What is hell like? Does it exist?

>God has no free will to choose what he wants to do since he is perfect.
Again, you're talking about things no human can know anything about. You are actively speculating on God's morality (as if you could picture what God should do). Can't you see how ridicolous it is? What can you possibly know about what somethign perfect and divine behaves and looks like? Absolutely nothing, and apparently you're not modest enough to doubt for even a second your bland theological implications.

>It doesn't matter what I want, God behaves that way because he is perfect and it's easy to know what his behaviour is from his properties
lol

IF GOD DIDN"T SENT SINNER TO HELL HE WOULDN"T BE JUST WHAT THE FUCK CAN"T YOU UNDERSTAND YOU FUCKING MORON
FUck its all very simple you dumb chimp, GOD IS PERFECT.
If he let sinners off he would be an evil DEMON NOT GOD.

Just a tool to make people afraid and let them do what you want

>finite sin
>infinite punishment
Hell is a retarded idea even for religious standards. It makes the deity look like a dick, and his followers moronic fearmongers.

God is perfect and infinite so every time you insult him by sinning he feels infinite pain.
Therefore finite sins are actually infinite sins so you deserve infinite punishment.

overpopulated like a big slum or favela with the sound of loud idiotic music and crying babies and animals, hot, damp, no privacy, people rubbing against you all the time so nasty

>>God exists because of the prime mover argument
Okay this is agreeable

>>Since he's perfect he needs to punish evil and therefore sinners are punished by God in hell
Based on what? There is no solid agreement on what evil means to God, what a sin is, or even why God would *need* (as if God """needs""" to do anything, lel) to punish sinners. You are literally assuming the will of God here and you have no way of knowing what he does or does not want beyond relying on (I assume) the bible - which is not at all an obligatory or even a foundational part of the argument that "God exists because of the prime movement argument". None of us know, you do not know, I do not know, the Pope does not know who goes to hell or to heaven, only God and there is no argument to justify or even explain the motives or reasoning of God without wrongly assuming his characteristics which are utterly incomprehensible.

>>If he didn't punish them in hell, his justice wouldn't be perfect therefore he wouldn't be God
see above

>>But he is God therefore people are punished in hell
see above

>FUck its all very simple you dumb chimp, GOD IS PERFECT.
>If he let sinners off he would be an evil DEMON NOT GOD.

Your comprehension of the human condition is skewed, since you're a human being. What you're actually doing is equating your jusgement with God's judgement (an heresy). You think you know what's right, and you're not modest enough to accept that you're full of shit (so full of shit that you're ready to tell to GOD how to behave).

>If he let sinners off he would be an evil DEMON NOT GOD.
I don't think being a sinner is a justification enough to condemn someone to suffer for all eternity. It sounds kind of dumb to me. I'd condemn them to a correctional facility.

>Questioning anything will put you in infinite, most horrible torture for the rest of eternity

Glad we got that out of the way.

No i don't think I'm right, I KNOW i'm right because I am an analytical philosopher, e.g I analyse objectively what is true.
I don't know why you're getting so hung up here, I am agreeing with you that God is a perfect entity and therefore perfectly just.

>you hurt God´s feelings therefore you deserve to be tortured
Literally SJW: the religion.

you make this infinite and perfect God sound awfully vindictive.
>an eye for an eye
child tier morality

If God's all powerful why doesn't he just choose not to feel the pain of your sins.

Craig is a fraud and you fell for his bullshit, good job.

>masturbate without saying sorry to jesus
>go to hell

people DIED over this shit

Sorry I am just very disturbed by an argument online and hoped one of you would reject that argument if I acted as if I believed it.
Please don't turn away from God on account of what I have said.
I said that he is undefeated in debates, i.e he dismantles every single argument that atheists ever have.
Prove me wrong otherwise I'm right.

being a self declared analytical philosopher doesnt make you right.for an analytical philosofer you cant even seem to reason logically or aknowledge flaws in your theory(or you possibly cant see them out of retardation/hybris)

>I said that he is undefeated in debates
He doesn't argue during debates, all he does is say obvious shit using fancy words so plebs like you think he's equivalent to Einstein even though he has a limited understanding of evolution or human biology.
Just because he's never ''lost'' a debate doesn't mean he's won one.
> i.e he dismantles every single argument that atheists ever have.
Wrong. He's never done this in any of his debates.
Why would you lie?

>people still believe in sky daddy

About the feelings argument. According to philosophers and theologians, God can´t technically feel anything otherwise this would imply change (from one state, say, happy, to another, sad), but God is a perfect being and cannot change. If he could change this would mean that he either wasn´t perfect before the change, and now is, or he was perfect, and now is not (because he changed). God therefore cannot change or feel much less throw a hissy fit.

>I finally meet God, the creator of the entire universe with its myriad stars and galaxies!
>I wonder what he has to say to me...
*Stop eating shrimp, or burn in hell for all eternity.*
>Oh, ok.

He was an asshole in Old Testament and then changed to a more respectable state.

Hence the retardation of christards. Marcion was at least honest about it.

That's absurd. Just absolutely absurd. When God says He's not like a man who changes his mind every second, He's not saying He does not change anything, ever. Your "absolute" nonsense is heretical garbage.

God has emotions, and created us with emotions, for a reason. God experiences joy, wrath, jealousy; a myriad of emotions.

When your argument about God begins with a fallacy, a logical fallacy, appeal to authority ("According to philosophers and theologians"), whatever comes next is absolute garbage.

If you think that, why are you still relating to God on OT terms?

You think the devil will win this time?

Outer darkness, weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth; goes from there to a lake of fire and brimstone, pitch black, where you never die, and the fire never goes out. The second death, eternal separation from God.

inb4 the heresy of annihilation
inb4 Gehenna was just a trash burn outside of Jerusalem
inb4 the Jews don't believe in hell

The punishment for eating shrimp was to leave Jerusalem until sundown, and then take a shower.

You people get nothing right. Absolutely nothing.

>Judaic dietary laws
>Judaism
>Hell
Judaism doesn't explicitly describe the afterlife in any way, unless you count mystical teachings that aren't actually part of scripture and could easily be conceived as being heretical.

wat, I just pointed out a perfect, "unchangeable" (this by the way implies he is not perfect nor omnipotent) has changed.

God doesn't feel the pain of your sins; the ordeal on the cross is over.

Who moved the Unmoved Mover?

Is that really your question?

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

>absolute garbage
Says the christard.
>appeal to authority
I´m not appealing to authority, you tard. I´m telling him what philosophers and theologians think. I´m not making a logical statement. It´s hillarious how tards like you read a wikipedia article about muh logical fallacies and mindlessly repeat that when you don´t even understand when it applies.

just shut the fuck up already,"analytical philosopher",you clearly cant even understand what the guy you're replying to means,instead you decide to call it heresey,and an appeal to authority somehow makes his pint wrong?

Go ahead and define "perfect" as "unchangeable".

I'll wait.

Then tell me by whose authority you command God.

>I´m telling him what philosophers and theologians think.

Textbook definition of a logical fallacy, appeal to authority.

Yes, logical fallacies lead to fallacious conclusions. Always. That's why they're logical fallacies.

Judging by your grammar, you were in no wise a person who would have been competing with me at the university level.

Well he wouldn't be perfect and omnipotent if he can't switch from one perfect state to another.

so if he hadnt mentioned other philosephers,the exact same thing he said would've been right?

...

>A grammar nazi on 4chin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>people in the current year think Dante's Tumblr tier fan-fic is valid theology
>people in the current year think heaven and hell are exterior places and not interior states of mind
>people in the current year are cognitive dualists
>people in the current year think "our soul" literally teleports to a magical realm after we die and walks around like a ghost

It's metaphysics and metaphor you dip. The Holy Grail is metaphysical, and so you "find" it though existential contemplation, you don't find it in some cave in the desert....

...

>what did Plato say about universals?
This and that.
>YOU APPEALING TO AUTHORITY!
LMAO autism is real.

So, we're all in agreement that baby boomers are sacks of shit that can somehow be blamed for most of our troubles today, right?

will the analytical philosopher please take note?

Ironically that is a fallacy fallacy. There is nothing harmful about eating 2 bacon double cheeseburgers every day.

>There is nothing harmful about eating 2 bacon double cheeseburgers every day.
you heard it here first

Ok it´s school time (for retards).

There are two kinds of truth. Truths of fact and truths of reason. Truths of fact concern things that are contingent. Truths of reason, things that are necessary.

An example of a truth of fact is all bachelors are single. You can see (unless you´re a tard) that it is not a logical statement. You´re not arguing anything, you´re just telling it like it is.

Another one would be Plato believed in universals. Therefore if you tell someone that Plato believed in universals, if he is a person of average IQ or higher, he will understand that this is a statement of fact, not a logical statement.

If that person however is tard he will autistically screech

>TAHTS A FALLASY!

Another statement of fact is that philosophers believe that God in unchangeable.

>U CKANT SAY DAT PHYSILOERS AREA A TEA YOU RS APPEALINGT OAUTHORYT!

Well. Like I said this it only for people with average IQ or higher. That´s all for today. Have a good day.

Also...

I once asked a priest whether hell and heaven were supernatural realms. He said yes. I then asked if our bodies were reunited with our souls after we died, as the Catechism says. Again, yes, he said. If those two statements are true, I replied, how can our material bodies exist in an immaterial realm? heaven and hell being such supernatural realms. He paused, then said with a nervous grin that it was all part of the sublime mystery of faith. Pull the other one, mate.

I continued. If I just assume that the body doesn't reunite with the soul, how can the soul "feel" pain? and how can the soul be acted upon in a way to cause pain if it's immaterial. Well... he replied, it's more of a spiritual pain... a longing. I asked if he could explain, he said no.

I was going to join the church because I was a reactionary prating about "muh modern world", etc. But when I actually spoke to priests I realised that these people were spooked to oblivion. The Catechism begins with the trinity and resurrection--- why? because once a man can accept the nonsensical trinity as truth, and take Kierkegaard's "leap of faith", they can accept all the other rubbish in the Catechism. I think at least 2/3 of Catholics on /pol/ and Veeky Forums do not sincerely believe in the Catholic faith.

This only works* for people with average IQ or higher.

The Catholic church has become a joke, and they are the very pharisees Jesus rebelled against. I'll stick to philosophy and my own contemplation, thanks, padre...

Recapitulating.

Hell is retarded.

People who believe in hell are retarded.

Christians are particularly retarded.

This individual is retarded.

God never changed between the OT and NT, his plan simply meant he would be "nicer" in the NT.

didn't the Pope say that Hell isn't real and retconned it to make it non-canon?

I don't think jews believe in a black and white afterlife

I'm not sure about the early christians either.

no he said if you follow evil you get away from eternal reality, so hell is unreal or a false reality

>QED

I don't think you know what that means

Life is the biggest joke ever. You grind and grind hoping something good comes of it and the cruelest thing about it is that good thing, when they happen, are just long enough to give you hope to keep grinding to get that next moment of peace, thinking that there is a point in any of it. That being said, humans love struggle so it's all good.

>prime mover

Bullshit. The universe can easily be understood to have always existed.

>but muh Big Bang

One in an endless series of big bangs and big crunches. Universe has always been here.

>Believing Heaven and Hell are uniquely christian inventions
pleb

if God was perfect then he couldn't put people in a place they don't want to be forever because that would imply no ultimate universal reconciliation

Says who? You?

This. if anything the magnitude of his being would make the idea that I could hurt him in any way laughable.

No, the gist of the comment I've already addressed.

user does not get to dictate what God can and cannot do; what God can and cannot be.

Asking what Plato said is one thing (and of course you could not prove anything that was actually said by Plato).

Saying Plato is right about everything he said is entirely different, and false.

People who believe they can make places disappear with their disbelief are delusional.

>Bullshit. The universe can easily be understood to have always existed.

Except nobody does, because, you know, science and stuff.

>he thinks analytic philosophy is just Craigian word games.

>god doesn't change
>changes his mind about killing Moses
>changes his mind about killing israelites
>changes his mind about various mosaic laws as Jesus

Is this bait? William Lane Craig is a minor philosopher whose only relevant contribution to philosophy is some obscure work in philosophy of time, that's rarely cited and heavily criticized.

The guy is small time, nowhere near "greatest philosopher of all time", where the fuck did you get that? He's not even big time among christian philosophers.

And oral debates are largely irrelevant in the academia, specially when he mostly debates with people who aren't even philosophers.

Craigcucks are fucking retarded.

The prime mover isn't a sound argument, try again

>no afterlife in Judaism
What is the Book of Enoch?

Shelly Kagan wiped the floor with your meme """philosopher"""

Yes, hell does exist. The purpose of sin in our world is to essentially make us so miserable in our lives is that when we die and go to hell we won't be able to tell the fucking difference.

Why does God give only a limited time to accept him in one's soul? If the choice has to ve done while one lives it makes thing pretty stupid.
>oh you didn't choose to accept me, here, hell for eternity to you

Wouldn't the better way of dealing with things be that you give the souls a chance anyway even if they didn't accept God during their lifetime and only assign them to some correctional plane of existence if the sin particularly bad?

>the OT holds any philosofical weight whatsoever
it is a collection of myths,dont take it as scientific proof

Well your precious Craig certainly upholds it.

I'd imagine the whatever torture in Hell would lose its edge after the first couple of years.

>What is hell like? Does it exist?

Whatever you hate most I suppose. Two most common theories are "void of isolation" and "burning fire."

>There is no solid agreement on what evil means to God, what a sin is, or even why God would *need* (as if God """needs""" to do anything, lel) to punish sinners
>wat, I just pointed out a perfect, "unchangeable" (this by the way implies he is not perfect nor omnipotent) has changed.

Where's a prophet of Ba'al when you need one?

youtube.com/watch?v=H0mScGJtnB4

I dunno but if you believe in a place of eternal maximal suffering that is easy to fall into and then you go and have children you are a massive prick.

im not that poster

Hell is not a place.
It's the feeling of complete absence of God.

t. Orthodox

then what are we arguing about? And who else supports your view in your camp? Cathars?

If you have children without ensuring their eternal salvation, you are a massive prick.

However, if said children do not reach their individual age of accountability and die, they go to heaven, not to hell.

>Where's a prophet of Ba'al when you need one?

Lying face down in the river with their throats slit.

>I don't believe in Cause and Effect, the post.

I thought the Orthodox concept of hell was feeling God's wrath, and the Catholic one was absence of God.

Yeah, except that it does.

Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”