Have we got any clue, when humans archived behavioral modernity? What were the stages of it?

For example in their language there is no recursion, and the don't know numerals other than one, two and many.

This is something inherent to the people or the language?

>writing
Vinca, Indus Valley, China, Sumer, Egypt, Rapa Nui, Mexico, Andes.

Well, missionaries weren't able to teach them it.

There is a lot of overlap there. Only two discrete origins, one somewhere in the Middle East for Eurasia, and one somewhere in the Andes for the Americas; and the rest are adopted or invented after existing examples were seen.

Maybe they invented a third one in Rapa Nui.

Sure:

1)Mesopotamia, Sumerian (cuneiform) around 3500 bc

2) Egyptian hieroglyphs 3100 bc

3)Indus valley script 3000-2500 bc (Maybe)

4)Minoan hieroglyphs (2000 bc) and later Linear A (1750 bc)

5)China around 1200-1050 bc

6)Mesoamerica, Maya script 3rd century bc

So Piraha are behaviorally modern humans.

>1)Mesopotamia, Sumerian (cuneiform) around 3500 bc

>6)Mesoamerica, Maya script 3rd century bc

These are the ones that were invented. About 3,000 years apart after about 40,000 years of independent development of the underlying societies.

Hey stupid retard! (not him)

Chinese script was developed independently, so was Indus script (if it was writing) and probably Egyptian as well.

What about Vinca script invested by Serbs?

Invented by them after seeing written language already.

Are you soft in the head?

Chinese script has absolutely nothing to do with cuneiform or other previous Eurasian scripts, so that's 3 for sure, NO CONTEST.

Same thing goes for Egyptian, Egyptian hieroglyphs and Sumerian cuneiform have absolutely nothing to do with eachother

It wouldn't make sense for Egyptians to adopt writing and not Levantines or Anatolians who are much closer to Sumeria than Egypt but only adopted it like a 1000 years later than Egypt.

And also, they don't look anything at all.

Says who, Egypt was divided by 2000 kilometers of Egypt from Sumeria, and clearly Levantine and Anatolians didn't adopt writing until much later than Egyptians, despite them being civilized too and much closer to Sumeria, but of course you Mexican retard ignore history completely and just wanna spout your uneducated "opinions", fuck off, you're insufferable

Same thing for Chinese of course which was like 5000 kilometers apart from Sumerians.

Vinca script is oldest. Scientist debate if is musical notes or writing.

You can perform the same searches as me if you like - there are two inventions for certain, Sumeria and Mesoamerica, and historians argue over the rest.

Linear A is definitely based on an earlier system, some claim Egyptian writing but based on the shapes of the letters and the fact that Linear A is a syllabary, it was more likely inspired by the Vinca syllabary.

Based on the number of symbols it's pretty clearly a syllabary.

Trust me child, I knew much more about the ancient world than you, your research are worth 0, you clearly can't bring any good arguments before me, be gone and study hard before presenting your opinion to a scholar, cheers.

>Deliberate Fire + Cooking Inedible Foods
Both happened over two million years ago

Interesting observation but the there's a 3000 years gap between Vinca "script" and linear A, also Minoan hieroglyphs predate Linear A

There's a gap between the last known use of Vinca symbols and the Minoans, but the symbol shapes are so similar and the fact that Linear A is syllabic while both the systems the Minoans could have learned from (Egypt and Sumer) were logographic are both suggestive. It's unlikely we'll ever know for sure, tho.

We both have access to the same internet.

Searching for the history of writing in any search engine reveals that historians agree on TWO discrete origins of written language, and argue over the rest.

Can a scholar like yourself provide me with the links to scholarly papers on the subject that prove the other ones are not argued over by historians?

First give me your papers, your claims are outlandish and baffling.

I'm not a scholar. I don't have any papers, only the results from searching for the history of writing in various online sources. They all agree on TWO discrete origins, and some are certain about the other ones, and others are not. There is an argument among historians.

You are a scholar. You have a link ready now that proves your position that writing was invented a half-dozen or more times. Are you holding out on me until I provide a paper? I don't have a paper to provide. I can go search for some, but it won't be good enough unless it's the one you're reading from right now.

>I'm talking fully and completely out of my ass
whoah who could have guessed

there are arguments among historians over whether the earth is 6000 years old or not too, that doesn't make your claim not absurd or not fly in the face of evidence & logic. burden of proof is on you to post these miraculous online sources of yours.

400,000 years ago, Peking Man.

That's still a controversial conclusion. Everett himself has gone back and forth on whether there's recursion or not (something he's even said that there is some, but it doesn't count). For years, he's made the Piraha out to be special to prove his own points, and it's only been recently that people have started checking.

I'm reading from sources available to both of us. The internet reveals that there is no real debate over the invention TWO writing systems, and there is a debate over the rest. You're withholding information you say you have about the other inventions of writing, or you have one particular link in mind and are sitting on it.

Should I rely on the authority of an user who claims to be a vague, generic scholar? I wouldn't have to if user provided the link.

>The internet reveals that there is no real debate over the invention TWO writing systems

Cringe, and he's not me.

It's also important to understand that even IF their language does not have grammatical recursion, they are still perfectly capable of parsing and uttering recursive sentences, they just have to "spell it out" longform instead of using a grammatical shortcut.

The sources all agree on two. Any random source I find will show three or more, but they all agree on only two, Sumerian and Mesoamerican.

user has sources that show definitively that it's three or more, but they don't want to post them.

>The sources all agree on two

Repeating this bullshit won't make it true.

I don't know if he thinks it's bullshit. It seems like he genuinely doesn't understand how scholarship works.

Every result I find agrees on only two certain inventions of language. That is the result of quick searchings during this exchange. Nowhere I've found disagrees that Sumerian and Mesoamericans invented language. Some also state that these are the only certainly certain ones, and some have one or more other certain inventions.

Show me the meta-study that found that they tend to agree on three or more. Since you are winning this argument with your superior qualifications, I assume you can find this. Or we're just dueling anecdotes, and lurkers can do their own searches on the internet. Maybe all your references to how more authoritative you are will convince them that one of the results is correct, and maybe it will be the study or paper you like.

Here's a paper which talks about writing being developed independently in China, 2 times in Mesoamerican (Olmecs and Maya), in Sumeria and it implies it was independently discovered in Egypt too.

It's not about authority.

The sole fact that you think Sumerians could somehow have had any influence on bronze age Chinese's society tells me you don't know anything about those societies in the first place, there is no way China and Sumerians traded directly, and it's very likely Chinese oracle bone script derived from early neolithic writings/proto writing, this paper talks about it.

academia.edu/4745744/The_Origins_of_Chinese_Writing_the_Neolithic_Evidence

paper

connect to download? can't right now

I take your word that it is a solid paper.

Which would you say are the least contentious inventions of writing?