Just realized I'll have to cash out to USD come tax season

>cashing out of crypto
HAHA! Good luck, you literally can't. I made a thread about it the other day and people couldn't answer how you withrdraw it, they just kept saying shit like bitcoin credit cards and shit.

Crypto is worthless because you can't cash out without meeting someone in person in a dark alley who agrees to buy, at less than the market value.

there is like a million crypto ccs in the works

all scams. last summer a bunch of people were trading on some popular platform, then one day the site just went down and the owner took all their money and coins. Whoever he is, he is very rich now

Jokes on them.

I haven't worked all year and I only made 25k with crypto so I'm still in the poverty bracket pretty much

You do realise u can seel btc for usd or any other fiat and have it transferred to your bank account.

Youre retarded...

Are you retarded?
I send my coins to kraken, sell for EURO, sepa to my bank.

This has to be bait

>wanted to buy an $800 suit last week with some of my gains
>go to closest bitcoin atm
>just moved to a new city and the new atm is in some redneck general store
>1.5% fee (including spread), instantly spits out $800 as soon as I send the transaction
>last atm I used had like a 10% fee (including spread) and took 10 mins to pay me
>it's easy as hell to cash out now

thats not even including all the times I've sold btc on coinbase and had it in my bank account 1-2 days later. people on here really think it's difficult to cash out? I guess if you're under 18 it might be.

you gullible retard, kraken is a scam. They steal your money and your bank information and you won't ever see the money you try to get from selling your coins.

There is literally no way to transfer bitcoins to your bank account. There are no bitcoin banks, except for "bitcoin banks" which are actually just scams. Bet you never even tried to get actual money out of it.

what even the actual fuck OP you are retarded as fuck how do you even get out of bed in the morning. You pay taxes AFTER cashing out. So don't cash out until you have the types of gains you want, and then you pay taxes on those gains when you cash out. To anyone posting or lurking itt seriously actually do 5 seconds of research, look up the bitcoin tax forms and protocols and realize it's when you REALIZE your gains into USD (not usdt) and back into your bank account do you pay taxes. This is also why it's recommended that you hold for at least one year, so that you don't pay short capital gains tax.

bait confirmed

kys faggot

buy gold you retards

I'll take that as a no. You think you can cash out, but you just haven't yet. Go ahead, try.

you bought into a scam

Holy fuck you're dumb

>every trade is a taxable transaction

But it's not user.

...

what the hell are you talking about?

support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1148716-payment-methods-for-us-customers
>You can withdraw USD from your Coinbase USD wallet directly to your linked bank account (see linking instructions above), or via a bank wire. You can also place a sell order, with USD proceeds paid to your linked bank or PayPal account.

support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2109597-buy-sell-bank-transfer-fees
>1.49% fee for transfer to bank account

what's the issue here?

Its the taxes after which is the pain in the ass

Yeah, very true op. Same thing happens to me every year with home ownership. I have to sell my car and buy it back too.
Basically every April 15th I am homeless and carless with $0USD in the bank so the feds can inspect it. Sad but that's life

any actual sources for that? no? thought so

It can take them like 5 years sometimes. You're probably not out of the woods yet. If they come, they'll literally be like:
>we thing you're guilty of X, Y, & Z.
>prove us wrong with extensive documentation

you don't have to pay taxes on capital gains until they're actualized

aka you hold it in fiat.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter

Wrong. Every trade is a taxable event.
Here's an example:
Op buys 1 BTC for $1000 (this tax year) and holds till $2000. He then trades for ETH, which is valued $10 at that moment.
-> Taxable event: Taxable gains = 2k-1k=$1k.
Say ETH crashes to $5 and OP holds till the end of this tax year. OP needs to pay taxes on the 1k gain. He can then sell next year and claim a 1k loss.

If he decides to sell at $5, his net gain for this year would be $0.

see to understand how absolutely buttfucking retarded the sentiment is.

see
You don't pay until gains are actualized. Trading cryptos are "like kind" trades and even if each and every one is taxed, the gains are taxed after you are back in fiat. It's that fucking simple. Imagine what a retarded world that would be if every asset you held you had to sell and buy back every tax season. Jesus.

It's not.
I feel like newfags go through a thread like this every month.
Do your research.

>land of the free
Taxes here in Yuropoor might be brutal, but at least we dont have to deal with the "tax on every trade" bullshit

Hope the IRS likes coming through thousands of pages of bittrex orders.

i keep saying over and over that none of that shit matters until the gains are realized in real life. Imagine selling your car every fucking April or something equally as retarded. Until that money is in your bank account buying you thai ladyboys it's not taxed. Imagine how retarded that would be to have to sell your entire stack every year and buy back in. The IRS has no idea that you even have this money until you cash out.

>less than market value
Local bitcoin here is overpriced by like 25%
I could literally buy on exchanges via wire transfer and sell on local bitcoin directly for a comfy profit

>be Veeky Forumsbro
>buy high, sell low
>get audited
>irs combs through tens of thousands of trades
>turns out I lost 96% of my original investment
>they apologize
>tip me on the way out

Also, all the discussion here (I asume) is for USA taxes, everytime there is discussion about policies on the internet people forget that it varies depending on the country/state you're in

Some user might be right but he's talking about his case, not all cases

Protip: you don't have to pay taxes until you cash out

I honestly dont understand why there are threads like this. Bunch of fucking retards arguing over what uncle sam is going to do to their gains.

it da google machine....learn to da google machine. Fucking morons

first knowledgeable comment, congratulations

> send bitcoin to Coinbase
> sell for usd
> send usd to bank
> claim taxes on that usd sent to bank

Am I missing something here?

>every trade is a taxable transaction
AHAHAHAHAAA, what? that can't be right

the IRS says you're trading assets of value, so yes, he's right

I'm not going to spoonfeed you, but you're wrong and when you realize it, you'll be kicking yourself.

i'm not paying taxes until they politely ask me to

does the btc atm need id?
how do you transfer the btc to it?

as far as i know this is the process

No... no he's right. He's completely right. The IRS already undermined us. They already have the laws written out. This is all a joke, a big fucking joke. I'm going to kill myself.

>investopedia.com/university/definitive-bitcoin-tax-guide-dont-let-irs-snow-you/
>thebalance.com/how-bitcoins-are-taxed-3192871
>en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tax_compliance#Are_my_bitcoins_taxed_as_income.2C_or_as_capital_gains.3F

I'm not a burger. I just have to pay 20% income tax on capital gains.

There is literally a "withdraw via SEPA" button on bitstamp. Are you fucking retarded?

Each individual coin is cap gains.

I can just self report my income. At most they're gonna look that it corresponds with numbers in my bank account.
Doubt they can or are gonna ask exchanges for my individual transactions.

They keep track of how long you've had the bitcoins and tax you based on how long you've had them. Read the articles I posted, man.

you keep backpedaling like a true faggot

The IRS is going to fuck you. You're playing with fire.

Each trade is taxable but usually trades are like for like so honestly just keep track of fiat in and fiat out and that should be enough

not how it works here
I'm a europoor
>implying I know anything about taxes more so IRS boogieman

+1 why the fuck would they tax you on anything except btc to usd when you cash out. They don't do this on regular stocks if you hold in stock and not usd.

Thats not how it works retard.

in the USA it's considered trading property, which is taxable. Their logic is: since you're living in our country, you owe us for it.

So crypto is a european thing... I get it now, I mean what. American culture is all about "Hard Workers". Table builders and canadian plumbers. This is just another way they're trying to weed out the freeloaders.
>drain the swamp

Because stocks only trade in fiat pairs. You can't trade a stock directly for another stock.

This is the confusing part for me. Crypto includes currencies, and AFAIK taxation for trading currencies (like Forex) only includes ordinary gains and losses -- no capital gains or losses.

The IRS classifies all crypto as tradable assets and thus under the purview of capital gains tax.

let me elaborate
>you give your neighbor lawnmower
>in return, he gives you a few lbs of beef
>you are supposed to calculate the value of the beef and pay tax
>he is supposed to calculate the value of the lawnmower and pay tax

None if that is traceable. But, you're SUPPOSED to report in on your returns. Crypto, on the other hand, is hooked right up to your social security number. If not that, your bank account. They are already reporting them for you.

What's your opinion on bitcoin.tax? Is it a good way to calculate all this shit? I've never paid taxes before, but I'm going to have to next year.

you cash out the exact number of bitcoin to pay, retard

Until you finally do report your income, expose yourself for having traded for years without telling them in your transaction logs, and get fucked for trying to pay capital gains instead of income tax rates.

They don't give a shit if it inconveniences you to have to withdraw to pay taxes. Like kind transactions only cover some very specific pieces of property, not stocks or securities. And eventually the exchanges that take your info will be sending it to the IRS themselves.

>Say ETH crashes to $5 and OP holds till the end of this tax year. OP needs to pay taxes on the 1k gain. He can then sell next year and claim a 1k loss.

I'm pretty that if I bought the ETH at $10 and sold at $5, that loss would offset my BTC gains.

Read everything I wrote.
Unless you realize that loss during the current tax year, you'll be paying taxes. That's what I said.

>in return, he gives you a few lbs of beef
>you are supposed to calculate the value of the beef and pay tax

So that's why everyone was wanting to see Trump's tax returns, they want to see how much he paid for that side of beef.

Looks like it could help, this is assuming you're making enough to cover your ass in the first place. You're just paying them to do what you could be doing manually every time you trade.

After listening to a few of his old lectures, he's totally fucked by the IRS himself... but, he has worked out deals and contracts that let him walk around, while still owing them tons of money. Worked up a credit score, passed the debt to his descendants, and has enough assets that the IRS would be able to take and re-sell if he ever fails to meet their needs. He's got rich parents, though. Lots of family members that know people who know people. Lord knows it's all about the cool kids vs nerds, even that high up the ladder.

I understand, I'm saying that I could sell at $5(taxable transaction), then buy them back immediately, to not have to pay a big chunk in taxes.

Fuck it my plan is to make 7 figures then move to an Asian shithole. This country never did anything for me, I'd rather go live like a king in a jungle palace somewhere and spend the rest of my life riding mopeds, fishing, going on trips to Japan, and eating dog

If you sell BTC for an alt coin, that's a taxable event. So say you sell $10k worth of Bitcoin for $10k altcoin, and that altcoin goes to $1k, boy are you fucked, should have set aside 20-30% or so for taxes.

I actually used my crypto gainz to pay my income tax for 2016

yes I know I have to pay taxes on in next year, still it helped.

AHAHAHA you guys are literally morons.
You only pay taxes when you cash out. Bitcoins etc are literally virtual play money, you can't apply taxes to fake money.

By the way I dont think the taxman would like to read through the daily thousands trades I do with my bots.

Yea im pretty sure u can avoid transaction taxes simply because its not fiat AND crypto is on an anonymous blockchain. Unless the IRS is able to retrieve each and every blockchain transaction, they dont kno shit.

They can however tax u when u cash out.

>It can take 5 years
Fucking retard. There's a statute of limitations. They have like 3 years or something.

And for the last fucking time, there is no proof for anonymous crypto that gets traded in russia and other shit. There is no "yeah they know. they're gonna get you" shit. Nothing. The system was intended to be wholly anonymous (assuming you are doing it right. Shapeshift, DEXs, etc.) and it works.

This as well.

I have made literally hundreds of thousands of trades on over 15 different exchanges daily for years at this point.

Nobody, absolutely nobody in the world has the fucking time to read through all that shit or access to old, destroyed exchanges and new ones way out in Russia and other shady places or a way to deal with things like Shapeshift.

There is no fucking way to prove or even suggest that I did it. That's it.

>trade $100k of bitcoin for shitcoin
>owe tax on $90k
>shitcoin drops 90%
>you literally cannot pay the tax

these situations are why you shouldnt take the law too seriously. you can go to jail without ever making a profit.

holy fuck do you retards not understand capital gains.

It's as simple as w/e you bought in for example 5k you make 20k, you made 15k in capital gains and you get taxed w/e high ass amount and you're good.

If each trade being a taxable event is true, then i can't wait to plop down the encyclopedia series of my trades onto the tax man's desk and tell him to get to work.

U only pay cgt when gains are realized. So no you don't have too

bitcoin.tax

it's a url. They do crypto trade tax prep shit for cheap.

First few hundred trades free or something.

Agreed, CG is simple, but if you fuck up and sell your altcoin gains for another altcoin and lose it all, you're royally fucked because you still owe the gains on the last trade and I bet alot of crypto people are not setting aside money for those events.

Do people fall for this scam?

unless you realize the loss during the same tax year, assuming your gains are short term capital gains.

If you lose your long term gains, you're fucked if you can't pay your taxes.

I can't be fucked to care.
I don't recognize the powers of the state.
Bitcoin is my property.

The govt just wants to kill everyone. They can barely clarify anything.

Only the idiots that think they need it but I'm not retarded and claim everything as capital gains.

It's not a scam, a lot of people use it. Going to myself when tax time comes around.

Do you just sit on here all day to talk shit? How does it feel to be poor nocoiner?

Senpai, the gov don't care if you don't recognize them. They'll bend you over and go in dry until they get what they're owed.

why though? it's as simple as What you have minus what you put in out of pocket. Then you file a "Form 1040".

Too bad he can't cash out :^)

Not worrying about it. The IRS wants their money more than they want to throw you in jail. They are super accommodating as long as you're not intentionally trying to avoid taxes.

Basically play the ignorant card. I'm just paying on what I take into fiat and will settle up anything short term before long term kicks in.

I doubt the IRS wants to comb through my shit show tangle of trades to try and squeeze another couple of percent out of me and if they do I just put it on a payment plan.

this is my mindset. i already emailed the bitcoin tax guys trying to piece it together and basically im just going to pay whatever i have to when i cash out, but not before then. beforehand would be just retarded, autistic and ridiculous.