reason that unconditional surrender was unacceptable to Japan and hence that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unnecessary. The other conditions were clearly unacceptable to the Allies. The Japanese were trying to find intermediaries (Switzerland, Sweden, the USSR) to help negotiate an armistice. The US knew of these attempts through Magic and Ultra decyphers of communiques that Japanese diplomats were sent and sending. Failing to get an armistice on their terms, the Japanese military hoped to inflict such horrendous casualties on the US that the US would be willing to negotiate something less than unconditional surrender. To get a more complete view of the final days of WW II in the Pacific, I suggest reading Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B. Frank (in particular Chapter 14: Unconditional Surrender and Magic).

I knew most of that. I just didn't realize you were referring to it.

They wanted to, they just didn't have a socially acceptable way to do so. The Japanese Empire had placed huge stock in the supposed virtues of the Samurai, including the doctrine that suicide is preferable to surrender. The Jap High Command couldn't surrender without losing their credibility among their own people, risking civil war and the loss of their own status.It was only after the nukes that they realised they literally had no other option than to submit, that the possibility of a brave but futile stand against an American invasion was no longer on the cards.

How true is it that they ultimately surrendered not because of the atomic bombs but because of the soviet advance in Manchuria?

Hard to say. Remember, the Japanese government of WW2 wasn't really like what we think of as a modern government. You had multiple cabals, each of which had their own goals for staying in the war, and different things that they thought of as unacceptable losses that even surrender was preferable to.

It's probably accurate to say that the invasion of Manchuria was a big kick in the teeth for the IJA faction, which was the last holdout to surrender, since it mauled their forces in Manchuria and showed the potential for an even bigger one in proper China. But on the other hand, absent the atomic bombings, other factions more focused on Japan itself (which the Soviets had no direct means to threaten) probably would have ignored it if it was Manchuria only.

t. Ivan Ivanov
Soviets attacking Manchuria did about as much as the Warsaw upraising did to stop the German war machine

They surrendered on an American battleship.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Your question was
>Where in the FUCK did they surrender?

I think they also had
4: keeping some of its conquered territory.

Really liked that book though. Both Downfall and Guadalcanal are great.

Reading about the poor guy sent to Moscow was kinda frustrating

>I suggest reading Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B. Frank (in particular Chapter 14: Unconditional Surrender and Magic).
muh nigga

Take your pedophile cartoons back to

>Reading about the poor guy sent to Moscow

What poor guy?

This

Also the Japanese situation in the Summer of 1945 wasn't near as dire as Germany's in the months leading to their surrender (pic related), There were still 7 million Japanese soldiers and still more manpower left to recruit from, as well as Japan still holding the grand majority o their imperial conquests, the only truly damning thing against them was the annihilation of the Navy, which had no capacity to engage allied fleets at the time and protect shipments of oil and material from occupied Indonesia, but the Army could still resist against landings on the Japanese home islands.

August 1945 was when most of Japan's ability to resist was wiped away, between the atomic bombings, British/Indian advances into Thailand and Indochina, and the Soviet entry into the war that forced the Japanese to completely fold.

The Japanese appealed to the Soviet Union to try and be a mediator for a conditioned peace, as they were the only allied power not at war with Japan, and sent a diplomat to try anything to bring them in to negotiate with the US and Britain.

It was useless since the Soviets signed the Yalta agreement where they would enter the war against Japan 3 months after the war in Europe was over.

Its been a while since i read Downfall so i dont remember the names, but some high-ranking guy in Japan got sent to Moscow by train to meet with Molotov i think, in an attempt to start negotiations with the US. Now, there were several factions in Japan that were at odds with each other, some more diehard than others, so he was not sent with an official "the government want you to do the following"-order.

Now, this poor guy is trying to establish a diplomatic foothold with an ally of Japan's enemy, without any directions as to what his own government could offer in an negotiation. And there is a level of secrecy around this as well, because not all of the Japanese government is aware that he is there at all.

This of course goes back and forth on telegraphs, and i think being intercepted with Magic, allowing the US to know that there is some kind of backdoor diplomacy going on, but that it is completely half-arsed.

And of course Molotov is a sneaky prick as always, knowing full and well that the Japan-USSR non-aggression pact is not worth the paper it is written on anymore.

This.
The emmisary sent to the USSR was not a representative of the Japanese government, but rather a faction in the government. He had no official instructions or powers.
There was also a Jap in Swissland who made contact with the OSS, but his repeated messgages to the Jap government went unanswered.

The Japs one attempt to negotiate a surrender, and it was foolish, unrealistic, and unofficial.
Had the Japs really wanted to surrender, they had merely to broadcast that intent, then open talks through a neutral country. Instead they prepared Kyushu for an apocalyptic battle, while broadcasting their intent to fight to the death of Japan.

The Bombs were a mercy.

>other conditions were clearly unacceptable to the Allies
Not quite. The strategy employed by the US has always been to go strong on the demands and then roll back. This combined with understanding what the bare minimum the enemy will take is what the US used in the past against Japan.

So its simply based on business, nothing really is out of the question here. The fact that Japanese knew of the Russian intervention means they lost their grounds/terms for surrender. So they accepted whatever.

They were having too much fun in China, they didn't want the party to end.

Seems pretty straight forward to me

>meh

They should have just sued for peace after taking Singapore. At that time, Germany was at the height of its power, the British had been humiliated in the Pacific and were terrified of the possibility of a German invasion, the US had no fleet ready to deal with the IJN yet, and the USSR was still neutral. Backstabbing Germany (which was too far away and too busy to do anything about it anyway) and trading peace and future neutrality in exchange for the Pacific Islands, Taiwan, Malaysia and Indonesia (possibly even the Chinese coast) would have been a great way to get what Japan needed to finally be able to snowball into a permanent world power.
But no, they just had to get greedy. After Midway, they had already lost.