Am i the only person who doesn't consider these men to be White supremacists...

Am i the only person who doesn't consider these men to be White supremacists, but rather the most impressive modern military warriors of Europe?

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>lost the only war they fought

You're practically begging for butthurt leftcucks to Bomber Harris your thread into oblivion, but no you are far from the only person who respected the German military under National Socialism.

>lost the only war they fought
>profoundly influenced modern US military doctrine

Tell that to France. Tell that to Englands entire expeditionary force. Tell that to Poland. Tell that to Norway. Tell that to Greece. Tell that to Yugoslavia. You know what, you tell that to the tens of millions of Russian men that died fighting them.

Four world superpowers....on three fronts to defeat them.

Think about it user. No I'm not German, I'm an historian.

Read this please. They revolutionized modern warfare, they are fathers of it.

Hey Britain and Poland, the Wehrmacht lost the only war they fought.
Feel better?

You just can't wrap your head around it can you? They fielded the finest fighting force during that war. Not a single nation on the continent of Europe won during World War II.

The United States was the only winner.

>four world superpowers
>three fronts
>historian
didn't know the USSR counted as 4 superpowers, and the eastern front as 3 fronts
how is the art history degree serving you?

>you tell that to the tens of millions of Russian men that died fighting them.
The ten of million, plus tens of millions civilians.

>not even close to being motorized
>finest force
British were at least motorized.

Oh look another tankie that thinks Russia won the war by itself.

I'm sure that German women appreciated this finest fighting force in 1945

What was so brilliant about them? People seem to be constantly jerking off to the thought of the Wehrmacht but I'd like to see some reasons why

England, France, Russia and the United States. The Western front, the Eastern front, North Africa and along the Mediterranean, primarily Italy.

Yes, Russia sacrificed the most to win that war, but they were so incompetent and so pathetic in how they used the lives of their own people. Cannon Fodder is a usable term in this regard.

>modern
They did pretty well considering their army was horse drawn and they went up against 3 superpowers at once, but I wouldn't call them the most impressive by any stretch.

>what is the spanish civil war

There's already a WWII general you can jerk off about nazis in.

They beat unprepared and poorly lead countries after signing treaties not to attack them.

What are those things they're riding on? I don't think they're horse drawn carts because I can't see a yoke or reins

They weren't white supremacists by any definition of the word.

and I'm sure that motorization proved very useful during their rapid retreat from the German advance and evacuation from Dunkirk.
:3

>Cannon Fodder
Read a book you idiot.
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=890417B7891C182BD06F8433AE488A42

>I'm an historian.
Pretty shitty one, judging by your posts senpai

The small unit tactics they pioneered are still used to this day.
youtube.com/watch?v=6yJ7VlaYwnQ

>tell that to the countries riddled with debt due to americas unregulated capitalism that because they didnt have an autistic fit, remained united after the Second World War and then on to the present

Wasn't Dunkirk a massive failure for the Germans?

Well, there are a lot of reasons why. Read a good World War 2 book not biased toward the winners. Ostkrieg by Steven Fritz is a very good one.

Or watch the whole series of this.

youtube.com/watch?v=KTTwM6pwC0U

They wiped out english and french resistance on mainland Europe in a rapid 6 week campaign. For every one German soldier that would die, it is estimated (all we can do is estimate due to the scale of the carnage) that 2-4 allied soldiers would die. There is no question who fielded the finest fighting force.

They also preformed the largest encirclement operation of all-time against the Soviets.....close to 600,000 Soviet troops were encircled...only 15,000 would make it out alive. Thats 4 entire soviet armies destroyed.


The Wehrmacht did not lose the war, Hitler did. Generals win wars, but when politicians intervene, politicians lose them.

>where did germany lose 75% of its personnel
>where did the biggest tank battle of the war, ever, take place
>where did the vast majority of germany's talented officers die
>where was the vast majority of planes, tanks destroyed
>what is literally the largest front, in any war, in history
literally the largest, most brutal front, of any war, but no, i'm sure the breakout from normandy (AFTER BAGRATION) and the liberation of france was instrumental in turning the tide against the germans

and not a tankie btw hihi

And yet they won. How did such a competent army like Wehrmacht lose against such an incompetent army?

>most impressive force
But that's not late ww1 British land army, or ww1 navy, or ww2 Air Force
>most impressive
>failed the most of any nations army to protect their women and children from the enemy which is the primary reason for an army

>The Wehrmacht did not lose the war,
Is this what victory looks like?

>but when politicians intervene
Give me an example. Any one you will list came from an OBK/OBH general and not Hitler.
Apart, obviously, from the genesis of the campaigns you are jacking off over.

I'm sure motorization would have helped the poor Germans escape Russian encirclement.
But then again, it might not have mattered, no oil anyway due to shit-tier diplomacy and navy (and the failures of the army later on, of course).

>it matters how many Russians you kill rather than if you stop their rape of your women

I have read many books sir. There is no question about it, the Russians would use their men with reckless abandon, and if they retreated, they would use draconian tactics without any regard for their own countrymen.

Russian troops had a choice between the bullets of the Germans or the bullets of their own countrymen.

All I'm doing is stating facts sir. You haven't stated any, so fuck off.

>muh hooman waves!!!

No, hitler let them escape. Again, the Wehrmacht did not lose the war...Hitler did.

>Tell that to...Blah-blah-blah
their tactic was "blindside them, knocking them out of commission before they could switch to a full wartime footing"

As soon as the other powers shifted their economies from civilian to military production, Germany was toast

>Four world superpowers....on three fronts to defeat them.
Which is more indicative of the colossal failure that was German diplomacy, plus the inane stupidity of Hitler and the High Command to think that opening up two fronts in a major war is a great idea, against a country with whom they had a non-aggression pact, no less.

>Think about it user. No I'm not German, I'm an historian.
You're a right wing apologist romanticizing zealous butchers.

They "influenced" modern doctrine by doing everything that you shouldn't do: You shouldn't over-engineer your shit. You shouldn't think that ideological puritanism is a good substitute for professionalism. You shouldn't let fat dumb bastards manage your air force. You shouldn't brutalize people in other countries who really want to ally with you, you shouldn't let your leader command one of the armies in his spare time, and sentence an entire army to die just because they couldn't capture a city which you really wanted for no good strategic reason. Not even bothering to collect intelligence on people you're about to invade is a really fucking stupid idea. Aesthetic < utility, especially when it comes to winter gear.

>enemy at the gates is a book
Consider suicide

>largest encirclement operation of all-time against
>close to 600,000
The Soviets encircled 600,000 men during the Manchurian Strategic Operation, champ.

We fucking need a ww2 general to contain all these retarded threads.

For the four time! The Wehrmacht did not lose the war...Hitler did.

He failed to heed the advice of his generals at pivotal moments causing the Wehrmacht to lose the war.

this is your home

The Japanese BTFO the Chinese and killed 14 million of them. Doesn't mean the IJA was the world's best army.

I would argue that Hitler didn't lose the war either, there just was no way they could conceivably win.

Germans made the best of the limited resources available to them and put up a truly historical showing, but even though they punched well above their weigh there was still no way they would be able to make it in the weight class they were fighting in.

God if there's an example of poetic justice in history i swear it's Battle of Berlin. The sheer thought of being defeated, humiliated and raped by the same people you thought of as subhumans must have been horrifying for Germans.
The only problem is that Russians haven't killed or raped nearly enough as they should.

That's nice, too bad none of that would have happened if they didn't have the Allies backing them up.

Then why didn't the Wehrmacht overthrow hitler

>White supremacists
>actively exterminated white people in eastern europe
Americans pls go.
>most impressive modern military
Good doctrine and strategy. But wastefully impractical technology. Wehraboos gush at them advanced tanks that could never have been produced at a necessary rate and were regardless too heavy to fulfill their purpose. Not to mention useless rocketry for the sole purpose of terrorizing British civilians.
>warriors
Oh, the romanticization of the blood and guts.

>the Russians would use their men with reckless abandon
What do you call sending million of men into Russia while still at war with Britain.
>they would use draconian tactics without any regard for their own countrymen.
Sort of like all those people hanged in Berlin right?
>Russian troops had a choice between the bullets of the Germans or the bullets of their own countrymen.
You must of read some low quality books, blocking detachments for often than not acted as collection and filtration lines, only in extreme circumstances you they act like portrayed in Enemy at the Gates and even then at the rear of the tactical zone, not the front lines.

Hitler took the initiative away from many of his generals making it so major decisions had to be approved by him. Two examples include the british "escape" from dunkirk, and the redirection of Guderian panzer group from army group center to help army group south instead of destroying the social, economic, and political capitol of the soviet union....Moscow.

There are countless other situations where Hitler would interview and cause the loss of the war.

Its called Veeky Forums

Yes, because the russians also single handedly destroyed the kriegsmarine and luftwaffe, destroyed the german industrial heartland, cracked the enigma machine, and tied down around 50% of the german army, as well as eliminated the italians from the war.

And after more than 70 years the Soviet memorials stand in Berlin as an eternal reminder of this humiliation.

German industrial production actually increased at the end of 1944.

Well, Germans weren't wrong tho. Russians are subhumans. They are basically the white version of niggers.

>Germany lacked oil because of "shit-tier" diplomacy
>Not just simple geography
It's sad how people now a days can't be objective about the Nazis and admit their strengths where they existed. To much emotional attachment to an event they have no real personal connection to.

>Muh grampa fought in the war!
and I'm sure he would appreciate your saying the people that killed his buddies and who he went through hell to defeat weren't that big of a deal.

Your hopeless, your attacks on me are worthless. You have no idea how much i have read and understand on this matter. You can keep your venomous insults sir.

The Wehrmacht was the modern day version of Hannibal

>Two examples include the british "escape" from dunkirk
Order originated from von Rundstedt.
>and the redirection of Guderian panzer group from army group center to help army group south
Jesus fucking christ, both as I expected.
That one order did come from Hitler, and considering the deployments of Soviet strengths and the slow advance of AGS it was the right choice. Read Colossus Reborn or Forgotten Battles by Glantz if you want to learn something.
Your understanding of the war is extremely shallow, and pretty much entirely wrong.

>right wing apologist romanticizing zealous butchers.
Always better than a left wing apologist romanticizing zealous butchers
>hurr Bomber Harris do it again!
>durr rape of Berlin best day of my life!

Modern Germans, emasculated and devoid of pride for all eternity come to salute the soldiers who raped and murdered their ancestors.

>Yes, because the russians also single handedly destroyed the kriegsmarine and luftwaffe
kriegsmarine was practically irrelevant, and most planes were dedicated to the east.
>destroyed the german industrial heartland
german production was at it's max in 1944, at the peak of the bombing campaigns

>Always better than a left wing apologist romanticizing zealous butchers

It also crippled german oil production, so....

So from what I understand, they were pretty decent at small unit tactics while ranging from mediocre to diabolical in just about every other respect. They over-engineered their armor to shit, made some major strategic blunders, pulled old men and boys into their ranks and ended up being out-fought and out-gunned on every single front. They started the war as a fairly modern, forward thinking army fighting against the old style French and British. It was old fighting new so it's no wonder they won. Yet the second the Allies clicked on the Germans got absolutely stomped (more than 80% of Wehrmacht casualties were during the last 2 years of the war). If an army can't adapt and evolve to meet the changing strategic requirements then it's a shit army.

And they thought that they could conquer the world. Sad!

Problem?

Hmmm, I don't believe this, ill look it up though.

Then you need a man like Erich von Manstein.

No, because China was not England, France, Russia and the United States...all fully industrialized world powers.

I see where your coming from, towards the end there was no way to win. But at the start they could have won, speed was essential though. Hitler would ruin that though with stupid interventions and stupid decisions, disregarding his generals advice.

they were German civilians, drafted into the military to fight for their country. Don't confuse 10% of Himmlers death squads with the entirety of the Wehrmacht.

yeah yeah just write your username and I'll check your comments on /r/history

No
>In 4th wheraboo
Fuck off, the Germans fought like hell. Soviets did too, and they got extremely lucky that deep battle broke the blitzkrieg at the last moment.

Not really better or worse, both are distasteful and fall into the realm of mental imbalance.

No, we can debate this without insulting each other. I just have different views then the main stream, biased history books written by the winners...we all know history is written by the victors.

>He doesn't want to bang slav women
Ha, Queer.

>at the last moment.
Soviet resistance in 1941 and 1942 was anti-Deep Battle. It was as shallow as you can get.

Careful driving that jeep there, boyo. It'd be a shame if something happened.

>Your hopeless, your attacks on me are worthless. You have no idea how much i have read and understand on this matter. You can keep your venomous insults sir.
Would you say that you are enlightened by your own intelligence?

>The Wehrmacht was the modern day version of Hannibal
The Wehrmacht was the result of years of the German government over-investing in its military, spending way beyond their means to the point where they were overheating their economy, and they had to invade just to keep their economy afloat.

so yes, this way of doing things does produce impressive initial results, especially when you start swinging that army at countries which are still primarily making investments in its civilian sector and trying to pull their economies out of depression. But its not sustainable and it's not a winning strategy, and that's what Hannibal and his precious elephants had to learn the hard way.

> an army can't adapt and evolve to meet the changing strategic requirements then it's a shit army.
It's not the army's fault when industrial capacity can't keep up with pace of strategic shift.

>we all know history is written by the victors.
The why is it called the Eastern Front?
The German view on the German-Soviet aspects of WW2 was the dominate view until the late 1990s, and still persists until today.
Mostly due to lack of access to Soviet sources with has been mostly rectified by people like Glantz.
>No, we can debate this without insulting each other
Oh, fuck you jackass.
>I just have different views then the main stream
Ha, its just about as mainstream (i.e. pop culture) as you can get.

>The Wehrmacht was the modern day version of Hannibal

Hahaha and how is that supposed to mean anything apart from clearly identifying them as losers?

Hey don't compare Hannibal and the Wehrmacht. Hannibal was one man going deep into a hyper militarized state with minimal support from his stupid merchant kingdom government. The Wehrmacht didn't have such excuses.

The Soviet Union first used deep battle as a primary strategy in Stalingrad as far i know.

I have a strong bias against leftists as they are the dominant cultural force in our society, and until that is reversed I will continue to support the right.

I came to my senses when, in order to "trigger" wehraboos, I saved a blurry photograph of a young German woman sucking some crusty GI's wormy dick surrounded by a crowd of soldiers, and immediately felt disgusted with myself.

It is the army's fault that it wasted industrial capacity on white elephants and decided not to standardise equipment further squandering limited industrial capacity.

>I'm an historian
>an historian
>an

Good point. I stand corrected.

>I came to my senses when, in order to "trigger" wehraboos, I saved a blurry photograph of a young German woman sucking some crusty GI's wormy dick surrounded by a crowd of soldiers, and immediately felt disgusted with myself.
You have absolutely nobody to blame for this shit but yourself faggot. Try turning off the porn box and going outside once in a while instead of scapegoating society for your failings as a person.

The humiliation was so strong that even 70 years later nazi monkeys are still mad and making pathetic excuses.

Nazism has been dealt with decisively and brutally, with moans of German women. The only thing that's left is bitching and complaining while new generations of German women open their hearts and legs for new conquerors.

There is no doubting that the Russians won that war. But i believe that if the full force of the Wehrmacht was unleashed on Russia they would have easily been destroyed. Thus making the Wehrmacht the better fighting force.

Check this out user, its pretty well made.

youtube.com/watch?v=KTTwM6pwC0U&t=11s

You not getting the point of this thread user.

I disagree user, but World War II events are always highly debatable and fun to discuss. I think his redirection did not allow for enough time to destroy moscow, thus the Russian winter would defeat the Wehrmacht before they could get there, for it would take a lot of time for the Germans to complete the encirclement at kiev.

I also think hitler was hoping for an alliance with England, and massacring a bunch of english troops on a beach was not the best idea to attain that.

Well, Germans killed and murdered them too, this is war.

I see where your coming from, but man they achieved a lot of impressive victories during that war. There is something about them...there uniforms, their unity, their rise from a shitty european economy to a global powerhouse in just a few decades and the blitzkrieg. I think its far to say that they are pretty damn impressive and fun to discuss.

Lol, they almost did.

Absolutely, i respect all the men that died during this war. Im just angry at the soviets for their treatment of their own people. Not to mention the fact that Europe would be a lot stronger today if Hitler won.

He's a historian not a autistic English teacher. Make yourself an hero , user.

Your second point is very eye opening too me. Ive read this as well, it seems as though they had to launch their invasions and stand firm against the global power structure. It was one hell of a raid!

They remind me so much of Hannibal during his fight against Rome.

Very well said, but i mean the demonization of the Wehrmacht as white supremacists monsters in books and movies thought the previous decade, when these men really were just young german men fighting for their people and country.

they tried. fucker had the devil's own luck

Little did they know but Nazis engineered an entire stock of fertile. healthy German women just for Soviets, as a sort of victory prize. Pic related were specifically trained to be taken by horny Siberians.

>Lol, they almost did.
Number of World powers defeated by the Axis Powers: 1 (France)
Yeah they were so close.

>it seems as though they had to launch their invasions and stand firm against the global power structure.
And it's exactly that attitude why they ended up surrounded by bitter enemies who hate them, having gotten totally BTFO on the diplomatic front and basically uniting everyone in the world against them except for a few clinger-on states who weren't in much of a position to contribute much to the war effort.

They went picking fights everywhere they went and then cried like they were the victims when it became a beat-down

>It was one hell of a raid!
They made a lot of bone-headed decisions which bit them in the ass hard later in the war.

Oh and i'm sure our colored bros got some of dat masterrace pussy, it was a chance of a lifetime after all

>wooow it took four of you to defeat me

History is pronounced "Istory" if you're British so saying "I'm an historian" is actually 100% grammatically correct and in fact the proper way to pronounce it.

I know many GIs followed the Soviet example too! It was all one big race for nazi pussy from both sides, i think the Soviets won by a fair margine, altough the GIs weren't to be underestimated either.